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  1. #1

    What do you think about Israel Survey?

    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    2. Why do you support Israel?
    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?

    Thank you for your help!

  2. #2
    You really couldn't fit this question into one of the multiple threads about Israel going on right now?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Merkava View Post
    You really couldn't fit this question into one of the multiple threads about Israel going on right now?
    Wouldn't traffic enough attention for the research that I am doing.

  4. #4
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
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    1. No
    2. I don't
    3. Israel
    4. Yes
    5. Australian, Liberal, White, Atheist
    Hi

  5. #5
    Interesting thread, thanks for posting this. I hope the moderators don't lock this for "nation bashing."

    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    Yes.

    2. Why do you support Israel?
    I believe that they are perhaps the only truly free country in the region and that their nation upholds many values that I support. For instance, Israelis had to fight for their independence against the British (similar to the American Revolution), Israelis believe in gun ownership, Israel utilizes universal conscription and Israel is a democratic state that respects the rights of all religious groups. In addition, I believe that if the Palestinians/Arabs laid down their weapons, there would be peace; whereas if the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be genocide.

    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    Only Israel.

    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    No. I believe that someone can oppose Israel without being racist.

    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?
    American. Independent (lean Republican). White. Atheist.
    Last edited by Nakura Chambers; 2013-08-04 at 07:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Zoranon's Avatar
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    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    Generally speaking, yes.

    2. Why do you support Israel?
    The only reasonably free state in the middle-east, also I find their fight against numerically greater enemy forces inspiring.

    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    One state solution is an insane nonsense, only supported by people who hate Israel, such a state would, due to demographics purge its Jews, sooner rather than later. The best case scenario would be for other Arab states to take Gaza and West bank in, but that is unlikely to happen, given how destabilising the Palestinians have proved to be.

    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    Sometimes, not always.

    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?
    Czech, libertarian, white, agnostic
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Don't see what's wrong with fighting alongside Nazi Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    someone who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

  7. #7
    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    Not all of them, but some:
    I do not support the settlements, they're just around due to religion-inspired agendas (because god promised us Israel, we should take ALL OF IT to ourselves mentality), Imo, giving these parts to the Palestinians can give us peace, which saves lives, which is alot more important than some land anyhow...
    I do support Israel's millitary operations in the Gaza strip though, Hamas is a terrorist organization, and should be dealt with as such.
    The West-Bank is a different story though, aslong as Hamas don't control that region (and they do have a foothold there that's getting stronger and stronger) I think Israel and the Palestinian government (led by Abu-Mazen) should try and cooperate with eachother and try and establish peace (which is never gonna happen.... but ohwell).

    2. Why do you support Israel?
    I support Israel's right to exist, I do not support some of it's choices, and their reasoning behind those said choices (explained above).
    Non the less, Jews were never very popular, they were butchered, systemtically purged, and lived as 2nd or worse class citizens in many nations (christian & muslim), and anti-semitism and Jew-hate is obviously here to stay.... it's only getting stronger and stronger nowadays...
    Jews should have their own country were they're the majority.
    Also, the obvious reason, Israel is the only democracy in the Middle-East, engulffed by a cloud of muslim-fundemantlism & terrorism...
    untill Islam doesn't start to give in to secularism (which I doubt it will ever will), Israel is kind of a shield soaking all the "Muslim Wrath" from the rest of the Western World.
    Yes, there is also Jewish fundementalism, but the difference is how widespread and acceptable it is:
    In Israel, if a Jewish fundementalist does an act in violation of the law against muslims, he will be condemned and punished accordingly.
    If an Israeli, even a minister, or a member of the parliment, makes a racist remark towards muslims or arabs, he will also be comdemned and forced to apologize or worse.
    In the West-Bank, or the Gaza Strip, if somebody does the same things, or worse (acts of terrorism), he will be praised and hailed as a hero, murderers occur on both sides (but mainly on the palestinian one), but the difference is the reaction:
    In Israel it is not socially acceptable, it is frowned upon.
    In the West-Bank & Gaza - celebrated.


    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    Two-States, I don't give much f**k about Jerusalem, but I can understand why it is important for religious people of both parties, BUT:
    It's the holiest place for Jews on earth, and "only" the 3rd holiest place for Muslims, thus, since muslims already control the entire region, I support Israel's claim over Jerusalem, under the following restrictions: Palestine should have the control over Al-Aktza Mosq (which they kinda already do), and assuming there is peace, Jerusalem should be an open city for Palestinian visitors, and ofc Muslim tourists from all over the world (the latter is already established).
    In a perfect world, I would not support this notion, because, wether you'd like it or not, Palestinians are not actually a people, they were driven to be just recently (~70 years) due to the foundation of Israel, but mainly due to the reluctancy to accept them from the surrounding arab-muslim nations as a leverage to keep hurting Israel's image in the eyes of the world... they're just arabs.
    But the world isn't perfect, and imo, you got to be smart and not right, acknowledging a Palestinian state, and having peace with it, will only do good things for Israel, inspite of it being a blow intially, it will give Israel alot of legitimacy to defend itself if inspite of the 2 states co-existing terrorism still occurs - which is a win-win situation imo:
    Moderate peace + Legitimacy in exercising it's millitary prowness when needed.


    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    I would not, but only if the person is well informed and is familiar with the the topic, most aren't, and take what they know from propoganda (mainly muslim one) and various news channels with their own agendas (ratings).
    It's extremley hard to tell who dislikes Israel (and possibly Jews) for legitimate reasons, and who's just a hater...

    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?
    Israeli, none (Liberal, secular), mixed? (Jewish + European ancestry), Atheist.
    Last edited by Falu; 2013-08-04 at 12:49 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalian View Post
    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    2. Why do you support Israel?
    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?

    Thank you for your help!
    1: To a degree.
    2: They seem better than the realistic alternatives.
    3: I believe any "solution" should be entirely up to the parties involved.
    4: In literally no way is not supporting Israel racist.
    5: U.S., Libertarian, Caucasian, Atheist.

  9. #9
    I guess I should post my own as well.

    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    No, but I don't hate the country itself.
    2. Why do you support Israel?
    I don't.
    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    Mine would be a fourth option of a united secular republic.
    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    Not at all, just as it isn't racist to question Kim Jong Un's Korea.
    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?
    America, Socialist, European Caucasian, Atheist.

  10. #10
    Brewmaster soulcrusher's Avatar
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    1. Do you support Israel's actions? what actions? illegal settlements? stealing land from palestinians? funding terror in syria? NO
    2. Why do you support Israel? I dont.
    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine? only Palestine.
    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel? No. I consider it racist to support them.
    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion? Scottish. Non political. White.

    you support this?

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...26287773_o.jpg

    Please do not post extremely oversized images.
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2013-08-05 at 02:59 AM.

  11. #11
    Israel and Palestine should combine as a nation to form the world's first true Atheist country.

    It's the only solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont care if they are allowed to donate, but I think we should have an option to refuse gay blood if we need to receive blood.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Zoranon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalian View Post
    I guess I should post my own as well.

    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    No, but I don't hate the country itself.
    2. Why do you support Israel?
    I don't.
    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    Mine would be a fourth option of a united secular republic.
    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    Not at all, just as it isn't racist to question Kim Jong Un's Korea.
    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?
    America, Socialist, European Caucasian, Atheist.
    Where do you get your information from? Because to be quite frank, if you compare Israel to NK, I don't see much hope of your thesis ever succeeding. Your supported solution is also a nonsense which will never be accepted by Jews, so I have to wonder why do you write about a country you strongly dislike.
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Don't see what's wrong with fighting alongside Nazi Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    someone who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalian View Post
    I guess I should post my own as well.

    1. Do you support Israel's actions?
    No, but I don't hate the country itself.
    2. Why do you support Israel?
    I don't.
    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?
    Mine would be a fourth option of a united secular republic.
    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?
    Not at all, just as it isn't racist to question Kim Jong Un's Korea.
    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?
    America, Socialist, European Caucasian, Atheist.
    Looking at your 3rd answer, one can only assume you're not very familliar with the topic:

    While Israel is mainly secular (secular-jews), it will not agree to be just a secular state, it cannot risk one of it's primary purposes of establishing a nation for Jews to be safe in by allowing another minority to eventually become bigger than the Jewish population (notice when I say Jewish, I don't mean religious Jews, I mean it from an ethnicity point of view, for example, I'm an Atheist-Jew, like you're an Atheist-American, Jews are a people, not just a religion).
    This, imo, is completely understandable; Wether you'd like it or not, anti-semitism, is well engraved in the minds of many people around the world, mainly due to them being ignorant (as most people are).

    Palestinians would never agree to this aswell, as:
    1. Unlike Israel, most Palestinians (and Arabs for that matter), are religious, about 99.5% are Muslims, alot of them devout, secularism does not exist.
    2. Islam > Democracy.
    These reasons are also understandable, though I cannot support religion personally.


    @ Soulcrusher,
    You're a great example of brainless propoganda, every time I see one of your many posts on the subject, you refuse debating with logic, the notion of thinking objectively seems to be unfamilliar to you.
    Pictures of children suffering are meaningless without the information behind them, throwing crude slogans (which are nothing more than that) is not appropriate for a legitimate discussion.
    To you I advise trying to take a step back and look at the facts, I'm not saying Israel is right and you are wrong, I'm just saying there are 2 sides to every coin, and you ought to atleast recognise that.
    I don't wanna go to personal levels, but you ought to try and communicate on the matter in a more intelligent way.
    Last edited by Falu; 2013-08-04 at 08:31 AM.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Zoranon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falu View Post
    Looking at your 3rd answer, one can only assume you're not very familliar with the topic:

    While Israel is mainly secular (secular-jews), it will not agree to be just a secular state, it cannot risk one of it's primary purposes of establishing a nation for Jews to be safe in by allowing another minority to eventually become bigger than the Jewish population (notice when I say Jewish, I don't mean religious Jews, I mean it from an ethnicity point of view, for example, I'm an Atheist-Jew, like you're an Atheist-American, Jews are a people, not just a religion).
    This imo is completely understandable, wether you'd like it or not, anti-semitism, is well engraved in ther minds of many people worldwide, mainly due to them being ignorant (as most people are).

    Palestinians would never agree to this aswell, as:
    1. Unlike Israel, most Palestinians (and Arabs for that matter), are religious, about 99.5% are Muslims, alot of them devout, secularism does not exist.
    2. Islam > Democracy.
    Yep, a atheistic state in the middle east is a pipe dream. A greater obstacle than that are simple demographics: the new state would soon have a Muslim majority and I think we all know how would that end...
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Don't see what's wrong with fighting alongside Nazi Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    someone who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    1. Do you support Israel's actions?

    No

    2. Why do you support Israel?

    I don't support them.

    3. Do you believe in a two state solution or only Israel or Palestine?

    I'd like there to be an independent Palestine separate from Israel yes. It seems like the best possible solution with all things considered.

    4. Would you personally consider it racist to not support Israel?

    This question doesn't even make sense. Not only are the inhabitants of Israel not a race but even if they were, I believe agreeing with someone just because of their race of ethnicity is racist. Leave that out and judge them by what they do instead..

    5. What is your nationality, political party, race and religion?

    American, Republican, White, Christian.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoranon View Post
    Where do you get your information from? Because to be quite frank, if you compare Israel to NK, I don't see much hope of your thesis ever succeeding. Your supported solution is also a nonsense which will never be accepted by Jews, so I have to wonder why do you write about a country you strongly dislike.
    Your comment was based on a strawman argument. I never compared them to North Korea, I merely used North Korea as an example of a country who's government's politics I question.

  17. #17
    1. Some.
    2. Because while their hands may not be clean in all of this, no ones is. That's not to say I ignore the stunts they pull, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed their country.
    3. Two state. The specifics are rather difficult to iron out because both sides have an ingrained distrust and dislike, both for good reasons, of the other side.
    4. Nope, not at all.
    5. American, Independent, White, Agnostic.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Falu View Post
    Looking at your 3rd answer, one can only assume you're not very familliar with the topic:

    While Israel is mainly secular (secular-jews), it will not agree to be just a secular state, it cannot risk one of it's primary purposes of establishing a nation for Jews to be safe in by allowing another minority to eventually become bigger than the Jewish population (notice when I say Jewish, I don't mean religious Jews, I mean it from an ethnicity point of view, for example, I'm an Atheist-Jew, like you're an Atheist-American, Jews are a people, not just a religion).
    This, imo, is completely understandable; Wether you'd like it or not, anti-semitism, is well engraved in the minds of many people around the world, mainly due to them being ignorant (as most people are).

    Palestinians would never agree to this aswell, as:
    1. Unlike Israel, most Palestinians (and Arabs for that matter), are religious, about 99.5% are Muslims, alot of them devout, secularism does not exist.
    2. Islam > Democracy.
    These reasons are also understandable, though I cannot support religion personally.


    @ Soulcrusher,
    You're a great example of brainless propoganda, every time I see one of your many posts on the subject, you refuse debating with logic, the notion of thinking objectively seems to be unfamilliar to you.
    Pictures of children suffering are meaningless without the information behind them, throwing crude slogans (which are nothing more than that) is not appropriate for a legitimate discussion.
    To you I advise trying to take a step back and look at the facts, I'm not saying Israel is right and you are wrong, I'm just saying there are 2 sides to every coin, and you ought to atleast recognise that.
    I don't wanna go to personal levels, but you ought to try and communicate on the matter in a more intelligent way.
    I debate that Israel is a secular state when it's government appears to promote religious supremacy and I personally believe that attempting to keep one race the majority to be a racist policy. If that was done in the United States for European Caucasians (I say this because Persians, Jews, Arabs and North Africans are Caucasian too), the world would throw a fit.

  19. #19
    1. No, they do not seek to solve the problem, they instigate, both sides acts as children but Israel should have been mature enough to act like a mature country.
    2. I don't support either sides.
    3. A Two-State solution is the best solution.
    4. No.
    5. Danish, Social Democrat, Caucasian, Atheist.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalian View Post
    I debate that Israel is a secular state when it's government appears to promote religious supremacy and I personally believe that attempting to keep one race the majority to be a racist policy. If that was done in the United States for European Caucasians (I say this because Persians, Jews, Arabs and North Africans are Caucasian too), the world would throw a fit.
    Israel does not promote religious supremacy, it promotes historical supremacy (which is understandably debateable/questionable anyhow).
    Some of the people who vote for certain parties indeed do this from a religious standpoint, but it is not the official reasoning, and should never be.

    Remember, Israel & Palestine aren't a single state yet, and will probably never be.
    I merely gave the reasoning behind why they would not agree to your propoisition.

    Israel's current demography has about 23% arab muslims, they are considered Israelis by the state, and have all the liberties and freedoms any other Israeli enjoys, they have parties respresnting them & they parcticipate in the molding of their country politically every day, so your point about racism sponsored by the state is invalid.
    Israel does have it's share of racism though: As an Israeli, I can see how much dislike arabs and muslims can get from certain Jews, the difference is, unlike in the Palestinian territories where racism and hatred towards Jews is encouraged and celebrated, in Israel, racism is discouraged and frowned upon.
    In recent times, some foul people (imo) managed to enter the political scene via right-winged parties, and some of them are definetly racist, the political scene is slowly shifting towards the right, which is bad (also imo), and religious jews are getting a bigger say in how things run in this country....
    The lack of sympathy, and the world's disapproval of Israel's actions due to the superior muslim-propoganda, in addition to being threatened by terrorist organizations from the south (Hamas), and the north (Hezbollah), with Iran, and others standing in the shadows has led many Israelis to feel abandoned upset and frustrated, pushing them into the bossom of religion, and the right-wing parties... but still, wer a democracy, and inspite of these worrying changes, there is hope, alot are facing this big shift right from within, many people are fighting for the values of secularism and equality, including Israel's supreme court, democracy is still going strong here, the people fight for the values people like Yitzhak Rabin (in his later years) inherited to this country.
    Many arabs who are Israeli citizens consider themselves Israeli, and many don't, they're both equal in the eyes of the state.
    Jews & Arabs (Christian or Muslim) can get along and mingle in Israel, some don't, there are racists and fundementalists on both sides, but that's how it is... aslong as there is religion... right?
    Last edited by Falu; 2013-08-04 at 09:11 AM.

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