[Spoilers] Why is the horde killing the best warchief they have ever had?

[Belisaurio]

It's okay, I've still got Sylvanas. Blizzard won't dare kill her off anytime soon, no matter how many pansy pacifist players there are

Tsssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
Silence about that. Have hope about "bad guys from outer space" will arrive to azeroth, this will give something to good guys to kick and save the world.

Nah, Sylvanas is grey!! Look at her skin!! She is grey!!!

[docterfreeze]

I'm not seeing the word Alliance in there. Unless "the war" is an alternate spelling I'm not aware of.

The war means the constant war of Alliance vs. Horde...

[Venziir]

It's okay, I've still got Sylvanas. Blizzard won't dare kill her off anytime soon, no matter how many pansy pacifist players there are.

They've killed her 3 times already...

[leaks]

The war means the constant war of Alliance vs. Horde...

They weren't at war the entire time he was warchief so that can't be right. Unless you guys are playing a different game.

[Venziir]

The war means the constant war of Alliance vs. Horde...

No it does not. It means War, as in against anything that is a threat to Azeroth, be it alien or us.

[Northem]

Why everyone hates Garrosh? It is true that at present his actions are more than reprehensible and therefore he should be stopped and receive a just punishment, but we cannot forget that he has been the only one who has led the Horde to its splendor, he has brought together former allies under his command and has more than proved its worth. Garrosh Hellscream is a hero of the Horde! With the amount of progress that he has brought to the Horde ... If the Horde does not appreciate how good Warchief is he, then Garrosh's future must be somewhere else!

With Garrosh Live, a new threat looms over Azeroth ... a new faction with new interests ... For the love of God! That would give a lot of play in the future! Kill Garrosh is very boring and predictable! Blizzard, Surprise us all! Please!

The Dark Horde will be proud to have Garrosh as their Warchief, now that Rend Blackhand is officially dead. With the help of the Grimtotem tauren, the Prophet Zul's Zandalari trolls and the entire Dark Horde, Garrosh Hellscream, son of Grom Hellscream, will take the place that belongs in his own right.

Garrosh for Warchief! Garrosh Hellscream for ever! For the TRUE Horde! For the Dark Horde!


List of facts about Garrosh and Thrall

---

• • Garrosh has been a good leader for the Horde, indeed, has been the Warchief of the Horde long needed. Why do I say this? Because just before his arrival, the Horde-Alliance conflict was practically dead. Garrosh has revived the WAR, when by the end of the day we are in the World of WARcraft.
  
  The intrinsic essence of the Warcraft universe is the bipolar confrontation between the Horde and the Alliance, and that has been so since the origins (Warcraft: Orcs & Humans). If this conflict disappears or is too smoothed, the World of Warcraft will be dead forever.
  
  We need the Alliance-Horde conflict more than ever! We need to identify with a faction! Here there should be no half measures, they are two irreconcilable extremes, two opposing views ...
  
  Besides, what had done Thrall lately as Warchief? From that he liberated his people and established the Horde capital in a dusty desert, has done virtually nothing: the Horde was stagnant in every way, it is more, ultimately the Warchief of the Horde himself abandoned the Horde to their fate when he had to engage in his shamanic tasks.
  
  And Garrosh? what has made Garrosh for the Horde? Well to begin his war effort in Northrend was spectacular, which showed the power of the Horde beyond Kalimdor. But above all, when he became Warchief, gave an unprecedented impetus to the Horde itself: the creation of a naval force and a powerful army, reconstruction of Orgrimmar, exploitation of new raw materials, acquisition of new allies, the conquest of new lands and ultimately, an advance of the Horde in every conceivable aspect, not to mention the excellent military and strategist functions of the own Garrosh Hellscream, and the awe and respect that imposes his mere presence. In short, Garrosh is the best Warchief that the Horde could ever have.
  
  
• • Since we met Garrosh in Nagrand we have seen him change drastically, which is logical given his volatility and weak personality. But lately there is something that has turned him even more radicalized. In fact, until not long ago, he condemned the indiscriminate attacks towards innocent people and he hated dealing with demons and the most vicious practices of the Forsaken. However, it is undeniable that the last acts of Garrosh are more irrational, as if he was carried away by their primary feelings, as if he did not mind the honor of battle, in short, is as if he was possessed, as if something had changed inside him and amplify his negative desires.
  
  Given this Garrosh's progression, it is easy and logical to think that something or someone is taking advantage of the emotional weakness of Garrosh and is using him to create conflict, even inside the Horde itself. So it stands to reason that a foreign agent (Old God, demon, Sha) may be behind the radicalization of the Warchief, in fact that would be the most likely...
  
  Assuming that the recent acts of Garrosh are due to an external agent that is influencing him, his redemption is possible, and for this, it would be enough with eliminate the source of his corruption, so that Garrosh himself realizes the mistakes he has made. I personally hope that Garrosh does not end being foully murdered, but he is forgiven for his sins, even if it means some sort of punishment or degradation, but never kill him.
  
  
• • Garrosh Hellscream is a major hero of the Warcraft story, especially for the Horde. He is the son of the liberator of the orc race from the bondage of the Burning Legion, Grom Hellscream, and is a character full of nuances and connotations. It is too important to die in a raid. His future will certainly great things holds for, it would be a real shame to lose a character like Garrosh as well as thus. It is a character that can give much play in future events, whether redeemed or as if he is relegated to being a villain.
  
  Maybe Garrosh might redeem himself, however, it is clear that Garrosh has to stop being the Warchief, perhaps his future is not in the Horde, since the Horde may be too "soft" to have a leader like Garrosh. His future may be more like being a leader of a revived faction: the Dark Horde. The Dark Horde would be pleased to proclaim him as a leader and would benefit from Garrosh's full potential. A Dark Horde led by Garrosh Hellscream with the support of the Grimtotem tauren and Zandalari trolls servants of the Prophet Zul would form a faction certainly very interesting ... I'd bet on it.
  
  Whatever it is, Garrosh Hellscream deserves more than be the last boss in a raid!
  
  
• • Possibly related to the issue of Garrosh leaving the Horde one way or another, Thrall (Go'el from now) has confirmed his return to the Horde, that is, he leaves behind his neutrality as the shaman savior of the world and will return to interfere in the affairs of the Horde. But seems strange that the path that Go'el began in the early cataclysm can be undone, i.e. if Go'el had already chosen his destiny as the Earth-Warder, he cannot now return to the Horde: his time in the Horde has passed.
  
  Go'el's counterpart in the Alliance is Malfurion Stormrage, and as you know, he behaves himself neutral in all respects. Why would Go'el interfere in the Horde and Malfurion not do the same in the Alliance? It would be unfair to the Alliance, to put it delicately.
  
  
• • Go'el / Thrall returns to the Horde: is already confirmed. Whatever his role is hopefully the Alliance is reimbursed for some way, if not, again we will see clearly what is the Blizzard's favorite faction.
  
  But not only Go'el / Thrall's return to the Horde leaves the Alliance in a bad place, if not in this expansion, in which presumably the Alliance would recover all losses suffered at the hands of the Horde after cataclysm, the Alliance lost one of their capitals: Theramore is destroyed. How does Blizzard compensate the Alliance after these events? Very simple: an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth. Or another Horde capital is destroyed (something I do not support), or another "lost" city of the Alliance is recovered to replace Theramore, as Dalaran.
  
  So again, the Alliance needs to retrieve something after this whole debacle, and if we lose a city it is logical that we recover another. Dalaran and the Kirin Tor would be ideal as they cannot claim neutrality in a war that they bear directly and cannot hide no more their historical affiliation with the Alliance. If Thrall / Go'el leaves neutrality behind and returns to the Horde, I do not understand how the Kirin Tor could not do the same, especially in these circumstances.
  
  It is true that at present it seems that the loyalty of Dalaran, the Kirin Tor and Jaina are with the Alliance, but we'll see what happens when Garrosh is dethroned and he is no longer a threat to anyone ... Will Dalaran, the Kirin Tor and Jaina herself return to the uncomfortable state of neutrality imposed by her predecessor Rhonin? I'm afraid so, and that would be a kick in the teeth to all the Alliance (excluding the future neutralization of two more heroes of the Alliance: Alleria and Turalyon).

---

PD. By comparison:

• The "bland" soundtrack of Thrall's Orgrimmar -> http://www.goear.com/listen/244e619/orgrimmar-wow
• The "energetic" soundtrack of Garrosh's Orgrimmar -> http://www.goear.com/listen/e0547af/...vid-arkenstone

Which one inspires more fear, more respect, more power?

As a bonus, the soundtrack of Garrosh's Horde -> http://www.goear.com/listen/342c5e6/...ld-of-warcraft

[Lynneiah]

What's your point? Contrary to what many players seem to think, this isn't real life, it's a game. A game that's centralized on WAR. I want the Horde to be a darker faction, and to be at war with the Alliance at all times. I chose to play Horde because on paper they're supposed to be the darker faction, and Garrosh delivers on that premise.

There's 'darker', there's 'evil', and then there's Garrosh, who intends to commit warcrimes on a scale only the Burning Legion can beat.
As you said, you already have 'darker' with Sylvanas. Garrosh is monstrous when taken serious, cartoonish when not. Neither make for a very good leader.


I'm all for an interesting open conflict between the Horde and the Alliance, as long as both are led by sane people. Garrosh is not sane.

[Belisaurio]

They've killed her 3 times already...

But for kill a "Big Bad guy" they need to create a Raid (or 5 mans if Blizzard don't have time)!!!

[Venziir]

Why everyone hates Garrosh? It is true that at present his actions are more than reprehensible and therefore he should be stopped and receive a just punishment, but we cannot forget that he has been the only one who has led the Horde to its splendor, he has brought together former allies under his command and has more than proved its worth. Garrosh Hellscream is a hero of the Horde! With the amount of progress that he has brought to the Horde ... If the Horde does not appreciate how good Warchief is he, then Garrosh's future must be somewhere else!

With Garrosh Live, a new threat looms over Azeroth ... a new faction with new interests ... For the love of God! That would give a lot of play in the future! Kill Garrosh is very boring and predictable! Blizzard, Surprise us all! Please!

The Dark Horde will be proud to have Garrosh as their Warchief, now that Rend Blackhand is officially dead. With the help of the Grimtotem tauren, the Prophet Zul's Zandalari trolls and the entire Dark Horde, Garrosh Hellscream, son of Grom Hellscream, will take the place that belongs in his own right.

Garrosh for Warchief! Garrosh Hellscream for ever! For the TRUE Horde! For the Dark Horde!


List of facts about Garrosh and Thrall

---

• • Garrosh has been a good leader for the Horde, indeed, has been the Warchief of the Horde long needed. Why do I say this? Because just before his arrival, the Horde-Alliance conflict was practically dead. Garrosh has revived the WAR, when by the end of the day we are in the World of WARcraft.
  
  The intrinsic essence of the Warcraft universe is the bipolar confrontation between the Horde and the Alliance, and that has been so since the origins (Warcraft: Orcs & Humans). If this conflict disappears or is too smoothed, the World of Warcraft will be dead forever.
  
  We need the Alliance-Horde conflict more than ever! We need to identify with a faction! Here there should be no half measures, they are two irreconcilable extremes, two opposing views ...
  
  Besides, what had done Thrall lately as Warchief? From that he liberated his people and established the Horde capital in a dusty desert, has done virtually nothing: the Horde was stagnant in every way, it is more, ultimately the Warchief of the Horde himself abandoned the Horde to their fate when he had to engage in his shamanic tasks.
  
  And Garrosh? what has made Garrosh for the Horde? Well to begin his war effort in Northrend was spectacular, which showed the power of the Horde beyond Kalimdor. But above all, when he became Warchief, gave an unprecedented impetus to the Horde itself: the creation of a naval force and a powerful army, reconstruction of Orgrimmar, exploitation of new raw materials, acquisition of new allies, the conquest of new lands and ultimately, an advance of the Horde in every conceivable aspect, not to mention the excellent military and strategist functions of the own Garrosh Hellscream, and the awe and respect that imposes his mere presence. In short, Garrosh is the best Warchief that the Horde could ever have.
  
  
• • Since we met Garrosh in Nagrand we have seen him change drastically, which is logical given his volatility and weak personality. But lately there is something that has turned him even more radicalized. In fact, until not long ago, he condemned the indiscriminate attacks towards innocent people and he hated dealing with demons and the most vicious practices of the Forsaken. However, it is undeniable that the last acts of Garrosh are more irrational, as if he was carried away by their primary feelings, as if he did not mind the honor of battle, in short, is as if he was possessed, as if something had changed inside him and amplify his negative desires.
  
  Given this Garrosh's progression, it is easy and logical to think that something or someone is taking advantage of the emotional weakness of Garrosh and is using him to create conflict, even inside the Horde itself. So it stands to reason that a foreign agent (Old God, demon, Sha) may be behind the radicalization of the Warchief, in fact that would be the most likely...
  
  Assuming that the recent acts of Garrosh are due to an external agent that is influencing him, his redemption is possible, and for this, it would be enough with eliminate the source of his corruption, so that Garrosh himself realizes the mistakes he has made. I personally hope that Garrosh does not end being foully murdered, but he is forgiven for his sins, even if it means some sort of punishment or degradation, but never kill him.
  
  
• • Garrosh Hellscream is a major hero of the Warcraft story, especially for the Horde. He is the son of the liberator of the orc race from the bondage of the Burning Legion, Grom Hellscream, and is a character full of nuances and connotations. It is too important to die in a raid. His future will certainly great things holds for, it would be a real shame to lose a character like Garrosh as well as thus. It is a character that can give much play in future events, whether redeemed or as if he is relegated to being a villain.
  
  Maybe Garrosh might redeem himself, however, it is clear that Garrosh has to stop being the Warchief, perhaps his future is not in the Horde, since the Horde may be too "soft" to have a leader like Garrosh. His future may be more like being a leader of a revived faction: the Dark Horde. The Dark Horde would be pleased to proclaim him as a leader and would benefit from Garrosh's full potential. A Dark Horde led by Garrosh Hellscream with the support of the Grimtotem tauren and Zandalari trolls servants of the Prophet Zul would form a faction certainly very interesting ... I'd bet on it.
  
  Whatever it is, Garrosh Hellscream deserves more than be the last boss in a raid!
  
  
• • Possibly related to the issue of Garrosh leaving the Horde one way or another, Thrall (Go'el from now) has confirmed his return to the Horde, that is, he leaves behind his neutrality as the shaman savior of the world and will return to interfere in the affairs of the Horde. But seems strange that the path that Go'el began in the early cataclysm can be undone, i.e. if Go'el had already chosen his destiny as the Earth-Warder, he cannot now return to the Horde: his time in the Horde has passed.
  
  Go'el's counterpart in the Alliance is Malfurion Stormrage, and as you know, he behaves himself neutral in all respects. Why would Go'el interfere in the Horde and Malfurion not do the same in the Alliance? It would be unfair to the Alliance, to put it delicately.
  
  
• • Go'el / Thrall returns to the Horde: is already confirmed. Whatever his role is hopefully the Alliance is reimbursed for some way, if not, again we will see clearly what is the Blizzard's favorite faction.
  
  But not only Go'el / Thrall's return to the Horde leaves the Alliance in a bad place, if not in this expansion, in which presumably the Alliance would recover all losses suffered at the hands of the Horde after cataclysm, the Alliance lost one of their capitals: Theramore is destroyed. How does Blizzard compensate the Alliance after these events? Very simple: an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth. Or another Horde capital is destroyed (something I do not support), or another "lost" city of the Alliance is recovered to replace Theramore, as Dalaran.
  
  So again, the Alliance needs to retrieve something after this whole debacle, and if we lose a city it is logical that we recover another. Dalaran and the Kirin Tor would be ideal as they cannot claim neutrality in a war that they bear directly and cannot hide no more their historical affiliation with the Alliance. If Thrall / Go'el leaves neutrality behind and returns to the Horde, I do not understand how the Kirin Tor could not do the same, especially in these circumstances.
  
  It is true that at present it seems that the loyalty of Dalaran, the Kirin Tor and Jaina are with the Alliance, but we'll see what happens when Garrosh is dethroned and he is no longer a threat to anyone ... Will Dalaran, the Kirin Tor and Jaina herself return to the uncomfortable state of neutrality imposed by her predecessor Rhonin? I'm afraid so, and that would be a kick in the teeth to all the Alliance (excluding the future neutralization of two more heroes of the Alliance: Alleria and Turalyon).

---

PD. By comparison:

• The "bland" soundtrack of Thrall's Orgrimmar -> http://www.goear.com/listen/244e619/orgrimmar-wow
• The "energetic" soundtrack of Garrosh's Orgrimmar -> http://www.goear.com/listen/e0547af/...vid-arkenstone

Which one inspires more fear, more respect, more power?

As a bonus, the soundtrack of Garrosh's Horde -> http://www.goear.com/listen/342c5e6/...ld-of-warcraft

Oh god.... Another crazy essay from Northem, though the lack of High elves or Calia surprises me...

[Trassk]

They weren't at War, so why the fuck should he?! Thrall launched War on the Legion, the Scourge, the Qiraji and just about any other threat before Cataclysm.

And the ironic thing is, Those forces were defeated or beaten back, with many of its commanders and leaders dead.

Yet, when you have garrosh try to attack the alliance.. how many major lore casualties has garrosh actually killed himself within the alliance?

Thralls stance on attacking the real major threats always won out in the end, and kept azeroth from being consumed by it.
Garrosh's stance on whipping out the alliance didn't only not lead to any major victory against them, but it lead to his own faction turning against him and the alliance beating him into a bloody mess.

People still try to convince themselves Garrosh is a good warchief? wouldn't the mantle of a good warchief be one who ACTUALLY WINS WARS?

[docterfreeze]

he doesn't need old god powers like that pussy of Garrosh that would never accomplish anything on his own.

I dunno, I think this is pretty impressive...



Didn't need sha powers to do that.

[Klingers]

Things change, both ideals and opinions. I don't know, maybe the Horde realized that what Thrall was doing was better overall for the Horde rather than just incessant war which destroys villages, zones, and decimates populations on both sides.

You also have to realize, the ORIGINAL Horde were basically peaceful when they came to Azeroth. They were escapees from the mindwarping demonic corruption on Draenor, and they attempted to live a better life. It wasn't really their fault they were turned into mindless killing machines, but they tried to better themselves. Thrall pushed that issue to its limits while he was in power, attempting to attain peace for his Horde. (Disclaimer: I'm am deliriously tired, I may be getting my lore messed up and be completely wrong -_-

This is completely wrong. The Horde was formed initially based on "visions" given to Ner'zhul by a disguised Kil'Jaeden. Despite laying the groundwork, Ner'zhul quickly became disgusted with what the Horde was becoming and Gul'dan used this weakness to usurp leadership and install Blackhand as a puppet Warchief.

Initially the Horde's aggression was turned towards the Draenei, however when about 90% of them had been wiped off the face of the map and the remainder had gone into hiding, the Horde started turning in on itself.

Gul'Dan recieved visions accross purple-glowy-crap-space from a Sargaras-infested Medivh, and the two of them opened the dark portal. The Orcs were very quickly riled up on Gul'Dan's behest by Blackhand, and the Horde poured through the dark portal with nothing but conquest and a bloodbath on their demonically-fried brains.

The Horde didn't recieve their "affirmation" until they'd had their arses handed to them at the end of the second war. It was only Thrall's journey that allowed them to be liberated from the camps, and rediscover their shamanistic heritage. On top of that, it was only during Warcraft 3 in Kalimdor that Grom Hellscream saccrificed his life to kill Mannoroth and end the blood curse.

That was heavily summarised. It's a fairly convoluted plotline.

[Lynneiah]

I think a lot of people think of Thrall wrongly. Thrall isn't shy of war, he just knows which wars are necessary to keep the horde safe and which he can't win. When he goes to war to protect the horde, he always goes for it and he doesn't need old god powers like that pussy of Garrosh that would never accomplish anything on his own.

Also, Thrall has faced a far more dangerous opponent, deathwing. Garrosh with sha powers isn't even remotely close to how powerful deathwing would have been if we didn't stop him, even though he was helped by the aspects, he still showed a lot of courage and leadership. That more than anything defines a true Warchief.

This. Thrall isn't a coward hippy Alliance lover. He simply uses his brain.

[Trassk]

this is going to sound kind of morbid saying it as a comparison, but it really stands as example of human ignorance even when faced with the obvious. I read a report, about a gay adult actor (take whatever you want from that), who after starring in several adult movies, ended up contracting aids. Yet, the guy himself convinced himself aids was a myth, that he wasn't infected, and didn't need any medication, carrying on doing what he did, and even probably infecting other guys.
This really sent alarm bells to how stupid and ignorant some people can be, to the point of ignoring the most blantently obvious staring them in the face.

I see several garrosh fans as this. Now if the person in question is someone who actually likes the idea of having a bad guy warcheif who does evil things, thats perfectly fine, you like your warchief being a c**t, all praise to you finding a relateable character.
But actually trying to convince yourself he isn't bad, what what he's doing is good for the horde, that all other characters are backstabbers against his great plan and that everything he's done is righteous.. yeah, your as bad as the adult actor I mentioned above. Its pure ignorance at its best.

[Trassk]

I dunno, I think this is pretty impressive...

Didn't need sha powers to do that.

Woooo he killed a purple dragon, soooooo impressive.

Thrall killed deathwing.

And Varian beheaded onyxia.

[docterfreeze]

And the ironic thing is, Those forces were defeated or beaten back, with many of its commanders and leaders dead.

Yet, when you have garrosh try to attack the alliance.. how many major lore casualties has garrosh actually killed himself within the alliance?

Thralls stance on attacking the real major threats always won out in the end, and kept azeroth from being consumed by it.
Garrosh's stance on whipping out the alliance didn't only not lead to any major victory against them, but it lead to his own faction turning against him and the alliance beating him into a bloody mess.

People still try to convince themselves Garrosh is a good warchief? wouldn't the mantle of a good warchief be one who ACTUALLY WINS WARS?

Isn't that why hes gathering this huge army? To finish the alliance once and for all?

[Trassk]

Isn't that why hes gathering this huge army? To finish the alliance once and for all?

And thus garrosh becomes the scourge/legion/twilight cult.

[docterfreeze]

Woooo he killed a purple dragon, soooooo impressive.

Thrall killed deathwing.

And Varian beheaded onyxia.

To be fair, onyxia was a big purple dragon too.

And thrall only killed deathwing because of the dragon soul, not from his powers ( those powers given to him because lolmetzen mind you)

[Lynneiah]

Woooo he killed a purple dragon, soooooo impressive.

Thrall killed deathwing.

And Varian beheaded onyxia.

Back in those days, I was killing purple dragons left and right. Not that impressive, agreed.

[Trassk]

To be fair, onyxia was a big purple dragon too.

And thrall only killed deathwing because of the dragon soul, not from his powers ( those powers given to him because lolmetzen mind you)

ooooh its the lolmetzen line because your soooo original!!

Really, just.. give it a rest. You made a poor choice of character, you have a fabricated view of that character, and you don't run with the story like other people do.
Why do you bother?