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  1. #1
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    A friend and I looking to get back into raiding - what else can we do?

    Hey all. A friend and I raided in WotLK and early Cata, we were 13/13hc ICC and had full clear on ulduar hard modes, but we stopped raiding once Cata was released to take a break from the game and we've PVPed since about a year before MOP was released. From what I can see, the entire system of raids / gearing up has changed, no longer can you find feasible epics in dungeons, valor seems mandatory to cap every week, etc. We've started running some LFRs and have been doing HC scenarios to grind out some valor to get trinkets first, then upgrades on gear that we've gotten, etc.. but what else can we do while we're still looking for a guild? At this point we're half PVE gear, half PVP gear, due to the fact that we haven't PVE'd at ALL this expansion, so it's near impossible to find a guild that would let us raid, and I don't really blame them. However, it feels endless to replace this PVP gear. So - is it really worth buying BOEs off the AH if they are an upgrade of 20 item levels? Do we really have to do dailies every single moment of the game to get lesser charms? It feels like such a hassle, to mindlessly quest in order to get a small chance at extra loot. does it really make that big of a difference?

    And yes, I do know about Mr. Robot's upgrade system, we've been using that a lot ^_^

    edit: should note we're looking into doing 25m raiding, we don't particularly enjoy 10m. if there's any servers that are mostly 25m, let me know, but from what i can tell it's pretty scattered
    Last edited by Malgru; 2013-08-06 at 04:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Do you have proof of your previous raiding experience?
    If you do; presenting that to a guild currently in farm will probably get you in a decently progressing guild if you still understand how to play your class correctly and just study up fights.

    And it's worth it to farm for coins to get Mogu Charms for ToT yes.
    Also make sure you do the Treasure run on the isle every week for 20 Elder Charms and spend those in LFR of the previous tier if you still need that gear, they have increased the chance of getting loot from those by a ton.

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Do you have proof of your previous raiding experience?
    If you do; presenting that to a guild currently in farm will probably get you in a decently progressing guild if you still understand how to play your class correctly and just study up fights.

    And it's worth it to farm for coins to get Mogu Charms for ToT yes.
    Also make sure you do the Treasure run on the isle every week for 20 Elder Charms and spend those in LFR of the previous tier if you still need that gear, they have increased the chance of getting loot from those by a ton.
    My friend does, I do not. I got rid of my old acct, then my friend gave me his second acct when we wanted to start playing again. they weren't linked, so.. no achieves. Whole buncha stupid stuff I shouldn't have done, but whatever. thanks for the tips!

  4. #4
    AH ilvl 522 BoEs are a shortcut to gear for sure. So if you can afford that, it's worth it. If you apply to a guild in 476 ilvl-ish gear, it certainly looks like you want a quick boost to some items etc.

    Farming lesser charms isn't so bad. Just don't do it with dailies. If you are on a semi empty server, you can kill the world rare mobs. That's only worth it if they are typically up. If every second you check isn't up, it's too much of a hassle. The fastest way is easily to AoE down mobs in barrens. If you check for Barrens Charm Farming on youtube, I am sure you'd find something. If you can find a group of people through gulid, trade or openraid, you can farm up to 300 charms per hour there. That's certainly worth the effort every few weeks.

    The fastest way to gear up is for ToT is through tier 14 normal raids. Again, openraid.eu is the best way to find groups for that. Unfortunately a lot of raid leaders there 9as usually) want you to have both the achievements for thsoe instances and way higher gear level then is really needed. But combined with the weekly solo instance on Isle of Thunder providing you with roughly 15 of those greater charms per week (and blizzard having increased the chance to coin gear in T14 to 20-30%), gearing up with 489 to 496 gear in there is by far the fastest way to get reasonable gear.
    If you combine that with 1-2 ilvl 522 crafts and get a 516 item from the heroic scenario cache here and there, you can get to ilvl ~505ish within 2-3 weeks easily. That in return should be enough to apply to a guild doing ToT normals.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Malgru, depending on your server, I'd look for some pug runs. You could pad the lowest ilvl gear with some Conquest gear, or try and get a social spot in a decent raiding guild. I just accepted a Hunter who transferred to my server, posted in trade, that he was new on the server and looking for a social spot in a guild that had alt runs. He had no Normal exp but honestly, none is required if you have half a brain. He told me, he'd look at videos for all encounters and he came really prepared.

    I mean, maybe you can find such a guild? OpenRaid is an option as well, in terms of getting 496 gear and it leaves a good impression that you've put in some effort in gearing.

    Other than that, the last night before the reset tends to be the best shot for inexperienced players. People are willing to take the chance, since it's either that or not killing anything at all that reset.

  6. #6
    With gear below 500 I'm not sure that solo farming mobs in barrens is the fastes way to obtain lesser charms. As 538 hunter it took me about half an hour to collect 50+ lesser charms. Every pull 20+ mobs and aoe them down. But as 498 resto/balance druid 5 mobs is max. And solo it take ages ;] But I play on vey high populated server so there is always some groups
    Farm VP (rand hc scen), crafts and LFR. Most guild wants 510+ to raid normals. And achievment ;] Blizz has massivly changed gearing system which is fair to those who raid constantly. But pain in the ass for alts and people who want to start raiding.

  7. #7
    You're in a bit of a bad situation, with one tier beeing at an end atm, and a nw one starting within the the next 4 weeks or so.
    Although there are still a lot of things you can do atm.

    I hit 90 on my rogue twink 2 weeks ago, it has ilvl 485/489 atm.
    Guildie of mine is even above 500 already, same timespan, lucky son of a D:

    Anyways, first of all, get hc dungeon gear, some pvp items (which you already have) and whatever quest or rep items you can get.
    502 boots from the pandaren quest line, items from worldbosses, 522 neck from the new raid faction.

    Run LFR as soon as you can, do the thunder isle treasure run scenario to get enough charms to roll on every boss, farm lesser charms on rare mobs and get mogu runes for Nalak and ToT LFR.

    Do the quest for hc scenarios, for a guaranteed 516 item and do hc scenarios anyways.

    Depending on how active and lucky you guys are, you can get to around 500 within a week or 2 pretty easily.

    Thats enough for ToT normal, so you can try to pug.

    Also, depending on what certain guilds might look for, they will also gear up lower chars, given you can play decently enough.

    From experience, definitely go for 25 man, 10 man gearing is atrocious, especially with the higher droprate for thunderforged items in 25 man.

  8. #8
    Do the quest for hc scenarios, for a guaranteed 516 item and do hc scenarios anyways.
    Guaranteed? what kind of guarantee is that? Ever week on my hunter a get 1-2 useless 516 items... On my druid alt for three weeks I did not get any piece of gear It's based on RNG not guarantee. Correct me in I'm wrong

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    Guaranteed? what kind of guarantee is that? Ever week on my hunter a get 1-2 useless 516 items... On my druid alt for three weeks I did not get any piece of gear It's based on RNG not guarantee. Correct me in I'm wrong

    I think he's referring to the very first Heroic Scenario you do. The quest you hand in, is 100% to give you an item. But that's just the first one though.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dzidek View Post
    Blizz has massivly changed gearing system which is fair to those who raid constantly. But pain in the ass for alts and people who want to start raiding.
    I guess you're playing not very long then? WoW has never been more friendly gearing up for the current raiding tier then it is now. Gearing up for raids got easier every expansion and we're on the peak right now. Took me 3 resets to get a new monk to ilvl 505 on one spec and 495 on the other without doing any guild-alt raids or the like, just with crafts, heioc scenario, world bosses and openraid groups. That was much tougher in cataclysm, hardly possible in wotlk and unthinkable in TBC and Vanilla.
    Either way, I had all the raiding achievements so it was much easier for me to get into groups then it will be for the OP. Most PUGs still advertise 'LFM for instance X - link achievement to have cleared X on normal' and typically ask you to have an average item level similar to what drops in the instance. Getting into groups is the only really problematic part.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaib View Post
    I guess you're playing not very long then? WoW has never been more friendly gearing up for the current raiding tier then it is now. Gearing up for raids got easier every expansion and we're on the peak right now. Took me 3 resets to get a new monk to ilvl 505 on one spec and 495 on the other without doing any guild-alt raids or the like, just with crafts, heioc scenario, world bosses and openraid groups. That was much tougher in cataclysm, hardly possible in wotlk and unthinkable in TBC and Vanilla.
    Either way, I had all the raiding achievements so it was much easier for me to get into groups then it will be for the OP. Most PUGs still advertise 'LFM for instance X - link achievement to have cleared X on normal' and typically ask you to have an average item level similar to what drops in the instance. Getting into groups is the only really problematic part.
    I agree with you, that it's easy enough to gear up. I mean, I was lvl 89 Sunday night, got boosted through MSV, HoF and ToES by my guildies to get gear. Dinged 90 after a few monkey runs, bought some crated stuff and then jumped straight into ToT LFR. Didn't really get anything from there though, but I still had the ilvl to get in. But the thing is, if you're a new player who doesn't have the luxury of getting boosted by guildies and don't have a ton of gold to spend on 522 crafted items, it can be a bit harder - at least it will take you a bit longer. My Paladin is ready to tank an alt run tomorrow, although I did get boosted in our alt run on the bosses we didn't do on Heroic^^^

    Point being, it can be hard for players who've been on a break, who are new or inexperienced. You have to put in some effort and depending on RNG it will take longer than for people already established.

  12. #12
    @kaib
    Take a look at for example DS time. From 5-men you got 378 epic gear, same gear as you got from FL 10-man (tier earlier). Comparing it to today you should get 489/496 gear from 5-men. And what you get now? 463. See the difference?
    Same was tier earlier. During FL, you can get 353 tier from 5-men, when raid tier earlier was 359.
    Taka a loot into ICC tier. From 5-men you get 232 what it was similar (i dont remeber right now exact numbers) to gear from raid tier earlier.

    Back in the days you can gear up for raiding in few days, just from 5-men. Now you need to 5-men, dailies, craft, rand hc scen and LFR. Still believe that it is now easier? Surely there are more options righ know, but it takes a lot more time.
    Last edited by dzidek; 2013-08-06 at 11:48 AM.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    Hey all. A friend and I raided in WotLK and early Cata, we were 13/13hc and had full clear on ulduar hard modes, but we stopped raiding once Cata was released to take a break from the game and we've PVPed since about a year before MOP was released. From what I can see, the entire system of raids / gearing up has changed, no longer can you find feasible epics in dungeons, valor seems mandatory to cap every week, etc. We've started running some LFRs and have been doing HC scenarios to grind out some valor to get trinkets first, then upgrades on gear that we've gotten, etc.. but what else can we do while we're still looking for a guild? At this point we're half PVE gear, half PVP gear, due to the fact that we haven't PVE'd at ALL this expansion, so it's near impossible to find a guild that would let us raid, and I don't really blame them. However, it feels endless to replace this PVP gear. So - is it really worth buying BOEs off the AH if they are an upgrade of 20 item levels? Do we really have to do dailies every single moment of the game to get lesser charms? It feels like such a hassle, to mindlessly quest in order to get a small chance at extra loot. does it really make that big of a difference?

    And yes, I do know about Mr. Robot's upgrade system, we've been using that a lot ^_^

    edit: should note we're looking into doing 25m raiding, we don't particularly enjoy 10m. if there's any servers that are mostly 25m, let me know, but from what i can tell it's pretty scattered
    Your best bet is to wait til 5.4 and then find a flexi guild, then go from there. Ignore people saying how easy it is to gear up, they are only right if you have a good guild behind you doing boost runs, are a lucky sod and so on. In 5.4 there will be 535 gear available for not much effort which will put you on a more even footing with others gearwise. 25 mans are rare, but with the flexi system likely to become more popular.

    If you try to get into a guild atm there is a medium to high likelihood that they will take you for a few weeks, and then bench you when people they already know and trust come back for the patch. Also, if you do go for a guild with your friend, it night be wise to apply seperately, many guilds don't like to take on groups of friends because it can cause drama down the line (also if you kick one for any reason you lose both which some Gm's are wary of.)

    Raiding is also more difficult than it was back in Ulduar. Expect normal modes to be about the same as ulduar hardmodes, and the current HC modes to be very unforgiving (if you do them at all.)

    Gear really isn't much of an issue though, tbh. For years now blizzard has rendered amost all the previous tiers gear obsolete with each new patch. Wait for the 5.4 reset and then go for it, i'd say.
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  14. #14
    Gearing alts/new chars has been made a joke. The steps you need after you ding 90:

    1. Buy crafted 458 PvP items.
    3. If you have 6k to spare buy 496 ilvl hands/chest. If you have 10k+ buy a relic trinket. (Optional step)
    2. Spam Heroic dungeons and Scenarios for 463 item level blues that you can upgrade with the spare justice points.
    4. Do Isle of thunder dailies until you get 4-5 elder charms of good fortune and Key to Lei Shen's palace. Buy a few jumping items and 1 levitation pot. Follow this guide to farm 15-20 elder tokens. More tokens = more loot.
    5. Kill all 4 World bosses and make sure you have Elder charms and Mogu charms if nothing drops.
    6. Run MSV lfr and dont waste token if you win loot from boss. You will get the same item twice. I learned that the hard way last week... (3 coins wasted).
    7. Run Hof and Toes LFR (once you have 470 ilvl). If you dont manage to get enough items run them again and use coins.
    8. Do the Shado-pan Assault quests for reputation. When you hit friendly buy the Trinket or Ring since you need 2 of those.
    10. Run ToT LFR and make sure have runes for the bosses you need.
    11. Look for Heroic scenario groups or MSV/HoF/ToES pugs.

    Once you get close to 505-510 item level you can start looking for ToT normal pugs and try to apply to a raiding guild. Don't expect wonders, however. People are not willing to risk with under geared and inexperienced people.

    You could do some Challenge modes as proof that you know your way around PvE, but that won't be enough.
    Last edited by Cybran; 2013-08-06 at 12:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Look around raidtime for people looking for pugs.
    A lot of guilds miss a couple of people now every raid near the end of this tier+ it's still summertime with people being on vacation.
    just head in for normals, and get the leftovers.

    We're using 3 pugs atm, might even use 4 next sunday. Never cared about the gear, though going into HC with a ilvl 478 healer proved to be a bit low. Never cared about ilvl. If they're good they get gear quickly enough, and they like us afterwards for having treated them well, so we can rely on help from them again. Or them trying to find others to help us out if they got into anouther raid.
    The suggestion about challenge mode is pretty good, but takes some time to find a good tank/healer.
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  16. #16
    Blizzard intended the catch-up system to be drawn out so that subscribers have to play for longer. There really isn't an easy way to catch-up as of this patch.

    The best you can do is mostly already mentioned above, but here are some extra tips I can give you:
    Capping valor points each week is a given, but how you spend it is also key. Do some simple calculations on how much ilvl you get per valor point spent on either shado pan assault gear or valor upgrade system, whichever net the best ratio would be the obvious choice. Another thing is to save up valor points. I usually cap to 3k points on new toons before spending them so the shado pan assault gear don't overlap with HC SC gear, world boss drops etc.

    You should take advantage of the bonus roll system. I'm still testing this but so far the result seem to confirm that mogu and elder charm share the same bonus roll protection. So you might just have a better luck at getting loots from oondasta/nalak if you queue LFR first and roll on everything until you have a long streak of gold, but don't quote me on this xd

    There's also guilds doing boosts. If you intend to spent 40k on 522 BoEs you might as well look for cheap boosts because that will likely net you better results + achivement.

  17. #17
    Let me list shortly what I started doing on my alt before I just couldn't be bothered anymore:

    - Grind out the key every week on Isle of Thunder and get a lot of extra bonus rolls in the older LFRs. Epics are epics. Run those LFRs several times with the bonus rolls.
    - Heroic scenarios give epics if you're lucky (I was very lucky, one every run).
    - The Barrens shit, it gives epics. Every week a guaranteed one if you grind the mats needed. You get one mojo every week.
    - Valor cap, obviously.
    - Join pugs, even if they're older raids - check OpenRaid if there's few pugs on your server.

    Once you're no longer in half PvP gear, guilds will be a lot more willing to look at you, even if your experience is "non-existant". Don't aim too high at first (though you can always try). Make private applications if you apply to multiple guilds (I know I will get heat for this, but guilds do not appreciate being applied to when you also applied to six others, even though they will suspect you did if you made private applications). Make your applications impressive, long and good answers, show you care, no spelling mistakes, be sincere, and don't be too modest.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Cirque; 2013-08-06 at 02:26 PM.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    1. Openraid and get the best gear you can from all sources possible.

    2. Write a really good application, take care in giving thorough answers. Show your personality a bit as well.

    3. Try and do a vent/mumble/skype interview with any guild you're looking at joining. Ask to see any youtube vids of their kills or if you can sit in during one of their raids to see how they raid as group. If any of them stream could be fun to watch as well.
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  19. #19
    Gear up quickly, using BoE (522 ilvl helm + boots, 496 chest + gloves). Buy valor trinket, start legendary quest asap. Farm lfr using bonus rolls , heroic scenarios, every single way previously mentioned in this thread

    Once you get 500 ilvl or so (shouldn't be more than a week or 2) find in a guild with a decent progress (like 4/13 ToT HC) recruiting your class and spec. Apply. A lot of guilds have a hard time recruiting and may be willing to gear you up if it's worth it (Especially if it's 25 man, gearing up someone takes one or two weeks)

  20. #20
    Get to 480 and start doing heroic scenarios with your buddy, start the legendary questline - will probably take like 2 or 3 months to complete, which isn't too bad, cap VP and obviously run LFR tier 14 stuff while completing the first parts of the legendary questline then do ToT in LFR. You can probably get into some pugs, even crappy ones that don't get very far may give you upgrades, especially if you can heal or tank. The heroic scenarios are the biggest part as the 516 gear is better than everything but stuff that drops from ToT. It may not be as good as tier, but chances are you'll get more pieces of 516 then you will tier, if you run heroic scenarios enough. If you got a lot of cash, considering buying a 522 crafted item, but most of them honestly aren't that good compared to their price, so only do that if you're *really* trying to gear up fast. In less than a month tops, IMO, I think you'll be ready for at least the easy hard modes in ToT.

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