1. #1

    RPPM Trinket changes?

    From what I understand once an assassination rogue hits 2/3 RPPM items there's been a general change to how stat weight making haste even over value mastery with a great debate of white is better haste v. mastery with some swearing up and down that one is the best and the other that the other is the best and others that a mixture is better.

    But, with the changes that blizzard posted about as well as the inclusion of some of the old style of ICD trinkets how will that effect haste for assassination rogues? Will haste's value be lowered enough that mastery will be the clear winner and people will no longer reforge out of mastery to haste? Will it stay the same? Will hastes value be diminished low enough that crit will be a more desirable stat again? Instead of haste/mastery stats being best to have on gear will crit/mastery be better?

    Currently I still like mastery over haste even with 3/3 RPPM items and I generally have tried to gear with once I have hit/exp cap trying to get the rest of my gear to have both haste/mastery and any piece I have with crit/mastery reforging the crit into haste but mastery always being the top priority. Do you think this will change with the RPPM/old ICD trinkets?

  2. #2
    I pretty much agree, Mastery will be the top by far. Haste and crit would have been roughly equal without any tier pieces, but this t16 favours crit so that immediately gives us: Mastery > crit > haste.

    Problem is too much mastery means haste goes up in value, so I would wait for some theorycrafting to come in before worrying too much.

  3. #3
    For assassination: Haste drops in value but is still ahead of crit because of the legendary meta gem. Crit and haste approximately equal in value with T16 2pc.
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  4. #4
    I dont understand one bit the table in the mmo champ news , maybe my english isn't as good as i thought.I was assuming with the old mechanic haste will pull even more with the legendary cloak due to the fact more attacks - more procs on it .Two rppm trinks + meta mean haste is better atm and with the cloak it would mean that even more.Since i am completely lost on the new change can anyone explain with simpler words what do they change exactly

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehr86 View Post
    I dont understand one bit the table in the mmo champ news , maybe my english isn't as good as i thought.I was assuming with the old mechanic haste will pull even more with the legendary cloak due to the fact more attacks - more procs on it .Two rppm trinks + meta mean haste is better atm and with the cloak it would mean that even more.Since i am completely lost on the new change can anyone explain with simpler words what do they change exactly
    From how I understand it is they're nerfing haste v. rppm procs. So right now haste does more than it should making it stronger than they intended so they're taking steps to remedy this.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmgewehr86 View Post
    I dont understand one bit the table in the mmo champ news , maybe my english isn't as good as i thought.I was assuming with the old mechanic haste will pull even more with the legendary cloak due to the fact more attacks - more procs on it .Two rppm trinks + meta mean haste is better atm and with the cloak it would mean that even more.Since i am completely lost on the new change can anyone explain with simpler words what do they change exactly
    Haste will only affect the gem and the cloak. Dancing steel, trinkets and anything else won't be affected, making haste worse.

  7. #7
    They don't want double dipping. So cloak and meta-gem will largely be un-changed by the nerf to RPPM. Renataki's/Bad Juju will get nerfed hard. The "double-dip" means that haste increases to chance of the trinkets to proc, and the trinket procs are increased by haste. If you have 8k agility with Bad Juju up and a ton of haste to go with it, it scales absurdly well.

    I think that's an absolutely ridiculous argument, and if Blizzard's decided they don't like the way it works, they should have given us more time to test it, but they do what they want.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    They don't want double dipping. So cloak and meta-gem will largely be un-changed by the nerf to RPPM. Renataki's/Bad Juju will get nerfed hard. The "double-dip" means that haste increases to chance of the trinkets to proc, and the trinket procs are increased by haste. If you have 8k agility with Bad Juju up and a ton of haste to go with it, it scales absurdly well.

    I think that's an absolutely ridiculous argument, and if Blizzard's decided they don't like the way it works, they should have given us more time to test it, but they do what they want.
    I'm a 545 rogue and with about 12k haste it's "absolutely ridiculous". Getting procs far more frequently and during that 20s window, the output is very high. As much as it may seem like they should have tested it more, when they were first released nobody had the haste levels they do now and they simply didn't feel as powerful.

    I would prefer that they address problems rather than leave them out, despite something that possibly could have been foreseen.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    From how I understand it is they're nerfing haste v. rppm procs. So right now haste does more than it should making it stronger than they intended so they're taking steps to remedy this.
    I don't think nerfing haste for assassination was really the point. This was because certain dot classes could line up massive damage procs and keep their dots at insane levels.

  10. #10
    That was the reason beyond the 90 second part I think. The general nerfing of uptime on these trinkets by LARGE degrees puts the lie to the claim it was about casters- given that the nerfs were decided on a per trinket basis, I don't think a like 30% nerf to bad juju was because caster.

  11. #11
    It wasn't about classes, it was about trinkets scaling exponentially with haste.

  12. #12
    And how is that a problem? Everyone benefitted from it, but now it gets nerfed as a major content patch releases? I get the feeling that Blizzard's gonna look back on 5.4 and regret this.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    And how is that a problem? Everyone benefitted from it, but now it gets nerfed as a major content patch releases? I get the feeling that Blizzard's gonna look back on 5.4 and regret this.
    When almost every class puts haste ahead of anything it trivialises reforging...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It wasn't about classes, it was about trinkets scaling exponentially with haste.
    Or rather, looking forward, the issue was that the trinkets improve not just because you make better use of the proc with better gear, but that better gear makes the proc occur more often (through haste - yes, but meaning that better gear further improves the trinket and not just the other way around). As haste levels rise naturally, the trinket... gets better. Given enough haste, Bad Juju and RSC would overtake some of next tier's ICD trinkets. Even if that haste level isn't attainable, Blizzard really isn't a fan of leaving that kind of thing in place.

    Not specifically with dots, but yes, UVLS and RoR would become serious problems with another tier of haste - maintaining critical Doom as Demonology, fully RoR-TF-Agiproc buffed Rip/Rake as feral, (what would have been) HUGE uptime on RoR-buffed mastery for WW monks... extreme power. These were trinkets whose proc rate was increased significantly by haste (exacerbated by next tier's value) but which confer bonuses best seen on a small uptime scale - check the logs for any Spriest/Demo-lock/AffLock using UVLS for Perfect Aim uptime, and compare to a parse where they didn't shine - it's noticeable when it procs a lot. Same with RoR for feral and WW.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    When almost every class puts haste ahead of anything it trivialises reforging...
    Great. Haste is a good stat. It's not something you change as you release a major content patch.

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