View Poll Results: Do warlocks prevent a future demon hunter class from being added?

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  • Yes

    59 37.58%
  • No

    98 62.42%
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  1. #41
    Mechagnome nightguard's Avatar
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    Plain and simple answer to this. No.
    Why?
    Because just having the name of a spell that is so called iconic doesn't mean that class is eliminated no matter what.
    Also.
    By using that logic those who want a tinker class need to stop grappling abilities from other genres and look at wow, that wishful class is split between a profession and hunter.

  2. #42
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    I honestly wish I could turn on a filter that would make it so that I do not see every new "i want a demon hunter class added" by the children that start these threads every other day.







    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  3. #43
    Mechagnome nightguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karrados View Post
    1. It's time to add another Caster Class i would say, Dk is melee only with Monk having 2/3 melee speccs and 1 healer, not Caster DPS.

    2. It's the same as the High Elf issue = There are not enough left to make up a playable Race/Class, it would screw over Lore too much

    Now one could argue that with the possible return of the Legion people will try to become a DH but keep that in mind: Who should train them?

    and the other issue is this: The Skills, many Demon Hunter skills are split up among other Classes, Removing them or simply Giving DH copies of those skills will only create hate between the playerbase, Imagine a Rogue losing Evasion because they want to give it a DH, you think they would accept that? Just looking at the WC 3 skills

    Evasion > Rogue

    Mana Burn > Priests had this, removed for a reason.

    Immolation > Warlocks

    Metamorphosis > Warlocks
    Who would train them?
    There is literally three trustful demon hunters, that's enough to create a order like the ebon blade.

    It's not close to the high elf issue, you can play a noob DH just like you did as a DK. High elves need to mature unlike learning a fighting skill so not the same.

    Iconic abilities: this is a stupid argument whenever I see it. A name and appearance of a spell can be changed to still be iconic. How it works is what probably matters.

    Class type: tank/ caster range Melee uses intel plate/ Melee semi-caster.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    I honestly wish I could turn on a filter that would make it so that I do not see every new "i want a demon hunter class added" by the children that start these threads every other day.
    I wish I could do the same for tinkers...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    why? the WC3 demon hunter was ranged in metamorphosis. he attacked using green fire balls, which is what soul fire looks like.
    True. I suppose you could just leave Soulfire in as the meta form fury dump, in which case they would need to fix the transition from Apotheosis to Meta so you actually had fury to dump (as it is now, leaving Apoth resets your fury to 200). My point is: There are workable options here.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Akakishin View Post
    Here is the question. Who said demon hunters have metamorphosis? O_o they are pretty obvious some special warriors from both night elf and blood elf race. and I don't remember any of them having metamorphosis except illidan which his meta form isn't related to his class and we all know why he had that form. If this class is coming to wow they should not have metamorphosis or wings (like current DH demonolgist warlocks) or anything related to warlocks. they are separate far enough to be pretty different.
    Any race (in theory) can be a Demon-Hunter.
    You are right about the metamorphosis though, Illidan has this abillity strictly due to him becoming a half-demon, before that he was just a Demon-Hunter without said abillity, demon hunters are not about being demonic (although after many years of contact with demons, it makes sense they'll become rather... twisted?), theyre about sucking magic out of their foes and utilizing them to their advantage.
    Although, I can also see how a very corrupted DH could adopt metamorphosis (which is absoloutley fine by me to be a shared abillity between Warlocks & DHs alike) it is definetly not an abillity that the class should have as a basic one:
    Think about it,
    Warlocks who are in greater contact with demons get Metamorphosis only in Demonlogy
    DHs who are in greater contact with demons should get Metamorphosis only in 1 of their speccs.
    Metamorphosis is an abillity caused by an external cause, not by an internal one --> 1st shared abillity! yay!

    To conclude, Warlocks do not prevent Demon-Hunters from being implemented, the only abillity they truly share is Immolation (which can be paralleled to Meta), and from my understanding that abillity works very differently for DHs.

    Anyhow, here's a useful link for you guys (it's a fan made idea, but a well thought-of one):
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Hunters-(Long)
    Last edited by Falu; 2013-08-04 at 06:55 AM.

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  6. #46
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falu View Post
    You are right about the metamorphosis though, Illidan has this abillity strictly due to him becoming a half-demon, before that he was just a Demon-Hunter without said abillity
    That's not true. Metamorphosis is available to all demon hunters in Warcraft III. It's their ultimate ability.

    Illidan could always use it, but after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan he underwent a permanent transformation.

    http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...onhunter.shtml

  7. #47
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    That's not true. Metamorphosis is available to all demon hunters in Warcraft III. It's their ultimate ability.

    Illidan could always use it, but after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan he underwent a permanent transformation.

    http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...onhunter.shtml
    That's because all WC3 demon hunters were basically modelled after Illidan. They all had the same skillset, how else would it work? But lorewise, Illidan only got those powers after he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    That's because all WC3 demon hunters were basically modelled after Illidan. They all had the same skillset, how else would it work? But lorewise, Illidan only got those powers after he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan.
    Illidan's body was twisted into a more demonic form by the Skull, but he's been able to do meta for 10,000 years, as we saw in the Well of Eternity 5-man. Other named DH NPCs in Outland could also do it, including the other DH raid boss, Leotheras the Blind.

  9. #49
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    Illidan's body was twisted into a more demonic form by the Skull, but he's been able to do meta for 10,000 years, as we saw in the Well of Eternity 5-man. Other named DH NPCs in Outland could also do it, including the other DH raid boss, Leotheras the Blind.
    Ha totally forgot that he did that in the Well instance. In the War of the Ancients trilogy I can't remember them mentioning that Illidan could already do that. Is the player able to use Metamorphosis before Illidan consumes the skull in WC3? If not, then that's a contradiction. Or they just added that because it looked stylish. The player transforms, too.

    I'm aware that other DHs can do it as well, as can Warlocks. But that's because they somehow learned it. In the end every spell has to be learned. But I would still say it's true that you don't have to know that spell to be considered a demon hunter.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    That's not true. Metamorphosis is available to all demon hunters in Warcraft III. It's their ultimate ability.

    Illidan could always use it, but after consuming the Skull of Gul'dan he underwent a permanent transformation.

    http://classic.battle.net/war3/night...onhunter.shtml
    I played WC3 aswell, it was applied strictly for gameplay reasons, it was not based on lore.
    Same reason why more than 1 person can have the Warglaives of Azzinoth, or any other legendary ingame...

    I'm not saying Metamorphosis is just an "Illidan" ability (for those of you lazy to read my 1st post), I'm saying it is an ability learned / given / enforced upon by contact with demons or demonic objects.
    Thus, I support the ability for both DHs & Warlocks of certain speccs.
    Last edited by Falu; 2013-08-05 at 06:47 PM.

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  11. #51
    If pandas and monks come true then everything is possible, even warlock hunters.
    So i vote No.

  12. #52
    I don't think, Demon Hunters will ever being added as a class, but as a specc. May sound weird, but let me share my thoughts:
    What speccs should a Demon Hunter have? One tank and one Melee-Dps. What should the third be? Another Melee-specc? I don't think that it would be a good idea to add another Class only with Melee-speccs. So a Caster? Would feel too much like a warlock...
    So what? Why not add Demon Hunter as a forth Specc to Warlocks? As a Tank or Melee specc? I mean, give him Dual-wield, change some abilities and take his pet away et voilà! And GC has already hinted various times, that Dodge and Parry may disappear from gear entirely, so there would not be a problem with adding new Cloth-Tank-gear...
    Sadly, this would mean, that the Demon Hunter would only be Tank OR Melee, except they take away the Demonology-Specc, for which I would hate Blizzard forever.

    And from a Lore-point-of-view, this wouldn't be unexplainable: if I recall correctly, Illidan was the first Demon Hunter and in his youth he was some kind of Mage (and sadly I have to addmit, that Warlock = Mage in those Days). Of course, Blizzard would have to make Warlocks playable as Dreanai and Night Elf, which may seem odd. But Demon Hunters were never really accepted by their people, so why not 'allow' Warlocks in their society?

  13. #53
    Short answer: No.

    Long answer, it's complicated. On the one hand Blizz can totally shoe-horn a demon hunter as popularized by Illidan in. That is no problem at all, the player base tries too often to see lore as a static set in stone thing and it's not.

    However, at this point they have given EVERYTHING that makes demon hunters to warlocks with the exception of DW daggers.

    Challenge mode armor, meta, even sacrifice. All are part of the demon hunter toolkit. Remember back when Azshara was even emptier than it is now? Yeah, the demon hunter there had several fel hunter pets, so looks like they can summon demons too!

    For all intents and purposes warlocks and demon hunters are synonymous with each other. I look forward to seeing what new classes/mechanics/specs and whatnot are coming down the pike, but unless there's a pretty massive rework of warlocks down to even aesthetics I don't see them happening anytime soon.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarta View Post
    I don't think, Demon Hunters will ever being added as a class, but as a specc. May sound weird, but let me share my thoughts:
    What speccs should a Demon Hunter have? One tank and one Melee-Dps. What should the third be? Another Melee-specc? I don't think that it would be a good idea to add another Class only with Melee-speccs. So a Caster? Would feel too much like a warlock...
    So what? Why not add Demon Hunter as a forth Specc to Warlocks? As a Tank or Melee specc? I mean, give him Dual-wield, change some abilities and take his pet away et voilà! And GC has already hinted various times, that Dodge and Parry may disappear from gear entirely, so there would not be a problem with adding new Cloth-Tank-gear...
    Sadly, this would mean, that the Demon Hunter would only be Tank OR Melee, except they take away the Demonology-Specc, for which I would hate Blizzard forever.

    And from a Lore-point-of-view, this wouldn't be unexplainable: if I recall correctly, Illidan was the first Demon Hunter and in his youth he was some kind of Mage (and sadly I have to addmit, that Warlock = Mage in those Days). Of course, Blizzard would have to make Warlocks playable as Dreanai and Night Elf, which may seem odd. But Demon Hunters were never really accepted by their people, so why not 'allow' Warlocks in their society?
    As a spec for who? Locks? Makes no sence, Nelfs cant be Locks, also we dont need a 4th spec we already have 3 cool distinct ones
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarta View Post
    I don't think, Demon Hunters will ever being added as a class, but as a specc. May sound weird, but let me share my thoughts:
    What speccs should a Demon Hunter have? One tank and one Melee-Dps. What should the third be? Another Melee-specc? I don't think that it would be a good idea to add another Class only with Melee-speccs. So a Caster? Would feel too much like a warlock...
    So what? Why not add Demon Hunter as a forth Specc to Warlocks? As a Tank or Melee specc? I mean, give him Dual-wield, change some abilities and take his pet away et voilà! And GC has already hinted various times, that Dodge and Parry may disappear from gear entirely, so there would not be a problem with adding new Cloth-Tank-gear...
    Sadly, this would mean, that the Demon Hunter would only be Tank OR Melee, except they take away the Demonology-Specc, for which I would hate Blizzard forever.

    And from a Lore-point-of-view, this wouldn't be unexplainable: if I recall correctly, Illidan was the first Demon Hunter and in his youth he was some kind of Mage (and sadly I have to addmit, that Warlock = Mage in those Days). Of course, Blizzard would have to make Warlocks playable as Dreanai and Night Elf, which may seem odd. But Demon Hunters were never really accepted by their people, so why not 'allow' Warlocks in their society?
    3rd gen (player) DKs are quite different from the second and first generation ones, and there's no way you could describe the DH lore as complete. No reason then Blizzard couldn't make some shit up to make that 3rd spec a caster or even ranged weapon user with parallels to the Diablo class of the same name.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    Illidan's body was twisted into a more demonic form by the Skull, but he's been able to do meta for 10,000 years, as we saw in the Well of Eternity 5-man. Other named DH NPCs in Outland could also do it, including the other DH raid boss, Leotheras the Blind.
    We don't talk about the WoE instance.... It didn't happen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm not going to say Demon Hunter is impossible.... I would of course love it, my favorite class from Warcraft for sure. I think it's also safe to assume that Warlocks and Demon hunters are very close to the same class, however where one decided to go into spell casting, the other decided to go into melee and imbue himself with demon magic instead of hitting others with it. If blizzard wanted to turn demonology into a full demon hunter spec, I would be totally cool with that (IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MELEE)
    It's like crossing an intersection. There's shit going on all over the place and you don't panic and act like an idiot then do you?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by kynthrus View Post
    I'm not going to say Demon Hunter is impossible.... I would of course love it, my favorite class from Warcraft for sure. I think it's also safe to assume that Warlocks and Demon hunters are very close to the same class, however where one decided to go into spell casting, the other decided to go into melee and imbue himself with demon magic instead of hitting others with it. If blizzard wanted to turn demonology into a full demon hunter spec, I would be totally cool with that (IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MELEE)
    The difference between a warlock and a demon hunter is far more than just deciding to be melee or a caster.

    A warlock is a magically talented individual who has eschewed the training required to become a mage in favor of darker, more dangerous magics. He cuts deals with devils, recklessly plays with fire, and revels in inflicting cruel magics. He is not trusted by the world at large, if he reveals himself for what he is, and thus will happily manipulate from the shadows.

    A demon hunter is one who has chosen an incredibly difficult path, one which can easily cost his life before he has achieved his goal. Even if he succeeds at stealing the powers of demons to use against them, his strength are courage are overlooked by others, who can only see a mutilated, fel-tainted individual. After all the pain and sacrifice to become a demon hunter, these heroes are left on the outside of the society they fight to protect.

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    In the War of the Ancients trilogy I can't remember them mentioning that Illidan could already do that. Is the player able to use Metamorphosis before Illidan consumes the skull in WC3?
    The War of the Ancients trilogy doesn't exactly jive with canon. Illidan is not depicted as a demon hunter in any way in the novels, he's just a mage who wears a blindfold and can see demons. He doesn't even have his warglaives.

    However, the official lore specifically states that he became the first demon hunter and fought the demons during the war, killing Azzinoth and acquiring his warglaives, and he was supposed to have trained many other demon hunters.

    Chalk it up to Knaak.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Is the player able to use Metamorphosis before Illidan consumes the skull in WC3? If not, then that's a contradiction. Or they just added that because it looked stylish.
    Yes. You can transform as soon as you learn the ability. All demon hunters, upon reaching a certain level of skill, gain the Metamorphosis ability. It's their iconic power. The same was true in the RPG (one of very few sources for Demon Hunter lore), and true for virtually all of the named in-game demon hunters.

    Illidan permanently transformed into a demon (not half-demon) when he consumed the skull. He actually got new character models in The Frozen Throne to show his new form. He could use Metamorphosis before that.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtree View Post
    The difference between a warlock and a demon hunter is far more than just deciding to be melee or a caster.

    A warlock is a magically talented individual who has eschewed the training required to become a mage in favor of darker, more dangerous magics. He cuts deals with devils, recklessly plays with fire, and revels in inflicting cruel magics. He is not trusted by the world at large, if he reveals himself for what he is, and thus will happily manipulate from the shadows.

    A demon hunter is one who has chosen an incredibly difficult path, one which can easily cost his life before he has achieved his goal. Even if he succeeds at stealing the powers of demons to use against them, his strength are courage are overlooked by others, who can only see a mutilated, fel-tainted individual. After all the pain and sacrifice to become a demon hunter, these heroes are left on the outside of the society they fight to protect.
    what you said about warlocks describes illidan perfectly. he didn't make any noble sacrifice, he was fueled by greed alone. he betrayed the night elves, the highborne and the burning legion for the three things he wanted the most in this world: power, glory and his brother's girlfriend. he had a deal with sargeras, the one big bad demon. if you do well of eternity, you'll see how reckless he is, and how he revels in doing what he does. nobody trusts him because he's the betrayer. "war is deception, a game better played from the shadows".
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  20. #60
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    what you said about warlocks describes illidan perfectly. he didn't make any noble sacrifice, he was fueled by greed alone. he betrayed the night elves, the highborne and the burning legion for the three things he wanted the most in this world: power, glory and his brother's girlfriend. he had a deal with sargeras, the one big bad demon. if you do well of eternity, you'll see how reckless he is, and how he revels in doing what he does. nobody trusts him because he's the betrayer. "war is deception, a game better played from the shadows".
    To be fair, IMO you could argue that Priests and Paladins have overlaps, just like Druids and Shaman (to a lesser extent). Overlapping motives doesn't exclude one from the other. Infact, there could be an irony in that we've seen Warlocks use magic from any forbidden source that gives them power: along with the demon minions/providers of "fuel" for spells, we've seen them use near Necromantic magic (Haunt, Soul Shards), as well as Burning Embers which was implied in the Council of the Black Harvest story to have been taken from Ragnaros at least initially before Warlocks became powerful enough to use Fel versions. Whereas, Demon Hunters could use siphoned Demonic energies that are internalized near exclusively but rely on their own strength to control it (making them similar to monks in a sense that they must control the energy within them to provide martial strength).

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