Do you think Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street will lose his position ?

[xanzul]

For me it was the whole "you guys are just mad because we made healing harder" during Cata beta/live. Um. No. You just made healing "harder" in a stupid way (making heals very small and expensive while having raid bosses smack the raid with unavoidable AOE without giving any interesting mechanics for managing mana).

He was right though. Maybe if healers had actually contributed more than whiny temper tantrums he would have had more to say and more importantly he would have possibly listened.

[Deleted]

What on earth are you talking about? You do realize those 12 million subscribers weren't all the same people right? In fact Blizzard has stated more than once that there are at minimum at least 20 million people who have played Wow at one point or another. Wow has had substantial subscriber churn for its entire run and yes that includes the sacred and holy TBC that can do no wrong. Wow was the first and only mmo so far to actually hit market saturation and it was clear as day it wasn't going to be sustainable. Wrath launched with 11.5 million subscribers and stagnated for more than 2 years and only hit 12 million because of Wrath's launch in China shortly before Cata was released in NA/EU regions. The only reason subscriptions kept rising or at least stayed somewhat stable is because there were more people coming to the game than leaving it. That's it. Nothing more nothing less. It doesn't mean TBC was the holy grail of gaming any more than Wrath was. Both expansions saw many many many many different people coming and going despite both expansions being polar opposites of each other.

There is absolutely nothing Blizzard could have done to prevent subscriber loss. They can't make people stay and they certainly can't get more customers because those are limited by the fact mmo gaming is a very niche market. It isn't like they are Mcdonalds and can post up a new commercial and create new customers. It just doesn't work that way. Anyone who was going to play Wow has played Wow. The game is old, the market has changed and more importantly the players have changed.

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He controls NOTHING. He reports directly to Chilten and Morhaime who are his superiors. Nothing gets done in Wow without their go ahead.

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Oh I think we all get what people are saying in these forums and in this thread specifically. That doesn't change the fact most of them are some of the most uneducated, spiteful, hateful whiny condescending jackasses I have ever seen on the internet in my entire 20 years I have been online. No matter how much bile and vitriol you people spew it doesn't change the fact that GC can only do what the GAME DIRECTOR tells him to do. You do know what a game director is don't you? GC's boss. Really not a hard concept to grasp.

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That is all well and good except for the fact these forums and the official forums have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that many players quit for a huge variety of reasons, many of them contradicting each other. There is no clear cut consensus on what is "wrong" with the game nor is there a consensus on how to "fix" the game. People need to just accept they aren't going to get away with pinning their pet issues on a single Blizzard employee without being called out for the ignorant blowhards they are.

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Well good thing there are several lead designers already. Ghostcrawler is simply the lead systems designer with other employees heading up other aspects of the game.

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Again good thing GC is lead systems designer. He has nothing to do with developing raids. Good job in spotlighting how ignorant this player base is though. I don't think anyone who can't comprehend what his actual job is should even attempt discussing whether he is doing a good job or not.

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Stating what GC's actual position is and what his actual responsibilities are isn't fanboyism. It is reality. Get over yourself. Wow is wildly successful even despite heavy subscription losses and has proven to shareholders it is sustainable long into the future. No one is going to get fired over sub losses. Sorry.

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So why is all the hate and vitriol directed at Ghostcrawler? And don't even try claiming it is because he is the "face" of Blizzard and Wow because his superiors Chilten and Morhaime are just as well known as he is if not more so and they are actually far more responsible for the direction of the game than any lead designer. The simple fact of the matter is most of the people who bitch and whine about this game have no god damn idea what they are talking about and just attack any employee they see regardless of what their job function is in relation to whatever their complaint is.

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I know the haters can't wait for the day Blizzard falls to its knees in financial ruin for daring slight those who worship TBC as a religion but that day won't be coming anytime soon. Wow is going to be around for at least another decade if not longer.

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Sorry stating reality doesn't make anyone an apologist anymore than it makes them fanboys. Get the fuck over yourself.

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Blizzard is hiring. Why don't you apply and show them how its done? Sadly most of you armchair developers probably aren't even qualified to be janitors for Blizzard much less develop games for them. I don't have a problem with those who disagree with GC but to claim he doesn't understand the game or any aspect of classes is incredibly arrogant to say and simply untrue.

So then. The decline is sub is nothing to do with Blizzard policies or design its purely because the game is old. There is no point in advertising - its just doesn't work that way. There was no way of Blizzard to keep people or at least slow the loss by making a product rewarding and interesting because people have changed.
You'd better ring Blizzard quick and tell them they are wasting their time.

You bias is so bad you have resorted to posting utter nonsense.

[xanzul]

Jay Wilson didn't have misfortune, that implies bad luck. Jay Wilson acted like a child and made inappropriate statements about someone in a public venue.
And he didn't even get fired or disciplined in any way.

GC on the other hand hasn't really done anything wrong. Sure the game seems to be making bad decision after bad decision after bad decision, but that isn't on GC. It is a team effort and we only see a teeny tiny fraction of the process. GC just gets a lot of hate because his comments are a little too honest for some people to handle.

Actually the impetus of his comment about Brevik was the fact Brevik threw his own former employees under the bus and trashed them over D3. It had nothing to do with Jay Wilson himself being insulted it was the fact many D2 devs who worked on D3 were insulted. What Brevik did was far more unprofessional and uncalled for. In fact I'm certain the only reason Brevik did it was to hype up his new game because it wasn't getting enough attention on its own. Rather sickening really and I can't help but wonder if maybe Brevik and his Blizzard North crew fostered the terrible community D3 has now.

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He won't, you can tell from how cocky he is, I voted yes, but he won't. Never liked him, I hope nobodys at his bed when he dies.

He isn't remotely cocky. I think you are projecting. And really? What the fuck is wrong with you? How does ANY game design decision warrant that kind of response?

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That's not how business works, you don't pat them on the back and say "oh well, you'll get it right next time" after they have lost a company hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.

I do agree with people who say that GC isn't at fault for a variety of things he is blamed for. It's hard to pinpoint who is making the bad decisions, but it is more than just one person.

ATVI has been posting huge profits each and every quarter there have been subscriber losses. Shareholders are quite happy thank you very much. No one is getting fired.

[Madruga]

Well, for all I know, WoW is nowadays in better shape than, pretty much, always. Yeah, classic and TBC lovers, I mean it. And it also has the most features it has always had.

And Flex is actually needed for the game. There is a huge gap between LFR and Normal that too many people can't cross. Flex will do what LFR was suposed to, but failed... Be the replacement for popular 10 man raiding from WOLK era. Meaning, easier and relaxed guild and organized raiding. LFR is not guildy or organized and Normal is not easy or relaxed.

So I don't see why anyone should be fired. For amking the game the best it has always been? Oh, please.

[xanzul]

Men in much more important positions than lead systems designer were morons throughout history. That is not really an argument to assume that just because a person occupies a post, that person is qualified to occupy that post. When your subscriptions go from all time high of 12,500,000 to 7,700,000 you have to be responsible. Blaming player fatigue is lame and masks the real issue. Cataclysm could have been a lot worse if not for annual pass and scroll of resurrection. Those were desperate measures and allowed Blizzard to stop the bleeding temporarily until MOP arrived. When people got a taste of MOP the bleeding continued and accelerated.

Even as far as player relations go, GC is horrible. His tweets mocking this thread underscore it even more.

I like how people accuse GC of being arrogant and then say moronic crap like this. Hypocrite much? If GC mocks player it is because they deserve it. If Blizzard was unhappy with ANY of his comments he would stop making them. They are clearly 100% supporting him and everything he does and says. Let the implications of that sink in a little bit.

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WoW became a great game and industry leader well before GC showed up on the scene. Comparing it to other games is moot. Industry leader should not have collapsing subscriptions it is that simple. Blizzard made other mistakes as well which are beyond GC's control. If I am a new player and want to get started I have to buy Classic+BC+Wotlk Battle Chest and Stack Cata+MOP on top of it. That is for a "9 year old game" as you say. Blizzard resisted merging servers for the longest time and even now is getting ready to do it in its own way. Blizzard never wanted to merge servers not because of any technical problems (numerous other games managed it just fine) but because merging servers would have sent the signal that the game is in trouble. Well the game is in trouble.

N.B I would have never gotten my TLPD in Wrath or Grey Camel in Cata had CRZ's been implemented back then.

Blah blah blah blah blah. Do you people ever have anything new and original to say? As far as cross realm zones go, Wow is an mmo and players being around you is intended just as competition is intended. Get over it. More importantly what does this have to do with GC? Are you implying he had anything to do with its development?

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I read the whole thread, every single page and every single post. It is not "unaligned hatred", it is documented instances when GC had to reverse his smug self after his ideas blew up in his face.

I might give a fuck if you weren't being smug yourself.

[Tenjen]

insipid topic is insipid.

Whats with a lot of topics recently?

might as well make topics like "how badly shall blizzard go bankrupt?" "how horrible will be the riots when titan bombs?" "how many blackholes will rip through reality when WoW goes FTP?" "will blizz medically compensate us for the trauma of the next awful expansion?"

[briktal]

So then. The decline is sub is nothing to do with Blizzard policies or design its purely because the game is old. There is no point in advertising - its just doesn't work that way. There was no way of Blizzard to keep people or at least slow the loss by making a product rewarding and interesting because people have changed.
You'd better ring Blizzard quick and tell them they are wasting their time.

You bias is so bad you have resorted to posting utter nonsense.

It's not really crazy to look at everything and think that "if the just do x, y and z..." isn't going to bring subscriber levels back to anywhere near where they were at their peak.

[xanzul]

Who said I don't play anymore? I do play, even before that I paid off my annual pass. My contempt for MOP has not changed though. I consider it to be a failed expansion on many different levels and can't wait to see if another expansion can actually be interesting lore wise.

Why can't you people quit the game and move on? There is ZERO reason to continue playing a game when you yourself have said you have contempt for it. Most of you whiners have completely lost touch with reality.

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Why is it failed. Because it slowed the subscriber loss after Cataclysm?

Honestly, the subscriber loss after Wrath was always coming. Wrath was the peak for the game. Blizzard fucked up royally during Cata and they lost more subscribers than they should have.

This is where opinions differ, but when it comes to lore and MoP I think most people who hold contempt for Mists just hold it because they can't look past the Pandaren.

Mists' story is some of the best story telling that has been implemented in the game since Wrath. I haven't been this interested since I first stepped foot into Borean Tundra.

Anyone who was paying attention and noticed the 2 year stagnation of subscriptions during Wrath knew huge losses were coming. It should never have come as a surprise to anyone.

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But Cata dungeons were never hard. Only people who are terrible at the game think they were. Which sadly is a large portion of the player base.

I can't bring my self to do dungeons anymore. They are too easy and boring and content like that make me stop playing.

LFD couldn't guarantee the appropriate group composition nor could they even guarantee those classes even having the right spec to handle those dungeons. It wasn't that players were bad it was the fact those dungeons were designed for premade groups not pugs.

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That is really interesting. I don't know that it's possible to bully Ghostcrawler. If anything, I think GC has done his own share of bullying, especially when he has the opportunity to feel intellectually superior. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't feel sorry for him. However, I do agree that in a lot of cases the abuse of video game developers goes much too far. Vesseblah, I think you're a supporter of Ghostcrawler and a more challenging version of WoW? It's important to remember that it was fan "bullying" that caused the successful Wrath model to be abandoned.

GC has bullied no one. Again his job is to develop the game not hold your hand. If you wants certain feedback and notices certain lines of thought are preventing that he is going to shut it down immediately and get things back on track. People need to stop being butthurt over it and learn respect is a two way street. None of the harassment, insults and death threats against GC is justified and trying to defend it speaks volume about your own lack of character.

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Although I agree strongly that GC gets lots of harassment -- and I've been trying not to scapegoat him, these days, for that reason -- he's volleyed some pretty barbed insults at players who pointed out inconsistencies in design policy. The most notorious example is referenced on this page: His post defending Cataclysm dungeon difficulty (this was roughly when I left Cata, i.e. Jan 2011). It was a thinly veiled "learn to play" dismissal at a player who said LFG was too hard -- and a pretty sad one, considering Cata dungeons were tuned so poorly in 4.0 that a single idiot could wreck them with 4 good players compensating.

(edit) To be clear, I'm not trying to justify the harassment he gets. I am trying to say that no one should claim he's totally innocent of insulting and/or bad behavior.

The thing is though he isn't inconsistent or at least not to the extent people claim. Case in point someone whined that the Readiness nerf for hunters made them feel less effective in certain situations and GC had to point out and remind them that was the entire point of the change. Maybe if players put a little thought into what GC says he would seem less "inconsistent". In all honesty many of the people attempting to discuss class balance with GC have extremely limited understanding of the issues involved and probably shouldn't even attempt to contribute because all they do is muddy the waters and perpetuate ignorance and misinformation. Again case in point, all the hunter QQ on the PTR forums.

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It most certainly did not and my hope is that the developers come to this conclusion as well. I remember towards the end of cataclysm just before mists came out their was a podcast interview with ghostcrawler where he basically spent the entire interview trash talking cataclysm and maintaining that "they got it" now and mists was the result of them "getting it". Mists is a COLOSSAL failure.

Disliking design decisions doesn't make anything a failure. Mop addressed much of what people have complained about for years. Sorry you are still so butthurt over it.

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I would love to know how many people who voted "no" has someone paying their subscription for them and how many that voted "yes" pays for their own subscription.
Overall there have been great ideas in the last few expansions and there have been a lot of disappointment. I don't know what the right answer is but I miss a certain maturity, intelligence and sense of community that was the atmosphere of vanilla. The current content appeals to the instant gratification crowd. I don't think there's longevity in that direction.
I think changes are going to happen and GC will be a part of that change.

It is none of your fucking god damn business. Are you seriously implying only people who pay for their own subscription are the only ones who opinion matters? Who the fuck do you think you are? If this community has declined it is because of people like YOU.

[Osmeric]

Disliking design decisions doesn't make anything a failure. Mop addressed much of what people have complained about for years. Sorry you are still so butthurt over it.

No, what's pushing MoP toward the "failure" bucket is the rate of loss of active accounts. Sure, the game is getting old and everything, but something is really not working well here.

[xanzul]

If Wow continues to decline, Activision BLizzard will start scapegoating people, especially if the next expansion does poorly.

How many heads will roll before his, I don't know.

I don't like Ghostcrawler, but I don't play any more, so not that relevant.

No one is getting fired. Mmos are sustainable even with lees than 500k subscriptions. Wow is doing incredibly well and far better than any other mmo that is at a similar age. As long as ATVI continues posting record profits and shareholders are happy, very little is going to be done about how Blizzard Entertainment is managed.

[Stormspellz]

i would vote yes for the countless idiotic things he has said showing he doesn't really understand the game as well as he should.

[xanzul]

So then. The decline is sub is nothing to do with Blizzard policies or design its purely because the game is old. There is no point in advertising - its just doesn't work that way. There was no way of Blizzard to keep people or at least slow the loss by making a product rewarding and interesting because people have changed.
You'd better ring Blizzard quick and tell them they are wasting their time.

You bias is so bad you have resorted to posting utter nonsense.

Millions of players have quit for millions of reasons and I know this is hard to comprehend but many of those reason contradict each other and some of them don't even have anything to do with the design decisions made in Wow. I think it is you who is biased.

[blackblade]

I don't think it's really anyone's fault. The engine simply isn't flexible enough to provide a game that keeps up to par with current gen graphics, workflow, and new gameplay concepts. They do an excellent job at working with what they have, but the 10-year-old framework the game is built on is probably restricting their ability to be as agile with new concepts as they want to be.

They're doing a great job at changing shit up in this xpac, specifically in the way we interact with the world. Cata failed pretty hardcore when it came to new mechanisms for delivering content (outside of the old world overhaul that really only targeted a small chunk of the playerbase.) There's more coming down the pipe to help break people out of the mold. I'm pretty optimistic about flex raiding from a casual standpoint, the tyranny of needing exactly 10 players to a raid will help less progressed guild build a core team, and encourage new blood to try something harder than LFR in a way that should be relatively drama-free.

When it comes down to it, MoP has done a pretty good job at establishing new mechanics that, if blizzard is wise, will likely make the successor to MoP phenomenal when all these loosely implemented concepts have been perfected. (Item Upgrades, Weekly quests ala BFB, Dynamic events/sandbox zones ala Timeless isles, Omni-tappable rarespawns, individual loot, item upgrades)

People give ghostcrawler too much credit. He's one man. he might have a big say in the mechanics and design, but ultimately, he's a mouthpiece. He has an entire staff of other people who all have some say in the design and development process. He isn't some divine being that says "Let there be LFR" and then there was LFR. The concept of LFR/LFD/Pet Battles/SomeOtherThingEveryoneLikesToBlameGCForThatCausedThemToUnsub was probably coined well in advance, and was likely pulled into the dev cycle because he and his team agreed that it would be a good addition to the game or a good solution for a pain point they were trying to solve.

[xanzul]

Well, for all I know, WoW is nowadays in better shape than, pretty much, always. Yeah, classic and TBC lovers, I mean it. And it also has the most features it has always had.

And Flex is actually needed for the game. There is a huge gap between LFR and Normal that too many people can't cross. Flex will do what LFR was suposed to, but failed... Be the replacement for popular 10 man raiding from WOLK era. Meaning, easier and relaxed guild and organized raiding. LFR is not guildy or organized and Normal is not easy or relaxed.

So I don't see why anyone should be fired. For amking the game the best it has always been? Oh, please.

What I find to be absolutely hilarious is that all the people who whine about flex raiding are generally the same people who have done nothing but bitch and whine about shared lockouts and the death of 10 man pug raiding that they enjoyed in Wrath.

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No, what's pushing MoP toward the "failure" bucket is the rate of loss of active accounts. Sure, the game is getting old and everything, but something is really not working well here.

Implying it is possible for any mmo to prevent subscription loss. That is a pretty ignorant comment especially for you.

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i would vote yes for the countless idiotic things he has said showing he doesn't really understand the game as well as he should.

Have any examples? I dare any of you armchair developers to put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate you know and understand wow better than anyone who was actually hired to develop for Wow. All of you are full of shit.

[antelope591]

I dont think he deserves to be fired...although I dont like the approach he takes to class balance (too many rushed decisions and huge changes at once) its far from the reason the game is losing subs. As far as general gameplay/quests/raids the game's in a pretty good spot. Look at all the stuff coming in 5.4 alone and tell me how much more can they do to appease the playerbase? The game is simply old

[Archmage Alodi]

it's not gonna happen but i'll be really happy if i don't hear of this hodor anymore . most annoying person ever

[Celista]

I might be going ham on GC and forgetting his humanity. You're right. I feel kinda bad if I imagine him reading this and having hurt feelings. However, I just don't see GC--with the hubris he's displayed--being a person who would be particularly upset about negative feedback. He's even said himself that he laughs at the haters. He might be lying?

I'm sure it affects him, whether or not he admits it publicly.

it's not gonna happen but i'll be really happy if i don't hear of this hodor anymore . most annoying person ever

Do not mock the Hodor >.<

[rebecca191]

He was right though. Maybe if healers had actually contributed more than whiny temper tantrums he would have had more to say and more importantly he would have possibly listened.

Plenty of us pointed out that we enjoyed the "mana management" in vanilla or BC but not Cata, and explained why. But you've apparently decided anyone who has been vocal about not liking something in the game is a worthless human being who can do nothing but cry.

[announced]

its probly not GCs fault but a lot of the things he says make 0 sense.. trying to justify class buffs or debuffs when they clearly arent needed is lol... it leads me to believe he never actually looks at data and the casual player to see whether the nerfs or buffs would help everyone or totally destroy the spec at lower ilvls ( see mages/ fire below 520) .. the state of combat, / warriors/ boomkins/ ele shamans while trying to lvl up.

he should really just try a more diplomatic approach even if his hands are tied, because coming off as a sarcastic asshole only works when you are correct 100% of the time.

[Seezer]

its probly not GCs fault but a lot of the things he says make 0 sense.. trying to justify class buffs or debuffs when they clearly arent needed is lol... it leads me to believe he never actually looks at data and the casual player to see whether the nerfs or buffs would help everyone or totally destroy the spec at lower ilvls ( see mages/ fire below 520) .. the state of combat, / warriors/ boomkins/ ele shamans while trying to lvl up.

he should really just try a more diplomatic approach even if his hands are tied, because coming off as a sarcastic asshole only works when you are correct 100% of the time.

It's easy to sit there and be like "I dont' like what he said. He's an asshole.". When you're waay too invested in something. But you need to remember, most of what people say on the internet is 100% exaggerated. So what someone says about someone else when they're pissed off, usually isnt' true. If I were him, I wouldn't even be on twitter. He doesn't have to do that. But he does it. And people still want to be little pussy bitches about it.