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  1. #21
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    Vengeance change makes the current power of SS already heavily nerfs, between both nerfs SS would probably only be worth about half as much as it is in live in any given scenario. An SS nerf was always likely, but they get it through vengeance. Would be surprised if it actually sticks.

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  2. #22
    Yep, I think they took a big slice in it, to see how it goes with high end gear and new vengeance system. If the nerf is too strong, I guess they'll go for a 15-20% nerf max, prot-only.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    And every RPPM proc dead with it so no synergy anymore with gear, gems, enchants, very exciting.


    Is it justifiable that GC will be broken vs a bunch of melee adds and completely useless if you're not getting hit or tanking a caster?
    Wouldn't it be better where it could be very strong with adds and not saying strong, but at least present while you're doing your own thing with your attacks? <-- cause that way (the way that makes sense) was the previous way not the new one, also, another nerf to haste here.


    Yup, everyone who didn't have haste to begin with.. but had crit.. and now they have riposte.


    I think you mean an immense amount of overhealing, that was always 3rd to Seal of Insight and Sacred Shield anyway.


    I thought the nerf for this was capped vengeance? why cap vengeance and nerf it 30%?

    Also why nerf it for Ret when it needed a buff for Ret, that one it's just plain unjustifiable.
    Apparently I missed another round of changes to vengeance and the way we're granted it. Have to come back to this.
    Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-08-03 at 09:18 PM.

  4. #24
    A nerf for ret is stupid. It was 25k bubble every 4.5 seconds or so. 75k of bubbles that you have to maintain a buff and only active on one target vs an instant fol with no buff maintenance and heals for 60% more on other players. It's like blizzard wanted SH to be the only possible choice for ret.

    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    Vengeance change makes the current power of SS already heavily nerfs, between both nerfs SS would probably only be worth about half as much as it is in live in any given scenario. An SS nerf was always likely, but they get it through vengeance. Would be surprised if it actually sticks.
    wouldn't vengeance changes nerf all the talents relatively equally?

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Weightlifter's Avatar
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    Nerfing it for ret was completely unnecessary. We don't have vengeance as ret so doesn't even absorb much. This will force all rets take Selfless Healer, as if they didn't already. Didn't Blizz say that they didn't want mandatory glyphs or talents for certain specs? Even with normal mode gear my haste is already so high that I rarely have to cast Judgement because there is almost always a higher prio spell available.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Weightlifter View Post
    Didn't Blizz say that they didn't want mandatory glyphs or talents for certain specs?
    That's only "For Say" not really ment to go by that line. There is and Always will be cookie cutter build no other choice since 6-7 years now they have repeated that line many times and always phailed to get it right.

    As with all the nerfs to paladins thus far, my Opinion and I've said it many times. Its time for a shift of power again as we see every xpac; What classes sucked will now be awsome and What classes were awsome its time to suck.

    With the SS nerf, Glyph nerfs (Nothing new to make up for it), skill nerfs Prot and Holy will fall from the top of the tree to middle or ground level of the tree for SoO (We held the Crown for 3 tiers in MoP )
    With the buffs in the last 2 patches Ret will rise from the middle of the tree to the top of tree ( Have fun while you can )

    Is all.
    Fin
    Last edited by Zellijin; 2013-08-05 at 04:59 AM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zellijin View Post
    With the buffs in the last 2 patches Ret will rise from the middle of the tree to the top of tree ( Have fun while you can )
    From the middle of the tree? I don't play ret myself, but Ret is far from the middle of the tree. If you take the best dps spec from each class bases on the logs from world of logs this is what you get:

    Don't take the rank below as an exact fact, it only gives an decent hint of how good or bad different classes are doing

    25 man heroic overall dps tier 15 top 100 from each spec:
    1. Mage - 338,289 dps
    2. Warlock - 325,614 dps
    3. Druid - 306,890 dps
    4. Priest - 295,741 dps
    5. Rogue - 275,503 dps
    6. Shaman - 263,364 dps
    7. Monk - 259,418 dps
    8. DK - 257,908 dps
    9. Hunter - 257,445 dps
    10. Warrior - 257,198 dps
    11. Paladin - 251,619 dps
    Source: http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00100000000000

    So without any buffs rets will most likely stay at the lower end of the three, with buffs rise to the middle and with huge buffs to the top half.

    I do think that rets deserves some buffs, they have been at the bottom half for many tiers now, I wouldn't mind to see ret at the top 4 while prot and holy would be a bit weaker for a tier or two.
    Last edited by Ater; 2013-08-05 at 09:11 AM.
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  8. #28
    Was out of town for the weekend, and I come back to this. /sadface

    Has there been any testing/clarification on what exactly the 30% is? Are we talking 30% off of the baseline shield, at which point the nerf would be pretty harmless? Or 30% off of the scaling, which would be pretty painful for Prot survival?
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Was out of town for the weekend, and I come back to this. /sadface

    Has there been any testing/clarification on what exactly the 30% is? Are we talking 30% off of the baseline shield, at which point the nerf would be pretty harmless? Or 30% off of the scaling, which would be pretty painful for Prot survival?
    To be honest, even if it is a flat 30% nerf with scaling and all, I am not too concerned, it still serves it purpose.
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  10. #30
    High Overlord Sevona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Was out of town for the weekend, and I come back to this. /sadface

    Has there been any testing/clarification on what exactly the 30% is? Are we talking 30% off of the baseline shield, at which point the nerf would be pretty harmless? Or 30% off of the scaling, which would be pretty painful for Prot survival?
    I think a 30 % "nerf" of the baseline shield wouldn't be noticable at all. Even if they reduce the vengeance-buffed shield by 30 % it wouldn't be too hard (but of course noticable). I checked my last logs and sacred-shield counted for 25-30 % healing done on me. So a 30 % nerf of that wouldn't be too harsh. Especially when I got overhealed by 55 % of all heals (and my own seal of insight overhealed me by 50-70 %).

    10m speaking here, where dmg-done on tanks is.....yeah you know^^ I could imagine for 25m this is a painful nerf.

    @Nairobi, funny thing: Was also out for the weekend and then come back to see this^^
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevona View Post
    I think a 30 % "nerf" of the baseline shield wouldn't be noticable at all. Even if they reduce the vengeance-buffed shield by 30 % it wouldn't be too hard (but of course noticable). I checked my last logs and sacred-shield counted for 25-30 % healing done on me. So a 30 % nerf of that wouldn't be too harsh. Especially when I got overhealed by 55 % of all heals (and my own seal of insight overhealed me by 50-70 %).

    10m speaking here, where dmg-done on tanks is.....yeah you know^^ I could imagine for 25m this is a painful nerf.

    @Nairobi, funny thing: Was also out for the weekend and then come back to see this^^
    Yeah it won't really be tangible in low-V situations, but I'm looking at all of the high-add/high-V situations where it really earns its keep, currently.

    Like, on HC DA, at the start I can currently 1) cap V, 2) not suffer DR on V from extra adds, and 3) get SS ticks of ~450-600k rolling.

    Now, yes, that is OP as hell, but we also build the strat around it. In 5.4, we're going to see:
    1) Vcap potentially dropped to 30% of what it is now, so ~225k instead of ~750k
    2) V DRing with amount of adds (details yet unknown, but sounds as though anything above n=2 will give progressively less V).
    and 3) SS reduced by 30%

    If it was JUST #1, the SS ticks would be ~250k tops. If it was JUST #2, we'd see ticks ~300-500k max, likely. If it was just #3, we'd see ticks ~200-420k.

    But adding them all together means (in this scenario) we'd be faced with ~180k SS ticks, which would pretty much gut the strategy, or at least make it far more prone to failure.

    That's my big concern: the times that we NEED those big SS ticks are the times we'll see the most drastic reductions in their efficacy. Thinking also about running up V prior to HC LS transitions, final phase HC Horri, or HC Empress when it was relevant, etc. Since SS is relatively "tame" at low to moderate V, it won't show as effective when scanning overall healing/absorbs in Skada, compared to key situations.

    I dunno, not panicking, just a bit confused/worried.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevona View Post
    I think a 30 % "nerf" of the baseline shield wouldn't be noticable at all. Even if they reduce the vengeance-buffed shield by 30 % it wouldn't be too hard (but of course noticable). I checked my last logs and sacred-shield counted for 25-30 % healing done on me. So a 30 % nerf of that wouldn't be too harsh. Especially when I got overhealed by 55 % of all heals (and my own seal of insight overhealed me by 50-70 %).

    10m speaking here, where dmg-done on tanks is.....yeah you know^^ I could imagine for 25m this is a painful nerf.

    @Nairobi, funny thing: Was also out for the weekend and then come back to see this^^
    ask yourself a question: if it's a barely noticeable nerf to base absorb, why would they implement it in the first place?

    I'm hinting at that it might not be only base absorb nerf.
    Sure as sure

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    ask yourself a question: if it's a barely noticeable nerf to base absorb, why would they implement it in the first place?

    I'm hinting at that it might not be only base absorb nerf.
    Cause Blizzard does dumb things and this could be aimed at nerfing ret pvp lol

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk Lyese's Avatar
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    Nerfed or not, it's a meterless source of mitigation for Prot. I think it'll trump SH and EF regardless of how much SS gets beaten by the nerd stick.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    Cause Blizzard does dumb things and this could be aimed at nerfing ret pvp lol
    If it's the former, then it compromises game quality and brings one to question himself "why would I play this game?".

    If it's the latter, then it makes no fething sense whatsover, and yet again compromises game quality and brings one to question himself "why would I play this game?".

    I find it amusing and disturbing at the same time.
    Sure as sure

  16. #36
    Okay. So now i actually found it. They nerf the shield with those 30%.
    OP should have listed all the changes though.
    The shield will be applied instantly, so if you get a hard hit, and it's not on cd you can shield yourself up with a nice big bubble right away(albeit 30% less than the current).
    Overall still more damage taken, but seems like it can be used as an extra emergency-button with that change, on top of the normal usage.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Okay. So now i actually found it. They nerf the shield with those 30%.
    OP should have listed all the changes though.
    The shield will be applied instantly, so if you get a hard hit, and it's not on cd you can shield yourself up with a nice big bubble right away(albeit 30% less than the current).
    Overall still more damage taken, but seems like it can be used as an extra emergency-button with that change, on top of the normal usage.
    and how does this "change" make it even remotely competative with SH for Ret?
    Sure as sure

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    and how does this "change" make it even remotely competative with SH for Ret?
    Who said that it does? o_O

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Who said that it does? o_O
    indeed.


    Which (yet again) brings one to question game quality and ask himself "why would I play this game?".
    Sure as sure

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    indeed.
    Which (yet again) brings one to question game quality and ask himself "why would I play this game?".
    Sorry, I excepted you to make any sense. My bad. -___-

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