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  1. #281
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMcNinja View Post
    The major and here I am going to say MAJOR difference between the GW2 and WoW shops are that most, if not all, standard real life money shop items are also obtainable in game through others means.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I shall express my opinion in the form of a little video (not my video)

    Really good video and he made some very good points.

  2. #282
    Dreadlord Espe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    Blizzard: We want you to buy our game because it's awesome and you'll need a pay a sub fee for access, upkeep and future content.
    Player: Ok.

    Blizzard: We made a new expansion, we'd like you to purchase that in order to have access to the new content. The sub fee remains the same.
    Player: Ok, sounds reasonable.

    Blizzard: To keep the integrity of the game, we won't allow name changes, pve to pvp server transfers, faction transfers, etc.
    Player: Sounds great.
    Blizzard: Wait, there's too much money to be had here, we've changed our mind. Ignore what we said previously.

    Blizzard: We've decided to release some cash-shop only items to generate more revenue. These items are not available without purchase, however, they are cosmetic only and do not affect game play.
    Player: Wait what? That doesn't sound right, I believe everything should be accessible in a pay-to-play game, but ok.

    Blizzard: We won't be putting elements in the cash shop that affect game-play.
    Player: Good. Pay-to-win, on top of a initial purchase and sub fee, is not what I signed up for.
    Blizzard: Wait, we changed our minds. We've put a decent amount of development time into making the cash shop a much bigger part of the game. We're also going to start releasing items that affect game-play. Ignore what we said previously... just keep those sub fees coming.

    Just imagine this trend by middle of next xpac. "Yes, I'd like to buy my fully-teir-geared, max-level character for $100, since it's a 'convenience feature' that helps people without time to raid."
    Exactly this. Now we're paying a sub for them to develop store-only items that they charge us more RL cash for, in order to feed back in to developing more store-only items that they charge us more RL cash for... where does it stop? The most important part of all of this? None of the items in the Blizzard store are obtainable in-game.

    In GW2 anything can be purchased from the store from in-game obtainable currency. You convert Gold > Gems and you can purchase anything from the cash shop without paying a cent of RL cash. This is, of course, on top of the fact that there is no subscription fee.

    The only reason Blizzard thinks they can get away with this is because they understand that their subscribers have invested a lot of time into their characters and guilds and the vast majority are wiling to let them take advantage of them as long as they are allowed to keep playing. As you can see here, many fanbois and apologists will even go to great lengths to defend Blizzard's obvious gouging of their playerbase. Of course, some people enjoy being taken advantage of.

    On a dead server? Pay Blizzard for a transfer or faction change. Want the best transmog? Pay Blizzard for it as it is not obtainable in game. Want the highest quality mount and pet models? Pay Blizzard. Want to level faster? Pay Blizzard. Don't have time for daily quests? Pay Blizzard. Just don't forget to pay your sub fee as well or you won't be able to log on.
    Last edited by Espe; 2013-08-02 at 09:26 PM.
    Just a few examples of typical conservatives. Read at your own risk:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    Totally cool with abortion in rape scenarios, but making it widely available or expecting employers to provide it incentivizes women to whore themselves out and creates a nuisance
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    The reason many people are poor is because they DONT save any spare money they have. They blow it on things to entertain them or make them happy

  3. #283
    Stood in the Fire
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    OMG micro transactions! wow is dying!

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by DrMcNinja View Post
    The major and here I am going to say MAJOR difference between the GW2 and WoW shops are that most, if not all, standard real life money shop items are also obtainable in game through others means.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I shall express my opinion in the form of a little video (not my video)

    Aside from his conspiracy theories and MoP hate, he touches on some valid points.

    Here's the thing. The WoW store has always been a separate entity from the actual game. Which makes sense, since all of the items were pure vanity and it's a sub based game. Every player was alerted about new store items via the Blizzard launcher. Now, think about that for a minute.

    The only reason for them to go to all the trouble to implement an in-game link between the shop and the game is largely for one of two reasons.

    1. They are planning to go free-to-play and are getting systems in place for that.
    I think we all know that's not going to happen.

    2. They're planning to bring a full blown free-to-play micro-transaction model to a game that already has a sub fee, even if it's implemented gradually.
    I think that it is painfully obvious that this is the path they are heading down and many people will probably agree with this.

    Since the cash shop's inception, they've been steadily ramping up releases of items and are now releasing items they swore they wouldn't release (game-play affecting items). I think with the in-game addition, you're going to see all kinds of content thrown behind the pay-to-use barrier. If you think it's going to stop with one little XP potion, then I really don't know what to say.

    If they're allowing you to basically purchase levels, the bridge to premium-only dungeons & raids, armor, weapons, various in-game currencies (ex: charms), etc (just like a free-to-play micro-transaction model) is right around the corner.

    I just find it hard to fathom how any WoW player in their right mind would think this way of doing business is Ok. Maybe once they start advertising "Premium Raid 001 is released! Get exclusive titles by completing this challenging vanity content! Buy access now!," and new pay-to-win items, people will start to wise up.
    Last edited by spectrefax; 2013-08-02 at 09:30 PM.

  5. #285
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    WTF do you think the monthly fee supports? It's sure as hell not all going to salaries, servers, and bandwidth.
    Swing and a miss, dude. Read that again and look at the person I quoted first, then you might realize I wasn't referencing in any way, shape, or fashion our monthly subscription fee.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    Exactly this. Now we're paying a sub for them to develop store-only items that they charge us more RL cash for, in order to feed back in to developing more store-only items that they charge us more RL cash for... where does it stop?
    Yep and the fact that WoW players not only are ok with this, but that they are embracing and encouraging it, is truly mind-blowing! /mindsplosion

    You pay for the initial game.
    You then turn around and pay for access to the game and future content development.
    You then pay full price for expansion packs.
    Then, you turn around and pay again for access to content that was developed? Content your sub fee was easily covering for years before?

    I mean, just....wow....

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    I think the problem comes when it seems like they are purposely designing stuff to look bad so people will buy transmog stuff. Also cash shop items have NO place in a sub based game. Is there another sub based game that also has a cash shop? Hell I cant even think of another sub based game. Every MMO I have played has gone free.
    Final Fantasy Reborn coming out will be sub based and *drum roll* NO CASH SHOP

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    They should drop the sub fee. The sub fee is a money grab, they've got no reason to keep it, they even take money for their account services for no other reason than to "stop you from doing it too often."
    Realm transfers I can understand...it gives people second thought from moving where there potentially the could end up with a handful of full realms and the rest end up being completely dead.

    But things like character looks, name changes, race changes...it would be awesome to have maybe have 1 free change every 6 months or 1 year.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Swing and a miss, dude. Read that again and look at the person I quoted first, then you might realize I wasn't referencing in any way, shape, or fashion our monthly subscription fee.
    The person you quoted was talking about sub fees and extra charges on things that sub fee should be paying for. I don't think you realize what you were reading and commenting on.

    The person you quoted said:
    Who would like paying someone to make something and that fee goes towards time making it and all the materials, and then get charged again for the finished product?
    We are being charged again for items we already paid for them to make with our subs.
    Which basically means "We're paying a sub fee that covers the expenses to make these items, and having them sold to us for extra."

    You replied with:
    Last I checked, you aren't paying a single extra cent for the new raid, new questing hub, new pets, new tier sets, new PvP season, new PvP gear, the legendary cape, or anything coming in 5.4. I swear you people make it sound like they're putting this stuff on the disc and then making you pay to unlock it later on. Oh wait, no, that's EA.
    Yes, people are paying extra for the new raid content to be developed (And the rest of what you said) as that's what a portion of the sub fees cover. The items in the cash shop were developed on essentially the player's dollar via their subscription fees, and they are turning around and selling it to make extra profit.

    Your subscription fee pays for access to their services and future content development (Raids and items for example).

    The subscription fee for WoW was intended for it to be profitable (They are a business after all) while keeping everyone on the same playing field, and not those who have much more disposable income to gain any sort of advantage. Whether people want to believe it or not, Pets/Mounts/Transmog Helms/XP Buffs, are all advantages over people. Yes looking pretty because you spent money is an advantage over someone when it comes to an MMORPG where more people admire the way you look than the way you play. This is common in all of these types of games, otherwise they wouldn't sell the items in this game or others.

  9. #289
    In-Game Store = possible free-to-play or at least cheaper soon. I'm ok with that.
    "It's clear this is another bash Apple thread. Such things are not conducive to a good discussion."

    WRONG! Those are the BEST discussions!

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Youarefired View Post
    In-Game Store = possible free-to-play or at least cheaper soon. I'm ok with that.
    Think of this logically, just dig deep and find the ability to follow this:

    Rift, a much smaller game went Free To Play. They didn't add a shop and then went free to play, they just went free to play.

    Alright, now think of World of Warcraft, a fairly large game at 7.7m subs at the moment. Now, stick with me here, they are adding a cash shop, and not going right to free to play. Alright so we have world of Warcraft, 7.7m players with a subscription fee AND a cash shop. Ok, with me now? Good. 7,700,000*15=$115,500,000 monthly (Not the true number, but close enough. Differences in the Asia market of course, so it might be lower than that). Alright, so we have World of Warcraft making roughly $115,500,000 a month, not including a cash shop. Now let's just assume (Because assuming is fun!) that 100,000 people bought the transmog helms at $15 each, and they only bought one. Fair number right? So 100,000*15=$1,500,000.

    Okay! So, with $115,500,000 monthly, they also made a bonus of $1,500,000 which is not reoccurring. Now, which way do you really think they will go? Do you think they will drop the sub fee for that $1,500,000 and lose $115,500,000 monthly? Or do you think they will simply keep both?

    They won't be moving to a F2P model anytime soon, they're just going to abuse the F2P shop ideas. The monthly earnings are far too large to throw away and base hopes on a cash shop. They'll go for both.

  11. #291
    The XP elixir is fine. Mounts and pets are fine. Transmog gear is fine. Anything more than that is a big no.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    The XP elixir is fine. Mounts and pets are fine. Transmog gear is fine. Anything more than that is a big no.
    In classic and burning crusade, every item the developers created was given to the players, in-game. That's what the sub fee was helping pay for. Now, that's no longer the case. They've basically said, "You need to pay for content that you were already paying for. The sub fee isn't enough anymore."

    How is a store in a pay-to-play game even remotely tolerated? Never mind that they're putting game-play affecting items in the store, even with vanity items, it shouldn't be tolerated in a pay-to-play game.
    Last edited by spectrefax; 2013-08-03 at 01:04 AM.

  13. #293
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    The XP elixir is fine. Mounts and pets are fine. Transmog gear is fine. Anything more than that is a big no.
    Don't forgot charms

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Asag View Post
    Don't forgot charms
    Who cares about lesser charms, it takes an hour at most to farm the 50 you need for the quest.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    Who cares about lesser charms, it takes an hour at most to farm the 50 you need for the quest.

    Who cares if they are selling gear

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    Who cares about lesser charms, it takes an hour at most to farm the 50 you need for the quest.
    it takes less than 10 minutes to do sethekk halls for the raven lord mount

  17. #297
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    I hate the store. I pay $15 a month, I should be able to access ALL the content. Blizzard's just compensating for it's dramatic loss of subs.

  18. #298
    2013 2nd quarter gaap WoW revenue was higher than 2012 2nd quarter WoW revenue.

    So everything works as intended: fewer subscriptions but loyal fan base gets more chances to invest in their favorite hobby.

    The rest really should stop posting about it as they are no longer fans, but quite frankly put haters...

    Battlenet Coins is already a sign Blizzard will their shop over all their Battlenet games, upcoming free to play games included.

    and thevfans will love it.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    For a subscription based game? Everything.

    Certain people are being too complacent, allowing Blizzard to do whatever they want. Its completely unacceptable for a sub based game to charge for premium content in the form of micro transactions.

    Im completely thrown back by the fact that people are ok with this.
    Blizzard can do whatever the hell they damn please at the end of the day. They are going to do the in game shop to replace the lost income from subs. Business 101 and you don't know it :P

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Mementomori1993 View Post
    Blizzard can do whatever the hell they damn please at the end of the day. They are going to do the in game shop to replace the lost income from subs. Business 101 and you don't know it :P
    It's not really business 101 at all. Business 101 would suggest improving your product to bring more people to it, and not try and squeeze out more profits form the ones you have. Cash shop is not a reliable source of money, it's a gamble however subscriptions are fairly reliable, which is what businesses want.

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