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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    aye hey, players who think there made up avatars are important.

    really, you necroed this thread for this?

    yep =D /10char

  2. #242
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Let's have a look at Garrosh:
    He achieved nothing. The horde victories in Northrend were not his victories. Saurfang again lead the successfull battles, while Garrosh was crushing model ships in Warsong hold, insulting Varian Wrynn several times and ordered the broken front massacre.
    Not that I disagree with all the rest, but Garrosh never ordered the massacre in the Broken Front. In fact, while a lot strained and sustained by Thrall and Saurfang "pressing" him, Garrosh condemned that act as cowardly.

  3. #243
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Not that I disagree with all the rest, but Garrosh never ordered the massacre in the Broken Front. In fact, while a lot strained and sustained by Thrall and Saurfang "pressing" him, Garrosh condemned that act as cowardly.
    He did the same with the bombing of the druid school in stonetalon.. But then does it to theramore, with a bomb far larger and more deadly.
    I'd go as far to say Garrosh pulled a misdirection, to make everyone thing he was on board with condemning his commanders for there actions, when infact he took inspiration from it.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  4. #244
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    My thread rises from the grave yet again!

    Many necromancers reside in this forum.

    Words to live by.

  5. #245
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    My thread rises from the grave yet again!

    Many necromancers reside in this forum.
    I think Zulkhan done it to a few.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  6. #246
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    He did the same with the bombing of the druid school in stonetalon.. But then does it to theramore, with a bomb far larger and more deadly.
    I'd go as far to say Garrosh pulled a misdirection, to make everyone thing he was on board with condemning his commanders for there actions, when infact he took inspiration from it.
    Thermore was a military threat, it had to be wiped out for orgrimmar's safety.

    Garrosh gave the alliance time to evacuate theramore aswell. (mentioned earlier in this thread with better detail)

    Words to live by.

  7. #247
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Thermore was a military threat, it had to be wiped out for orgrimmar's safety.

    Garrosh gave the alliance time to evacuate theramore aswell. (mentioned earlier in this thread with better detail)
    blah blah blah. Same old same old. He still arranged to steal a powerful artifact to be fused with a powerful bomb not just destroying the city but obliterating it and its inhabitants.

    Mana bombs were used by kael'thas's forces in outland, garrosh obviously learned about what a mana bomb does, and decided to use it on Jaina.
    Military or not, its the same as dropping a nuclear bomb and the radiation destorying the land for generations. Its the lowest act you can commit in a war, and Garrosh, who condenmed one of his own commanders for using a bomb, does something far worse.

    There is no excuse. If you liked him doing it because it was evil, at least admit the fact thats why you liked it, instead of trying to justify it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Thermore was a military threat, it had to be wiped out for orgrimmar's safety.

    Garrosh gave the alliance time to evacuate theramore aswell. (mentioned earlier in this thread with better detail)
    Wrong.

    Baine warned Jaina of the coming attack. Did you actually read the book or take word from the patsies here that didn't and think they know the story?

    Garrosh waited, for as many alliance forces to gather in theramore as he could. The attack he arranged on it was to draw the alliance to theramore, gather as many people there as he could, and then kill them in a single, dishonorable move.

    Oh yes, it was also said by Golden, that the effects of the mana bomb didn't just kill people, it wiped the souls out from existence. Now, try and think about that, consider what the lich king did to people, and then try and tell me what Garrosh did there, in a completely planned attack, wasn't on par with Arthas ripping someones soul apart.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  8. #248
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Dishonorable?- Yeah.

    Smart?- Definitely.

    Words to live by.

  9. #249
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Dishonorable?- Yeah.

    Smart?- Definitely.
    A serial killer that evades the police for years can be considered smart.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  10. #250
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    He did the same with the bombing of the druid school in stonetalon.. But then does it to theramore, with a bomb far larger and more deadly.
    I'd go as far to say Garrosh pulled a misdirection, to make everyone thing he was on board with condemning his commanders for there actions, when infact he took inspiration from it.
    Yes and no. What I think is that Garrosh tried to delude himself, and tried aswell hard to be something that he wasn't. The bombing in Stonetalon is somehow a "separate" question, and I belive that he was honest about what he said, even if what he said wasn't that good (his "am I a murderer Krom'gar?" showed the first signs of his egocentric self growing to the sky); the problem is when there is "Alliance scum" on the table.

    When Garrosh condemned Blackscar about the cowardly act, he took a lot of time for literally decide what to say, and he felt the pressure of Thrall and Saurfang gazes on him, because inside him, despite of what he wanted to belive about what is honorable and what is not, he felt almost lifted and that was indeed a good thing that the Alliance didn't conquer the first gate leading to Arthas's reign, because that would have give them an advantage, "stealing" glory to the Horde (since he firmly belived that the Horde would have been able to kick the ass of the Scourge alone).

    Now, just imagine a similar situation without Thrall and Saurfang on his back looking at him, waiting the "right" answer, but with Malkorok doing the opposite; with Garrosh not just Overlord of a Northrend base but Warchief of the Horde. Well, the similar situation have a name: Theramore.

    Anyway, I was just correcting a formal mistake, and not discussing about the why Garrosh did this or that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I think Zulkhan done it to a few.
    Yeah, I'm guilty indeed. Summer eats to me a lot of time, and I'm able to respond to the same threads I started to post almost a week later or little less.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Oh yes, it was also said by Golden, that the effects of the mana bomb didn't just kill people, it wiped the souls out from existence. Now, try and think about that, consider what the lich king did to people, and then try and tell me what Garrosh did there, in a completely planned attack, wasn't on par with Arthas ripping someones soul apart.
    Arthas still wins the contest. Destroy a soul is brutal, but at least finish there. Arthas would not destroy your soul, would torture it for all eternity.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-08-10 at 02:03 AM.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Garrosh is the epitome of horrible story telling.
    This is coming from a guy who has Deadpool as his avatar image.
    Last edited by Badmojoman; 2013-08-10 at 02:09 AM. Reason: Grammar
    Retarded to the point of genius.... and all the way back to retarded again.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post

    Arthas still wins the contest. Destroy a soul is brutal, but at least finish there. Arthas would not destroy your soul, would torture it for all eternity.
    Final, ultimate cessation of existence -> lesser evil than 'eternal' torment the length of which is [or rather: was] intertwined with the fate of Arthas's material existence.

    My-oh-my - this Garrosh SURE is one humane chap.
    On the bullshit-o-meter, your point scores just as high as the one according to which full extermination of Orcs during their internment would have been an act of compassion.

    I swear that sometimes even lurking within MMO-Champ threads leaves me mentally inoperational for at least one hour afterwards.

  13. #253
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine de Coolette View Post
    Final, ultimate cessation of existence -> lesser evil than 'eternal' torment the length of which is [or rather: was] intertwined with the fate of Arthas's material existence.

    My-oh-my - this Garrosh SURE is one humane chap.
    On the bullshit-o-meter, your point scores just as high as the one according to which full extermination of Orcs during their internment would have been an act of compassion.

    I swear that sometimes even lurking within MMO-Champ threads leaves me mentally inoperational for at least one hour afterwards.
    I'd take 1 second of pain then permanent death over eternal pain of my very soul AFTER i die any day.

    Words to live by.

  14. #254
    Herald of the Titans Mighty Blue Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    Garrosh is sort of like an azerothian hitler.
    This ONLY came about in the book. Up until Tides of War, Garrosh was WORTHY of my respect. And then Blizzard took a dump on his character... And turned him into a raid bosses to appease the whiners. :S

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanochan View Post
    This ONLY came about in the book.
    Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    Why is it that WoW's playerbase from MMO-champion and Scrolls-of-Lore sees no wrong in delegating vast amounts of lore with good in-game potential to the book form BUT as soon as a single character gets handled by the writer in the manner they don't like, they start whining and kicking and pushing the pram?

    As horrible of a writer as Christie Golden is, you people kept asking for more and more in the ways of meager stories that only served to flatten preestablished characters - which prompted Blizzard to put more and more work in her hands. This is the fruit of your own actions, deal with it.

  16. #256
    Doomhammer's already dead, I don't see how they can kill him again.

  17. #257
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine de Coolette View Post
    Final, ultimate cessation of existence -> lesser evil than 'eternal' torment the length of which is [or rather: was] intertwined with the fate of Arthas's material existence.

    My-oh-my - this Garrosh SURE is one humane chap.
    On the bullshit-o-meter, your point scores just as high as the one according to which full extermination of Orcs during their internment would have been an act of compassion.

    I swear that sometimes even lurking within MMO-Champ threads leaves me mentally inoperational for at least one hour afterwards.
    What da fuck is this post, a joke? I don't care what is most "evil", but it's blatantly obvious that a single instant of agonizing pain it's still less terrible than an eternity of torture and suffering. Even a child could understand this simple truth. Apparently, you don't.

    The fact that Arthas now is dead doesn't matter, since the Lich King still exists and, by what Blizzard made us understand, will always exists; and anyway, on paper, what the Lich King do to the souls of living beings is worse than everything else.

    full extermination of Orcs during their internment would have been an act of compassion.
    The irony? The most proud of the orcs actually thought excatly that. If the average orc have to choose between death and chains, he would always choose death.

  18. #258
    Field Marshal Rathnor The Flesher's Avatar
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    I find that the short answer is this: the player-base didn't like him. I felt like Blizz was trying to move the Horde back to it's roots in order to better justify the war with the Alliance, since they more-or-less haven't any reason to be fighting at all. In the end, the casual gamer is squeamish. He doesn't enjoy conquest, slavery, or wanton violence. The casual gamer is only human and the Orcs aren't supposed to be, which would make them harder to relate to the gamer. Case-in-point, Blizz is taking the safe road by making the Horde races more human and sympathetic, when they are supposed to be brutal and meritocratic.

    The virtues and morals of an alien species are obviously going to be very different. What's wrong to us might be considered brave and heroic to the Orcs, just like pacifism and mercy might be considered weak and lazy to the Orcs. It's this sort of homogenization that has made me lose interest in the franchise all together, it makes no difference what side I fight for because they are essentially the same thing.

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