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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    It's official that it will come. It's not official that its coming with 5.4

    At least thats what Ghostcrawler said a while back. They are not sure they will have it ready to ship with 5.4
    RL, GM and Pally Tank for 10-man Guild Plage, EU-Gorgonnash
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Well tbh, I'll never use Double Jeopardy. That's just too much hazzle. It's viable vor Multi-Target fights I guess or just in the way of "I'll put it in and if its usefull, great". But I dont't think I will ever track it and game it in a way, that takes full advantage of it. I'm just too lazy I guess.

    Divine Protection Glyph I hardly ever use since we got that Physical Mitigation covered fine anyway. Only when I really need it.

    And Harsh Words doesn't work out with my playstyle. Never going to have / use 2p T15 (so I dont use WoG hardly at all anyways). And using it to damage instead of healing myself with 4pc t16 is too situational I guess (I'd rather use those banked bastion stacks for a quick oh-shit heal than use it to damage the boss tbh).

    I guess that only leaves WoG or Double Jeopardy. Since I hardly ever WoG, DJ is probably still better even If I don't care the game it?
    I won't be bothering with DJ, TBH, except for maybe Klaxxi fight (where I can set focus and not have to re-set it every 10 seconds). I CBA to try that hard, honestly.
    I'll be using FW, Alab, and rotating in FS, DivProt, HolyWrath.

    I'm currently on the 4pT15 train for next tier, but I may end up swapping over to t16 and using WOG glyph and spam WOG/HW for the +dmg if it ends up being useful/beneficial. In that case, ofc WOG glyph becomes a mainstay. But truly, I don't like losing one of my "outs" by rotationally working in WOG for dmg, so I'm still on the fence there...

    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    There will prob be fights where the new Devo aura can shine more then a dps glyph. cant say for certain tho due to no ptr for me
    I think your raid/RL would be very angry. I know I'd be pissed if our other paladin used that glyph in group play. Devo is a great raid-CD, hogging it to oneself is doing the group a disservice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuzzfizzle View Post
    Is it even official that we will get a vengeance nerf? Shouldn't they have introduced the nerf onto the PTR before the heroic testing?
    Maybe the /sit nerf is all we'll get after all?
    Correct. Sit is confirmed, V-cap is not (yet). But they may toss it in at the last minute "under the radar". Even so, outside of a few niche strats/situations, it still shouldn't REALLY affect us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  3. #23
    I feel like the T15 4p train is a bit hypocritical. To me it feels pretty much like the case in T14 between going PvP Retri 4p vs T14 gear, though cant remember anyone lobbying for that (except I lifted it up as a possibility but never actually used it myself).

    I just dont see T15 4p being worth the stat loss. Maybe compared to T16 normals, MAYBE, especially without valor upgrade, but if you valor upgrade the T16 normal gear or get T16 heroic gear, I just see no justification for the T15 4p. It could have situational use for some fights.

    Especially for 10 mans, I would never even consider the T15 4p to be honest, considering the stats on the T15 set, I think this situation is even worse than the T14 pvp set (since that actually had good stats on it).

    DJ is probably gonna be a good glyph to be honest, I am still of the opinion that AB is very overvalued, especailly after nerfs. Depending on fight designs I can see myself using DJ a lot.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-08-02 at 01:58 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #24
    Can sort of understand the battle healer glyph going down to 30% since previous it was very strong with the change for raid healing, i mean paladins were getting like easy 70k HPS on fights in SoO and i mean it could of been maximized even more then that since how strong it was, but 30% just means that there is no way its worth the sac to our self heal for that raid smart heal since it just means healers will need to heal us more and our sol isn't even going to be as strong, even if it was less overheal on the raid compared to when using it to heal us, at 30% it wont be effective and now what they were doing to make a fun glyph which could be useful dependent on healer comp and the fight will basically never be used now.

  5. #25
    Considering the amount of HoPo you get in from t15 4pc is worth between 2-6k haste, depending on use, I don't see that big of a deal. We're already going to be able to cap hit, exp, and haste...after that you can either pile on mastery (meh), crit (decent throughput), or avoidance (boo, but less than before). So...you're not exactly going to gain much by maxing out ilvl, and certainly not gaining anything near as important or influential as that amount of ShotR uptime.

    Plus, with the amplification trinket, haste cap is only ~18500, which a lot of us are at/over now anyhow. Or, with CDR trinket, UbS-DivProt is only ~22 sec, so it's almost 50% uptime of the "take damage, get HoPo" bonus.

    DJ is likely going to "sim" higher, but I CBA to worry about using it. AB is far from overvalued, as most of our glyph slots are lackluster as it is. Passive free damage is, well, passive. And free. With the death of BH, I'd use pretty much anything over DJ still, simply for the lack of required micromanagement for miniscule gains. Unless there are 2 targets who share health and importance, DJ is basically just a tool to rank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexz View Post
    Can sort of understand the battle healer glyph going down to 30% since previous it was very strong with the change for raid healing, i mean paladins were getting like easy 70k HPS on fights in SoO and i mean it could of been maximized even more then that since how strong it was, but 30% just means that there is no way its worth the sac to our self heal for that raid smart heal since it just means healers will need to heal us more and our sol isn't even going to be as strong, even if it was less overheal on the raid compared to when using it to heal us, at 30% it wont be effective and now what they were doing to make a fun glyph which could be useful dependent on healer comp and the fight will basically never be used now.
    I would still like to know how Blizzard justify removing paladins passive raid healing without even affecting monks passive raid absorbs.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I would still like to know how Blizzard justify removing paladins passive raid healing without even affecting monks passive raid absorbs.
    you know the answer

    recount
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Considering the amount of HoPo you get in from t15 4pc is worth between 2-6k haste, depending on use, I don't see that big of a deal. We're already going to be able to cap hit, exp, and haste...after that you can either pile on mastery (meh), crit (decent throughput), or avoidance (boo, but less than before). So...you're not exactly going to gain much by maxing out ilvl, and certainly not gaining anything near as important or influential as that amount of ShotR uptime.

    Plus, with the amplification trinket, haste cap is only ~18500, which a lot of us are at/over now anyhow. Or, with CDR trinket, UbS-DivProt is only ~22 sec, so it's almost 50% uptime of the "take damage, get HoPo" bonus.

    DJ is likely going to "sim" higher, but I CBA to worry about using it. AB is far from overvalued, as most of our glyph slots are lackluster as it is. Passive free damage is, well, passive. And free. With the death of BH, I'd use pretty much anything over DJ still, simply for the lack of required micromanagement for miniscule gains. Unless there are 2 targets who share health and importance, DJ is basically just a tool to rank.
    Considering the 4p pvp set bonus was worth roughly 13000 haste rating and that did not create a huge fuss, when you also take into consideration that was far more reliable and consistant. I see the t15 4p being great on some fights were you can abuse the shit out of it, like Dark Animus, but for the average fight I just dont see justificating it, especially in 10 mans.

    DJ is a great tool if you can maintain it, it is not just a tool to rank, it gives you higher throughput for more effort. I still got a feeling that I will probably use Word of Glory more than AB, I see WoG+FS+FW being a common glyph setup that I am probably gonna use in 5.4
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #29
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Is this change a 5.4 thing or did they stealth nerf it before? I still run with it as of right now until 5.4 comes, then it's gone.

    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Twitch Stream | Wayniac#1291


  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Considering the 4p pvp set bonus was worth roughly 13000 haste rating and that did not create a huge fuss, when you also take into consideration that was far more reliable and consistant. I see the t15 4p being great on some fights were you can abuse the shit out of it, like Dark Animus, but for the average fight I just dont see justificating it, especially in 10 mans.

    DJ is a great tool if you can maintain it, it is not just a tool to rank, it gives you higher throughput for more effort. I still got a feeling that I will probably use Word of Glory more than AB, I see WoG+FS+FW being a common glyph setup that I am probably gonna use in 5.4
    But by the time the 4pc was under consideration (for most), the ilvl inflation of PVE vs PVP was so far gone that it wasn't worth anything on progression or current content. T15 isn't JUST useful on DA, it's any/all damage taken in that 10sec window. The window is up every 30 sec (or less, with trinket), and looking at parses/logs it only takes 1 HoPo per minute (IIRC) to give you ~2k+ haste rating, which is what I'd lose for putting on the 4pc. 1 HoPo per min, when I get 2 casts, so 20 seconds per minute to take 20% of my HP in damage.

    Think about fights from t14. Stone guard explosions, Feng specials, Garajal tanking, WotE was brutal when gearing/progressing, Tayak slashes, entire fight of WindLord, Empress add phases, Tsulong breaths, LeiShi entirely, Sha thrashes. And that's just specials, not even the normal damage that you're going to soak.

    Watching PTR streams of tank damage in, we will be seeing some serious nukes that you can use to get even more mileage out of the bonus.

    As far as DJ, I guess we'll just disagree. The amount of fights that satisfy the requriements of DJ to give any meaningful increase in useful DPS (2+ targets, HP doesn't reset, both have priority for killing) is low enough that I don't see ever using it. At least, not over the other DPS options like FS, FW, and even AB (nerfed though it may be) or the occasionaly DivProt or HolyW uses. WOG also, but we'll see how the tier sets end up going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Is this change a 5.4 thing or did they stealth nerf it before? I still run with it as of right now until 5.4 comes, then it's gone.
    This is all 5.4 changes. BH is going away, and was originally going to remove SOI from you and cause your SOI to smart heal the raid. This was a big buff to raid HPS at the cost of self HPS. Now, it's only 30% isntead of 100% of SOI, meaning that this is poop and will not be used by anyone who can read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  11. #31
    Mechagnome ipoststuff's Avatar
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    With in the duration of ptr the glyph went from being OP to OK and now to useless.

    I cant believe Blizzard overnerfed something

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    I cant believe Blizzard overnerfed something
    My sarcasm meter just went off the charts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  13. #33
    So regular BH only hits yourself and glyphed will hit others but only for 30%?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallX View Post
    So regular BH only hits yourself and glyphed will hit others but only for 30%?
    There's no regular BH. I think you mean SoI
    But yea glyph went from "possibly really strong on some fights" to "forever final wrath"

  15. #35
    Yeah, I feel like come 5.4, there is really no reason not to use final wrath on any fight.

    It will always be a top 3 choice. All other glyphs I can see myself swapping out for whatever reason, but FW is just very consistent.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallX View Post
    So regular BH only hits yourself and glyphed will hit others but only for 30%?
    No. It only hits One other, the most injured party or raid member, for 30% of the normal heal amount. You wont be healed for anything. You would be sacrificing your self healing from the glyph, to heal for 30% of the normal amount on one person at a time.

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