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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Baine, Lorthemar, Vol'jin and Sylvanas have all had serious lore love in the last 2 expansions with their characters developed and storylines based around them.

    The alliance got 1 scenario where Moira shows up at the end to kill a troll.
    Before that, Horde leadership was a walking lore joke. Lor'themar Who?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    - Hagara is a fucking female worgen, how is that horde? Don't ask me, how a worgen can be a shaman, though...
    - Zul'jin was Amani.. They were NEVER part of, nor tied to Horde.. Go watch v4.2 trailer once more.
    - Deathbringer Saurfang is IMO more tied to Alliance (raised as a DK by LK, which is Aliance centered lore) than Horde tied. Just because he was an orc, doesn't make him tied to the Horde per say. Senior, yes, not so much Junior.

    Cho'gal and Teron, I agree on.. Gurthogg... I'm not quite sure on how to place him...
    http://wowpedia.org/Hagara_the_Stormbinder She is an Orc.
    Zul'jin was part of the horde in the second war.
    Death Knights were orgenally made by the horde, then made by the burning legion, who then taught the The lich King how to make them.
    Also Saurfang younger was being trained to be the horde war chief....
    Cho'gal, and Teron were major forces in the the horde in the the second war.

    Now you could argue all you want about how the troll raid bosses are not part of the horde, then you have to throw out all the dragons, elemental lords, and Illidan from the allies. llidan never was part of the alllies, and was thrown out by the night elves 10,000 years ago.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Before that, Horde leadership was a walking lore joke. Lor'themar Who?
    Before that and since that Alliance leadership has been a joke.

    Genn, Velen, Mekatorque, Falstad (Metzen didn't even know he was fucking alive), Tyrande, Crowley are all missing in action and most haven't even been mentioned since they were put into the game.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmar View Post
    You want to know why it didn't happen? Mass complaining by Alliance players that "it's not what we want!" The scenario happened since the questline was pretty much already finished, but due to overwhelming negative reactions the devs didn't included it as originally intended. This is the problem with Alliance lore. The players have put the writers into a position where they know nothing they do will please them, even complete annihilation of the Horde. Horde bias in MoP is purely the fault of the players on the Alliance side, and with the kind of revisionist history victim complex bullcrap we see now in every thread (Vanilla and Wrath were Horde biased? wat?) this false viewpoint is getting worse and worse, and the writing will only suffer further because of it.

    You want to save Alliance lore? The Alliance players need to get their boot off the throat of their own faction's storyline.
    Blizzard takes votes on what the Alliance story will be from the players and adjusts accordingly? thats news to everyone who plays the game.

    When you need to resort to name calling and derogatory comments to alliance, you lost your debate. I'm horde btw.

    It took alliance 5 years to fix the bridge in redridge.............are the gnomes EVER going to retake Gnomeregon? probably not in our lifetimes.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Genn, Velen, Mekatorque, Falstad (Metzen didn't even know he was fucking alive), Tyrande, Crowley are all missing in action and most haven't even been mentioned since they were put into the game.
    Genn only came to the game in Cataclysm. Mekatorque had his own patch story with the conquering of upper Gnomeregan before Cataclysm and now is on the Siege of Orgrimmar. Tyrande is one of the most developed character in novels and appears in-game time to time (patch 5.1 for example).

    Sure, Blizzard needs to focus more on the racial leaders story and leave the faction nonsense behind once and for all, but take note, before Cataclysm, Horde were all about the orcs with some Forsaken and Blood Elf story (minus their own Regent) in the middle, nothing more.

  6. #166
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    Alliance can't carry it's own storyline at this time because Alliance either doesn't have dedicated writers, or if it does, they don't care and are wishing they could work on Horde lore/story. Think this is hyperbolic? Read the Alliance story so far.

    It's utter trash.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Genn only came to the game in Cataclysm. Mekatorque had his own patch story with the conquering of upper Gnomeregan before Cataclysm and now is on the Siege of Orgrimmar. Tyrande is one of the most developed character in novels and appears in-game time to time (patch 5.1 for example).

    Sure, Blizzard needs to focus more on the racial leaders story and leave the faction nonsense behind once and for all, but take note, before Cataclysm, Horde were all about the orcs with some Forsaken and Blood Elf story in the middle, nothing more.
    Genn is also a massive character with an interesting personality (can be selfish and racist) who for some reason has sat there doing nothing for 2 expansions.

    Mekatorque I could not tell you a single thing about his character other than he's a gnome and a tinket.

    "developed in the novels", why is this seen as acceptable? A character has no presence in game but if I go and read some book I can find out more. Tyrande appeared in 5.1 for 1 poxy scenario (where she just stands there with a couple lines) and acted out of character just to make Varian look intelligent.

    You can talk about pre Cataclysm all you want, but the fact is that pre Cataclysm was 3 years ago (not sure exact date) and crimes in the past should NOT mean it's acceptable for them to occur now. Not to mention again Tyrande, Velen, Bronzebeard, Mekatorque did NOTHING then either, and Varian was only around since WOTLK where it doesn't even show in game where he popped up from.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by ariakul View Post
    It took alliance 5 years to fix the bridge in redridge.............are the gnomes EVER going to retake Gnomeregon? probably not in our lifetimes.
    Gameplay issue. Gnomeregan is a dungeon.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Tyrande appeared in 5.1 for 1 poxy scenario (where she just stands there with a couple lines) and acted out of character just to make Varian look intelligent.
    It wasnt out of character, she was always a dumb religious bitch.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Genn is also a massive character with an interesting personality (can be selfish and racist) who for some reason has sat there doing nothing for 2 expansions.

    Mekatorque I could not tell you a single thing about his character other than he's a gnome and a tinket.

    "developed in the novels", why is this seen as acceptable? A character has no presence in game but if I go and read some book I can find out more. Tyrande appeared in 5.1 for 1 poxy scenario (where she just stands there with a couple lines) and acted out of character just to make Varian look intelligent.

    You can talk about pre Cataclysm all you want, but the fact is that pre Cataclysm was 3 years ago (not sure exact date) and crimes in the past should NOT mean it's acceptable for them to occur now. Not to mention again Tyrande, Velen, Bronzebeard, Mekatorque did NOTHING then either, and Varian was only around since WOTLK where it doesn't even show in game where he popped up from.
    The "crimes" in the past should be a hint that is not an "Alliance" or "Horde" question, but a question how to introduce those chars in the current story.

    Look at Gallywix? He isn't even ingame yet. Sylvanas? She became a non-character in MoP. That's why, for the best or the worst, novels and other media exist to flesh out the story.

    Oh, Varian has been ingame since Vanilla, only to be gone in patch 1.10.

  11. #171
    Gameplay issue. Gnomeregan is a dungeon.
    Thanks to Blizzard, who failed to design a troll captial, so they had so cancel the gnome captial, and rewrote the story, to tell us, why it is lost. I just want to mention, that this is a relic of Blizzard being unable to create a proper Horde environment during classic time.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Thanks to Blizzard, who failed to design a troll captial, so they had so cancel the gnome captial, and rewrote the story, to tell us, why it is lost. I just want to mention, that this is a relic of Blizzard being unable to create a proper Horde environment during classic time.
    Precisely. Like I said, it's not an "Alliance" nor "Horde" problem, it's a racial problem.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    The "crimes" in the past should be a hint that is not an "Alliance" or "Horde" question, but a question how to introduce those chars in the current story.

    Look at Gallywix? He isn't even ingame yet. Sylvanas? She became a non-character in MoP. That's why, for the best or the worst, novels and other media exist to flesh out the story.

    Oh, Varian has been ingame since Vanilla, only to be gone in patch 1.10.
    In terms of Alliance it wouldn't be too hard

    Genn - Selfish leader, trying to undermine Varian and causing unrest in the Alliance. His Worgen are ferocious and should be focusing on retaking Gilneas fully.
    Tyrande - Wise night elf leader, great in Guerilla warfare
    Velen - One of the most powerful leaders on Azeroth, incredibly old and wise with visions of the future. Should be offering tactical advice and be telling Varian to show strong morals and fight for unity between Alliance and Horde. Maybe he could go at logger heads with Genn as they see opposite sides of the coin.

    Sylvanas may have been pretty irrelevant in MoP but she had MASSIVE lore in Cataclysm, more than any alliance leader not-Varian (and even then arguably more) has since the beginning of WoW.

    I'm sick of the Alliance getting fobbed off with novels, sure flesh the story out in the novels, but the thing is lots of Alliance leaders literally HAVEN'T got any story in game past the original starting zone, or ever.

    Anyway I don't want to turn it into a "who got fucked over more" debate, because they're boring and have been done to death.

    Blizzard have failed for both sides since the beginning of WoW to make a cohesive storyline, and I feel since Cataclysm this has been more evident on the Alliance side.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    In terms of Alliance it wouldn't be too hard

    Genn - Selfish leader, trying to undermine Varian and causing unrest in the Alliance. His Worgen are ferocious and should be focusing on retaking Gilneas fully.
    Tyrande - Wise night elf leader, great in Guerilla warfare
    Velen - One of the most powerful leaders on Azeroth, incredibly old and wise with visions of the future. Should be offering tactical advice and be telling Varian to show strong morals and fight for unity between Alliance and Horde. Maybe he could go at logger heads with Genn as they see opposite sides of the coin.

    Sylvanas may have been pretty irrelevant in MoP but she had MASSIVE lore in Cataclysm, more than any alliance leader not-Varian (and even then arguably more) has since the beginning of WoW.

    I'm sick of the Alliance getting fobbed off with novels, sure flesh the story out in the novels, but the thing is lots of Alliance leaders literally HAVEN'T got any story in game past the original starting zone, or ever.

    Anyway I don't want to turn it into a "who got fucked over more" debate, because they're boring and have been done to death.

    Blizzard have failed for both sides since the beginning of WoW to make a cohesive storyline, and I feel since Cataclysm this has been more evident on the Alliance side.
    Or players really need to stop looking to the story as a factions story. That's the main problem. Blizzard built an entire new continent, with a lot of new lore and implications on all Azeroth and yet we are talking about which faction as the biggest "epeen", especially when the current story goes exactly against that same pride.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Thanks to Blizzard, who failed to design a troll captial, so they had so cancel the gnome captial, and rewrote the story, to tell us, why it is lost. I just want to mention, that this is a relic of Blizzard being unable to create a proper Horde environment during classic time.
    But then the Trolls took back the Echo Isles. So...??? I think you're mistaking things for Alliance bias, here. The Trolls didn't have a capital, the same as the gnomes, because in Classic, Blizzard wanted each faction to have a refugee race for whom things are not doing well. Even with that in mind, both factions get to go into Gnomeregan and go on a killing spree of Alliance citizenry (Horde even got a teleporter to the arrangement,) because Gnomes got a goddamn nuke dropped into their city.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    go on a killing spree of Alliance citizenry (Horde even got a teleporter to the arrangement,) because Gnomes got a goddamn nuke dropped into their city.
    Troggs and Leper gnomes are Alliance citizenry? We learn new things everyday.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Gameplay issue. Gnomeregan is a dungeon.
    Gnomeregan was actually the capital city for the Gnomes. Fixing the bridge is not a gameplay issue either.

    Thanks for playing.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Troggs and Leper gnomes are Alliance citizenry? We learn new things everyday.
    Troggs aren't, but those Leper Gnomes are.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by ariakul View Post
    Gnomeregan was actually the capital city for the Gnomes.
    Gnomeregan is an instance, making it a gameplay issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by ariakul View Post
    Fixing the bridge is not a gameplay issue either.
    Unless the NPCs can magically do the game designers work, don't see how the bridge can rebuilt by itself.

    But you are right, the bridge is not a gameplay issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    Troggs aren't, but those Leper Gnomes are.
    The Leper Gnomes, under their leader Thermaplugg, were working on world-conquest machines.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Before that, Horde leadership was a walking lore joke. Lor'themar Who?
    While Velen was at least known, at least the Blood Elves in general had some form of resolution following the Sunwell events. Draenei went back to Draenor and... nothing changed. The Draenei were reconnected to the Naaru forces in Shattrath and... nothing changed. Shit, the only thing the Draenei had from TBC came in the form of Velen reigniting the Sunwell with Mu'ru's (or Entropius' if you prefer) essence so that the Blood Elves had a source of holy magic following the loss of Mu'ru as their holy power source and that didn't even give the Draenei anything >.>
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

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