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  1. #721
    Wait until you are on H Thok to see how ridiculous disc priests are with their Divine Star, I will paraphrase one of the priests in my raid who said that it feels like he has "a mini-orgasm everytime I push DS". Resto druids are also ridiculously good on that fight due to their instant cast spells toolkit, 100% glyph of efflorescence uptime and insane Tranquility healing.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by Placebo View Post
    That's not really the case in 10 man. Following the CH, free talent and HR buff, it'll be bloody rediculous.
    just out of curiosity, what makes your say that isn't really the case in 10 man group? personally, i still feel shaman are made to dominate stacking moments regardless of 10 or 25m raiding.

  3. #723
    Heroic logs are now working (for fights except Norushen), so the initial batch of overall Raidbots data is out, and it's fairly surprising.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111

    Shaman right now are in 4th place in heroics, and are coming in behind Monks, Druids and Disc Priests. For all of the complaints about Shaman needing to be nerfed, it appears that Shaman dominance really only is a normal mode phenomenon. In HM, we are middle of the pack at best, and are highly likely to slip as people overgear the fights more and our mastery is further degraded.

    Another thing to consider is that trinkets and tier are going to push us further behind. We gain far less from the cleave/multistrike trinkets than Monks or Druids, because they don't affect a good 40% of our output (they do not cleave/multistrike off water totem healing), whereas other classes are showing 5%+ throughput gains from them. We have a 2 piece that is decent but does not credit us with throughput, and a 4 piece that is completely terrible, whereas other classes like Monks and Druids gain 6%-10% output gains from 2 piece + 4 piece. I would not be surprised if we lose 10%-15% relative strength because our 4 piece is useless and we lack the trinket scaling of other classes due to terrible trinket design.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    Heroic logs are now working (for fights except Norushen), so the initial batch of overall Raidbots data is out, and it's fairly surprising.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111

    Shaman right now are in 4th place in heroics, and are coming in behind Monks, Druids and Disc Priests. For all of the complaints about Shaman needing to be nerfed, it appears that Shaman dominance really only is a normal mode phenomenon. In HM, we are middle of the pack at best, and are highly likely to slip as people overgear the fights more and our mastery is further degraded.

    Another thing to consider is that trinkets and tier are going to push us further behind. We gain far less from the cleave/multistrike trinkets than Monks or Druids, because they don't affect a good 40% of our output (they do not cleave/multistrike off water totem healing), whereas other classes are showing 5%+ throughput gains from them. We have a 2 piece that is decent but does not credit us with throughput, and a 4 piece that is completely terrible, whereas other classes like Monks and Druids gain 6%-10% output gains from 2 piece + 4 piece. I would not be surprised if we lose 10%-15% relative strength because our 4 piece is useless and we lack the trinket scaling of other classes due to terrible trinket design.
    don't think it really matters at this point, I don't see them buffing us again. Anyway going to back to my monk reroll plan. Although I don't like the lack of control they have in AE healing. Its not terribly different but something that takes getting used to.

    P.S
    they need to fix healing rain to heal the oozes that spawn off of immersius. Its not fair that druids efflo will heal them but ours won't. I'm tired of them running right over it and never getting a single heal.

  5. #725
    Deleted
    That data is skewed, sorry but monks aren't close to top in 25 heroic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No wonder, linking raw healing done is useless and I'm pretty sure you know that Tiberria. Doesn't account for outliers, i.e. Malkorok, where most raw healer classes are dragged down but monks are brought up by virtue of the fact Renewing Mist does not go on pets.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

    This is about as good as you'll get to an aggregate measurement, which is useless in itself anyway.

  6. #726
    Deleted
    I find the specscore metric far more useful than average HPS. Monk numbers are inflated only because of Malkorok and they're behind on pretty much every other boss. We're up there really close with druids and disc priests on 25 man and everyone else is a good few percentage points behind. I'm also somewhat surprised that other shamans are doing so much less healing than I do on Malkorok. I don't seem to have trouble reaching 300k+ HPS on normal Malkorok 25.

    I find balance is working out fairly well for us right now and it's close enough that if you are a better player than your co-healers, you'll often do more healing than they do. We might fall behind later, but this really is the time when balance matters the most. It'll be interesting to see the numbers on Paragons, Blackfuse and Garrosh.

    The cleave trinket has been doing an average of 3.4% of my healing for all normal mode kills last week, but 7.4% on our heroic norushen kill. It was even my third highest source of healing while ranking 12th on WoL for that fight. I'm more worried that it generates too much overhealing (80-90%) on most other fights. I honestly haven't seen many other healers that want the trinket.
    Last edited by mmoc6748418b85; 2013-10-03 at 11:39 AM.

  7. #727
    On the plus side, HTT was doing as much as 14 million healing per use on Heroic Thok last night (with ~20% overheal). This was with Berserking and with a 15,400 haste build. If I was using Elemental Mastery, it would be even more ridiculous. The mastery scaling on HTT on that fight is crazy.

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    That data is skewed, sorry but monks aren't close to top in 25 heroic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No wonder, linking raw healing done is useless and I'm pretty sure you know that Tiberria. Doesn't account for outliers, i.e. Malkorok, where most raw healer classes are dragged down but monks are brought up by virtue of the fact Renewing Mist does not go on pets.

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...00000000111111

    This is about as good as you'll get to an aggregate measurement, which is useless in itself anyway.
    Actually the reroll was for a different reason. While the output of resto shamans is a lot better now, there are still many QOL issues. For one i am a 10 man healer so half of what tiberria uses for his math doesn't apply to me. I was mostly against the healing rain change because it impacted a lot healer mechanics such as the ones on Immersius. Second is that monks have better versatility that becomes a factor in 10 mans that is ignored in 25 man. Thok for example you have to pretend to be a gimped druid in order to keep up during the high screeches. There are a lot of advantages i love about my shaman but its like pulling out my hair on many of the fights that i don't get with my monk. Either way i'm still playing a healer with a crap mastery.

  9. #729
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    On the plus side, HTT was doing as much as 14 million healing per use on Heroic Thok last night (with ~20% overheal). This was with Berserking and with a 15,400 haste build. If I was using Elemental Mastery, it would be even more ridiculous. The mastery scaling on HTT on that fight is crazy.
    Are you generally running with 15.4k haste or just while you're progressing on Thok?

  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by -swift View Post
    Are you generally running with 15.4k haste or just while you're progressing on Thok?
    I just switched to it for Thok progression (which I thought would take more than 1 raid night). I will probably switch it back to ~9100 haste some time next week, but I want to play with this build a bit first now that I am gemmed for it.

  11. #731
    Anybody running the samophlange trinket with heroic horridon? I do and I feel like I have infinite mana no matter how much I drop spirit (I'm at less than 11k now). Basically, the only way I can run oom is if I spam healing surge non stop lol. And so far my guild hasn't been very lucky with the amp trinket drops from Sha of Pride

  12. #732
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    @Tiberria: Based on your previous post (about the 15400 haste at Thok), I tried to re-gem for our raid to this breakpoint. I have only 556 ilvl, so I sacrificed a lot of stats, mainly intellect and spirit. I had to gem haste everywhere and sometimes also reforge from spirit. I ended up with 15326 haste, 4275 crit, 5128 mastery (w/ buff), 12942 spirit. I also have 530 HLG and 561 Samophlange. I never ran OOM and it felt much better than my usual 7613 haste -> int -> crit build. 1.0sec Healing Surges are awesome, I can fit 3 of them + 1 instant cast into a LMG proc. My HTT used to do 6-7M healing max on most of the fights, but yesterday, on Iron Juggernaut, it did 10M which, I think, is awesome. Also, my fire elemental does a little bit more damage, which can be useful on some fights (for example, we killed norushen H with few secs left on enrage (not enough raiders showed up :/ ) )

    Here are the logs for anyone who's interested (first 6 bosses on HC, except Sha)
    Immerseus: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/34qemf5yuglzjzkg/
    Rest: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cqg858oeweatnq2d/ (Norushen is skewed)
    Norushen (by me, I was upstairs all the time): http://worldoflogs.com/reports/lmulckg4zj1otkn7/


    btw. I hate disc priests :/

  13. #733
    Deleted
    I pity you for having to run with 3 disc priests. That must be tough.

  14. #734
    I tried to get to the ~15326 haste break point for funsies at 555ilvl. I was not prepared. Now I just look like a nurd who doesn't know how sockets work. =) was kinda fun anyways I miss stacking haste.

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