Can the Alliance carry its own storyline?

[Xucuroz]

Alliance has tons of rich lore. Its not a question of it not being there or not being strong enough to stand on its own. Its all down to Blizzard to actually use it and craft it. There are tons of great lore characters, Alliance specific they can draw upon and use. Such examples as Turalyon, Alleria, Khadgar and Danath - could all be brought back and used to great affect. I'd also say

The biggest problem is Blizzard try to make content for both factions. Siege of Orgrimmar was probably initially very Alliance centric, until Blizzard adapted it in order for it to make sense for Horde players to lay siege to it. Then it naturally went from being an Alliance story, to a Horde one. Especially so since 5.3 was all about the Horde rebels. Had they actually bothered to craft Alliance specific quests to undermine Garrosh's forces without aiding the rebels, it probably would have worked out better storywise.

Its also very likely that if content such as Kul' Tiras is ever introduced to the game, Blizzard will attempt to butcher it so it makes sense for Horde to be there, similar in a lot of ways to Dalaran.

[Deleted]

if Kul' Tiras is ever introduced to the game, Blizzard will attempt to butcher it

I believe [though I am not too sure about that as of now] that somewhere there was a bluepost [or maybe an article section?] about how the event of Cataclysm has effectively destroyed Kul'Tiras once and for all.

[Omgarsh]

Night elfs and Draenei had lots of potential, but they killed it all of with Illidan and the rest of Burning Crusade. Maiev has been just as emo as Sylvanas has been in WoW, so she is a dead character to me.

The rest of the races either have terrible leaders or the entire race is meaningless.

Dwarves and Gnomes are pretty awesome. Maybe they could join the new Horde after we take out Garrosh, and we could finally make the rest of the Alliance into an NPC faction.

[Sierra85]

Dwarves and Gnomes are pretty awesome.

taurens and gnomes on the same side just doesn't seem right though does it?

[Omgarsh]

Garrosh is probably one of the most developed characters since TBC, he has had spotlight after spotlight starting in TBC.

He's had more screen time than any Alliance leader.

Vanilla was in Alliance's favour i'll agree, but the new 1-60 is far more interesting as a Horde player, and Cata and MoP, IMO, has had more interesting storylines and much more focus than the Alliance.

"we got screwed over once so you should" is not an approach Blizzard should be taking, it feels like it's constantly Horde and Alliance arguing over who should get a good storyline when it's Blizzard who should be writing both a good storyline.

This is actually a really good point and I agree. I tried to go Alliance in Cataclysm and just couldn't get into it really. I like enough of their races, and I even like some of their lore... but it's impossible to really like the Humans because of how they've been developed, and the races I do like (Dwarf, Gnome, Draenei) practically do not exist in lore outside of Brann Bronzebeard being the most overused character ever.

[Harmzuay]

I believe [though I am not too sure about that as of now] that somewhere there was a bluepost [or maybe an article section?] about how the event of Cataclysm has effectively destroyed Kul'Tiras once and for all.

I think you might be mistaken on this, but I'm gonna start looking for it. All I've heard about it is that it's still out there and they said a couple times we may end up seeing in Cata, but that obviously never happened.

[Omgarsh]

taurens and gnomes on the same side just doesn't seem right though does it?

They could have a combo racial: Cannonball Special, just like in the old X-Men comics!

[Deleted]

Blizz needs a better method of lore delivery. Lots of people who play the game love the lore, I'd risk a guess that the vast majority of players are at least passingly interested (yes, even you lolsaplol). The books were an attempt at that; to deliver a huge payload of lore. The problem is that it doesn't reach most players, and it happens outside of the games.

What Blizzard really ought to do is have an in game equivalent of weekly webisode releases; by that I mean equivalent in terms of effort, frequency, and density. An example? Once per week each faction gets a new lore episode- it works like a daily quest, you pick it up off some lore character, help them to do something, and it culminates in a short in-game cutscene with ~ 1 minute of voice acting. Speak to Chromie of the Bronze dragonflight to catch up on past episodes.

This wouldn't be a huge outlay of work, though admittedly isn't insubstantial; but I think it would add immense value to the game for people who love the lore, as well as increasing the value and relevance of the overall narrative for most players. It would be a reason to log in once a week, a reason to stay subbed 'just one more month' (omg, will Moira make good on her threats to Muradin?!).

The current method of massive updates in xpacs and patches necessarily tied to game design and balance doesn't cut it.

[Fenixdown]

alliance has an untapped reservoir of storylines to tap into. Worgen characters, Draeni, the list goes on.

After so much horde focus i am sure we will see some interesting Alliance development in the next few expansions.

HA! Not from Blizzhorde you won't. I gave up on that pipedream by Cataclysm. It's so bad now that I never even finished the Northern Barrens chain to get my "Hordebreaker" title. I was just going to do it all for the pet, anyway, but I bought it off the AH for pretty cheap so I said screw this. I didn't even do the first collection part.

Only story that's interested me in any fashion is the Wrathion story and the Pandaria story. This whole Garrosh thing interests me about as much as sticking my penis into an electrical socket does. Wake me when I get a storyline that I can say I'm actually involved in, and not just playing the part of a janitor in.

[Deleted]

The question is does Blizz not think the Alliance can have an interesting enough storyline that doesn't involve the Horde somehow? and if so are they right?

They did so in Warcraft 3, right? The Alliance had to deal with the Scourge instead of the Horde.

Regarding WoW though, the Alliance had their own storylines in vanilla, TBC and WotLK but lately they seem to be connected to everything the Horde does. And that is understandable as they are at war currently. There is still a storyline they could play out with Moira and the different Dwarven clans, and the Night Elves could be up to something stupid again. There is plenty of room for opportunity in the next expansion. And the Alliance should be more focused on its own since the Horde is busy recovering anyway. I say wait it out before you pass judgement.

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I do always love the Horde players coming in to these threads and telling Alliance players to shut up whining about it. It's easy to do so when you effectively get the lion's share of lore over the last few years. You are telling people to stop whining because A) you are happy with the lore and B) you want more of the same.

Oh yeah, I loved the Horde having almost zero development in vanilla and WotLK and that the Alliance is sieging my city and defeating my leader. Yeah, totally Horde bias!

Anyway, Alliance actually seems to get the most development, vanilla, WotLK and MoP all favour them. It's just that their storylines aren't as interesting as Horde side and that's probably because Alliance is too much the caricature, flawless good guys. Most Horde races have their flaws, and that makes it easy to write interesting storylines for them.

Actually, from an Alliance perspective Varian coming back as a hotheaded warrior who starts a new war with the Horde is the best development you ever got. It's just that now he's reverted back into his goody two shoes role.

[Deleted]

Anyway, Alliance actually seems to get the most development, vanilla, WotLK and MoP all favour them. It's just that their storylines aren't as interesting as Horde side and that's probably because Alliance is too much the caricature, flawless good guys. Most Horde races have their flaws, and that makes it easy to write interesting storylines for them.

Actually, from an Alliance perspective Varian coming back as a hotheaded warrior who starts a new war with the Horde is the best development you ever got. It's just that now he's reverted back into his goody two shoes role.

Wat? Have you ever even played both sides? The story line around Sylvanas and the forsaken during Wotlk, the Taunka and Garrosh's involvement were far more prominent and better done and some of them had actual relevance for future story developements. The Alliance story line wasn't all that great, the main villain was just as much ours as he was the Alliance's.

And Vanilla did not really have a story worth mentioning, it was overall fairly rushed and not very well done. Real story only started with the BC, which was a complete belf wankfest shafting the Draenei completely and going so far as to giving mayor chunks of their lore (which was an asspull to begin with) to neutral factions or us. Hell Blizzard even apologized for this.

I don't think we actually have to talk about Cataclysm and as for Pandaria. I've been enjoying the Horde side vastly more. Up to Thunder Island it might have been about even, but again the only Alliance race actually featured are human which the other one's being mostly absent. While Belfs and Trolls both get mayor lore developements.

[Matt0193]

I say wait it out before you pass judgement.

That was what we were told through Cataclysm, though. Waiting did nothing, we were promised a "fist-pumping" moment which we have since been told was the Purge of Dalaran, a scene where we are essentially killing civilians. We were told we would get the "High King Trials" to witness Varian growing as a leader and proving himself in the eyes of the other Alliance leaders that he was capable of leading the combined forces of the Alliance in a "Supreme Commander" role; scrapped because the first supposed step of this was depicting Tyrande as a complete and utter moron and Varian correcting her and the community complained, quite tightly, that it was just plain shit.

Waiting really won't solve anything, and while you're right in saying that the lore for both factions next expansions should almost entirely be their own as the Horde will be recovering from the effects of the Siege of Orgrimmar and the Alliance will be bolstering their own position while the Horde recover, but if the previous two expansions are anything to go by we'll probably still see Stormwind smoldering from Deathwing's attack while the Horde rebuild Orgrimmar bigger and grander while also being shown that they're also doing something meaningful in the world at the same time.

[Buu]

Non-constructive nerd rage really doesn't contribute to the discussion at all.

HAHAHAHHAHA How ridiculous. You people waste your creativity in stand stuck in the same place EVERY TIME. How expressing that you blaming Blizzard for your own internal problems, hence pointing fingers to the innocent, trying to shift YOUR blame is nerdrage?

So much waste....

[Madruga]

Most times, Alliance lore is only interesting when it is based on the Horde. It was like this in Warcraft 1, Warcraft 2 and for most parts of WoW. Only in Warcraft 3 their lore was REALLY independent, too bad it was to give birth to the Lich King and in the end the Alliance was simply destroyed.

There are potential for some independent stories, like the Defias, the state of Westfall with all the poor and famine, the struggle of the night elves with the loss of their immortality, the internal conflicts between the Dark iron, Bronzebeard and the Wildhammer. But honestly, it is not enough... Even if the Horde is not directly envolved, you have Blackrock Orcs appearing in large chunks of the Alliance lore, like in Redridge.

For Alliance to be intersting, I think there should be another powerfull antagonist... It was what happened in Warcraft 3, where the main antagonist changed to the Scourge, then to the Burning Legion, then to Arthas. Meaning, Alliance needs an antagonist to work properly. And most times, this antagonist is the Horde...

[Buu]

This faction bullshit is so tiring.
Even as an Alliance player, I will take literally any lore I can in the game from any perspective about character.

Garrosh, just like the LK was, is a world problem. The difference with Garrosh is simply that he has now been in 4 expansions and been built up for WoW players, even becoming the most important Horde leader, the Warchief. Whereas Arthas/the Lich King was mostly in WC3 and then only seen in 1 expansion as nothing but a villain (please don't tell me the CoT was "Alliance lore heavy") so most players had no idea who the fuck he was without going on to Google and searching for info.

In the end, all lore is Warcraft lore. The problem is what Blizzard has been writing.

I do always love the Horde players coming in to these threads and telling Alliance players to shut up whining about it. It's easy to do so when you effectively get the lion's share of lore over the last few years. You are telling people to stop whining because A) you are happy with the lore and B) you want more of the same.

NO, I'll make a border thing and put it in all caps, so you can't pretend anymore it wasn't said (how ridiculous of me, youactually ALWAY PRETEND TO NEVER READ THAT):

I PLAYED CHARACTERS IN BOTH FACTIONS THROUGH MoP, THE PROBLEM ISN'T BLIZZARD'S, IT'S YOURS. BECAUSE YOU'RE CONCENTRATING TOO MUCH IN CONTAINING HORDE DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU'RE MISSING YOUR OWN FACTION DEVELOPMENT. ALLIANCE DEVELOPED A LOT, THE RACES OF ALLIANCE HAD THEIR SPOTLIGHT AS MUCH AS THE RACES OF THE HORDE HAD THEIR SPOTLIGHTS INSIDE THEIR FACTION.
YOU'RE WORRYING TOO MUCH IN BEING BACK TO VANILLA RATE OF 65% CONTENT FOR ALLIANCE AND 35% FOR HORDE, AND MISSING YOUR PRESENT 51%, WHILE BITCHING ABOUT 14% EXTRA STUFF HORDE RECEIVES TODAY. THE BALANCE CAME TO STAY, DEAL WITH IT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT CHANGING.

Seriously, there is so much to discuss, it's annoying that for the last 2 years EVERY headline list contain at least ONE Alliance whining threat. Don't you people NEVER get tired of being Emo? Because you already tired Horde and the non-emo share of your own faction.

[Scummer]

There is plenty of room for opportunity in the next expansion.

I'm getting deja vu from Cataclysm.
Seriously though, there is a lot of stuff that can be done. It's whether or not Blizzard actually decide to act upon them.

There was a post of the official forums that layed out the Alliance players feel atm, although his argument I find deteriorated when he start discussing "fist pump" moments he did have a point. He discussed how currently the precedent of Alliance lore is negative, thus people will go into new lore such as the destroyed SW harbour negatively simply because that's the precedent Blizzard have set for the story atm.

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THE RACES OF ALLIANCE HAD THEIR SPOTLIGHT AS MUCH AS THE RACES OF THE HORDE HAD THEIR SPOTLIGHTS INSIDE THEIR FACTION.

Hang on one sec. This is wrong and you know it. Currently the Alliance story is dominated by Humans.
The Worgen and Genn. Not seen or even heard of. The Draenei and Velen, no development and the only instance of Velen being mentioned is not followed up.

Whereas every race so far on the Horde side has had will have development in 5.4.

The lack of diversity amongst the Alliance racial storyline and identity is something I don't I've seen anybody dispute simply because it's obvious within the game.

[dirk123]

Love it how Horde players always seperate the "Old Horde" (Warcraft 1+2) and the "new Horde".
Yet "Alliance of Lorderaen" and "The Alliance" get grouped together when talking about faction heroes gone bad.

Arthas - Alliance of Lorderaen. Not the alliance we know
Kel'thuzad - Alliance of Lorderaen, left Kirin Tor and became the Lich Kings (Ner'zhul - OLD Horde) servant.
Illidan - non, since Night Elves weren't part of the Alliance then. And they also weren't part of the Alliance when Malfurion BANISHED Illidan from Kalimdor
Kael'thas - Was about to be executed by the Garithos and the remains of the Alliance of Lorderaen. Kirin Tor not lifting a finger. He only helped the alliance cause of old debts between High Elves & Stromgarde.

Also, how is Wrath an Alliance expansion?
Sure Arthas who belonged to a different Alliance than the current one was the LK (after mindstabbing Ner'zhul in his mind in the novel), but most of the scourge was created when Ner'zhul was LK. Not to mention that the major factions going after the LK were 2 NEUTRAL organizations. The Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade. Alliance & Horde only going there cause the LK assaulted the Alliance and Horde capital city.
Questing wise there was nothing about alliance dominance. Think the only anti-horde quests in the game were Battle for the Undercity and the quest in Howling Fjord where we destroy some Forsaken plague machines.
Wrath was both factions with the help of 2 neutral organizations dealing with the LK.

Cata was Horde takes over many contested zones (to balance leveling zones out), Thrall marriage, Old Gods/Deathwing and ending the xpack with Theramore.
Alliance had hardly any development. Worgen get shunned away to Darnassus to 1 tree, 1 3-house base in Blasted Lands with 2-3 npcs and 1-2 quests. Goblins get formerly "contested" Aszhara with Bilgewater Harbor as a city (not capital) to play around in when leveling.
Maybe if we a named alliance NPC confronted Benedictus instead of Thrall and Worgen getting some development after their starting zone like the goblins, it would be somewhat more fair.

MoP. 5.0 was somewhat neutral. 5.1 is almost 50/50 alliance/horde wise (although Dagger in the Dark was imo the superior faction scenario)
5.2 is 50/50 again with the "debatable" alliance fist pumping that is known as The Purge of Dalaran.
5.3 was better developed for the Horde, Alliance got shafted.
5.4 seems thus far to be hordecentric, with MAYBE alliance development of the SoO aftermath in 5.5

[Deleted]

Alliance lore is good, it's just not interesting; it's not interesting because there's no tension; there's no tension because there's no conflict (or at least, not enough).

It's a super simple formula. Give us two alliance characters who have conflicting goals. This creates tension, we get invested in possible outcomes, and dread others. Then you build this tension until there is a climax (the peak of tension; opposed plot momentum from multiple conflicting character goals). Then you resolve the situation with an ultimate outcome, audience feels relief, characters react and come to terms with the resolution, hopefully growing a little bit.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Example:

Anduin Wrynn would like very much for there to be peace between the Horde and the Alliance; Genn Greymane would like very much to retake Gilneas and Silverpine for his people. Varian, the external authority, forbids either course of action on the premise that the Alliance Military is needed in Pandaria. Each takes increasingly greater (and secret) steps to achieve their opposing goals, increasing tension; Anduin Wrynn reaches out to the Horde for peace talks, Genn Greymane funds holdouts and builds a secret invasion force of Worgen saboteurs; the two have a confrontation with no resolution, with the Prince dismissing the Worgen as commited only to mutual destruction, and the Worgen accusing the Prince of naivety and a lack of concern for Worgen needs. The Climax occurs when Anduin has succeeded in gaining an audience with Sylvanas, under the protection of Baine Bloodhoof, proposing a detente and Silverpine DMZ. Meanwhile Genn Greymane has assembled his surprise attack force, and launched the strike upon the Silverpine High Command... the very place Anduin is holding his secret peace talks!

What happens next? Does Greymane's attack succeed? Or does it fail and result in both his and Prince Anduin's capture? Surely the peace talks will fail, now? Or will they? What if Greymane is captured but Anduin is not? What if turning over Greymane is Sylvanas' price for peace in Silverpine and Gilneas? What if the attack is a glorious success, but the future King disavows Greymane for shattering a very real chance at peace?

All of these outcomes would be engaging.

Conflict -> Tension -> Climax -> Resolution -> Repeat.

[JudgePayne]

Back on topic here,

I believe the alliance has great potential for singular story lines without the horde.
Examples of such are.

1) Jaina disagree's with Varians style of leadership and tactics begins to take a more hostile approach towards the horde. She openly talks of taking the fight to the horde and dismisses the idea of truces and peace talks. While she does not fight against Varian she leads a counter offensive against the Dark lady using Dalaran as her staging point.

2) Dwarve lore, We know that Varian implemented the council of three anvils until Moria was able to rule justly and have the wisdom to do the best for all the dwarves under her power. Imagine the dark Iron that did not come with Moria to the alliance make an attempt on her life but fail and during the chaos manage to kidnap her son in the hopes of returning the Heir of the dark Iron back to his true people. This could be a great dwarf moment for the council of come together and finally "hammer out" (sorry had to be said) the last of the renegade dark irons.

3) Draenei - So much could be done here regarding the legion. Since they had so little lore upto now they still have the potential for a fantastic storyline to evolve.

4) Worgen - Possibly join Jaina and help take the fight to the forsaken, or better yet they could tie in with the night elves and open a huge storyline with the emerald dream. We know malfurion banished the original worgen to the emerald dream, imagine if they were needed to combat their feral breathern within the dream.

5) Night elf - EMERALD DREAM nuff said

6) Gnome - Seeing the potential of the thunderking and the ability to create an army of constructs the gnomes begin to reinforce their armies within gnomeregan with the purpose of creating a grand army for the alliance.

7) Humans - Kul Tiras, with the events of Seige over Varian decides that he does not want the alliance to splinter apart like the horde. With this in mind he opens up talks with kul tiras to reinforce them and in turn open them up to the alliance players

[Sesto]

To people saying Arthas wasn't a part of the Alliance: it doesn't matter.

Arthas still affected the human population greatly. Many who fought on the Alliance's side were fighting not simply to rid the world of another evil, but to kill the man who betrayed Lordaeron. It doesn't even matter that it was an entirely different kingdom. They were still humans, and the humans in the Alliance wanted to avenge the fallen. To say that Wrath wasn't an Alliance eccentric expansion is incredibly stupid.

Yeah, Blood Elves and Forsaken also had their own avenging to do, but other than Wrathgate and the short quel'delar chain, they got nothing.

Also, remember who became the new Lich King? Oh yeah, the guy who had been the Reagent of Stormwind for years.