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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Effinhunter View Post
    ~snip~
    Puddle Punishers will still be the winner, due to it being Crit heavy, rather than Minelayer's being Exp heavy and other stat is Mastery, which is the worst stat for all 3 specs.

    Good that you noticed this though, as I only quickly checked what stats they had as base.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Puddle Punishers will still be the winner, due to it being Crit heavy, rather than Minelayer's being Exp heavy and other stat is Mastery, which is the worst stat for all 3 specs.

    Good that you noticed this though, as I only quickly checked what stats they had as base.
    Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing on the choice of boots. I was just confused by the difference in stat allocation.

  3. #23
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    I'm actually leaning toward Death Lotus Crossbow as BiS, especially since crit diminishes in value as you get more, and it provides a decent chunk of needed Hit. Plus it has the advantage of being from an earlier boss, which makes it more likely to be seen in Warforged or H Warforged sooner.
    Personal preference and what not on the secondary point, though.

    @Tehstool below: I'm sure the Ebon Ticking Deonator will sim higher, there's no doubt in my mind of that. I'm concerned with the current decrement rate of .5 secs, meaning if you're currently on GCD you'll miss your shot at a max-buffed Explosive/KC/Chim. For Sim purposes, Yeah, Detonator all day. For actual play, I'm looking at Haromm's Talisman, at least for Surv and MM. Not sure how, or if it even interacts with Kill Command at all, so that one's up in the air.
    Last edited by Arcanimus; 2013-08-07 at 10:28 PM.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    From a quick look over tier and the possible off piece, it comes down to Garrosh shoulders vs. Tier Shoulders. Helm, Chest and Gloves are Haste/Crit and Legs are haste/mastery with 2x Yellow while non-tier is crit/mastery with 2x Blue.

    However, all this depends on what our stat weights will be when 5.4 hits. RPPM nerf is in effect in PTR currently, that will affect the value of Haste greatly. I believe we will be back to Crit > Haste > Mastery for SV while BM could still be Haste > Crit > Mastery.

    Also BiS weapon will be from Paragons of Klaxxi, Haste/Crit with red socket, can't get better than that!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quick BiS at first glance(No trinkets, need to wait for numbers):

    Head: Headguard of the Unblinking Vigil
    Neck: Gleaming Eye of the Devilsaur
    Shoulder: Shoulderguards of Intended Power
    Cloak: Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen
    Chest: Tunic of the Unblinking Vigil
    Bracer: Dagryn's Fuselight Bracers / Wristguards of Ruination
    Gloves: Gloves of the Unblinking Vigil
    Belt: Arrowflight Girdle
    Pants: Legguards of the Unblinking Vigil
    Boots: Puddle Punishers
    Ring 1: Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy
    Ring 2: Ring of Restless Energy
    Weapon: Hisek's Reserve Longbow

    With this, you have 2 items that have hit or exp, bracers is a tough one, the choice depends on what our stat priority will be.

    Trinket candidates:
    Trinket 1: Assurance of Consequence
    Trinket 2: Haromm's Talisman
    Trinket 3: Sigil of Rampage
    Trinket 4: Ticking Ebon Detonator

    From what I can read, #4 is very hard to react to, it procs and if you have no focus = best moments gone. #3 seems like viable only on AoE fights.

    So it looks like #1 and #2 are the choices, Both have a nice Agility proc and a niche to them, #2 doesn't seem to have a ICD for the proc, so this could be very overpowered for SV AoE? Unless they took care of that part too(Only procs against current target).
    I'd say that the assurance of consequence and the ticking ebon detonator are the best. Also your BiS list is slightly off. You can get more agi with the pants as the offset item.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Definitely go with the pants as the offset. It's way better. If you go with the shoulders as the offset item you will get 4433 agi, 1446 haste, 1273 crit, 2413 mastery and 640 of X stat. With the pants as the offset, you will get 4627 agi, 1694 crit, 1453 mastery, 1246 haste, 804 expertise and 320 of X stat If you go with the pants offset+tier shoulders you will get

    +194 agi
    +421 crit
    +804 expertise
    -200 haste
    -960 mastery
    -320 of X stat

    That comes out to
    +194 agi
    -255 stats (majority lost is mastery;our worst stat)

    194 agi is way better than 255 stats.

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  5. #25
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Posting this cause I wanted it made. Figure I might as well share.

    Slot Sorted List
    Helm
    Haromm's Horrifying Helm - Kor'kron Dark Shaman
    Penetrating Gaze of Y'Shaarj - Garrosh Hellscream
    Headguard of the Unblinking Vigil - Thok the Bloodthirsty [Tier]

    Neck
    Immerseus' Crystalline Eye - Immerseus
    Gleaming Eye of the Devilsaur - Thok the Bloodthirsty

    Shoulders
    Quarantine Shoulderguards - Norushen
    Spaulders of the Unblinking Vigil - Siegecrafter Blackfuse
    Shoulderguards of Intended Power - Garrosh Hellscream

    Cloak
    Poisonmist Nightcloak - Kor'kron Dark Shaman

    Chest
    Tunic of the Unblinking Vigil - Sha of Pride [Tier]
    Ancient Archer's Chestguard - Spoils of Pandaria
    Chestguard of Relentless Tyranny - Garrosh Hellscream

    Bracer
    Dagryn's Fuselight Bracers - Galakras
    Wristguards of Ruination - Malkorok
    Bracers of Infinite Pipes - Siegecrafter Blackfuse

    Gloves
    Grips of Unending Anguish - Fallen Protectors
    Precision Cutters - Iron Juggernaut
    Gloves of the Unblinking Vigil - General Nazgrim [Tier]

    Belt
    Cannoneer's Multipocket Gunbelt - Galakras
    Arrowflight Girdle - Spoils of Pandaria

    Legs
    Leggings of Unabashed Anger - Norushen
    Legguards of the Unblinking Vigil - Paragons of the Klaxxi [Tier]

    Boots
    Puddle Punishers - Immerseus
    Minelayer's Padded Boots - Iron Juggernaut
    Ravager's Pathwalkers - General Nazgrim

    Ring
    Reality Ripper Ring - Norushen
    Swift Serpent Signet - Galakras
    Ring of Restless Energy - Malkorok
    Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy - Paragons of the Klaxxi

    Trinket
    Assurance of Consequence - Sha of Pride
    Haromm's Talisman Kor'kron Dark Shaman
    Sigil of Rampage - Spoils of Pandaria
    Ticking Ebon Detonator - Siegecrafter Blackfuse

    Ranged
    Death Lotus Crossbow - Fallen Protectors
    Dagryn's Discarded Longbow - Galakras
    Kor'kron Hand Cannon - Malkorok
    Hisek's Reserve Longbow - Paragons of the Klaxxi
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  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    I'd say that the assurance of consequence and the ticking ebon detonator are the best. Also your BiS list is slightly off. You can get more agi with the pants as the offset item.
    As I said it was a quick first glance, also do you have data on the trinkets(ICD, RPPM rates), they might be buried somewhere but can't find them.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    As I said it was a quick first glance, also do you have data on the trinkets(ICD, RPPM rates), they might be buried somewhere but can't find them.
    The rates are in the tooltip if you log on to the PTR. Out of memory, the ones with ICDs are all 105 seconds I believe and the Real PPM ones are around ~.5 real ppm.

    If they still didn't fix the other trinkets for our pets I'm certain that BM will be using the combo I said above.

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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    Trinket
    Assurance of Consequence - Sha of Pride
    Haromm's Talisman Kor'kron Dark Shaman
    Sigil of Rampage - Spoils of Pandaria
    Ticking Ebon Detonator - Siegecrafter Blackfuse
    I'm not so sure that Ticking Ebon Detonator is better than Haromm's.

    Haromm's has a 14% chance to proc an attack that does 33% of the original damage.... For simplicity's sake, let's say that our attacks do 100 damage.

    100*.14 = 14*.33 = 4.62% flat dps boost. Add to that an 11,761 agility proc.


    Ebon Detonator has +1,959 mastery, our worst stat, which at level 90 is a 3.27% boost to mastery.... The flat dps boost differs by spec, but it is well under 3.27%.

    It has a 21,380 agility proc for 10 sec, decreasing by 1,069 every .5 sec, or 2,138 every global cooldown... For an average proc of 10,690 agility. Unless you have plenty of focus and have your signature shots ready to go, you're going to lose out on the first second or two, hurting it's value more than the flat 11k proc.


    That said, the super skilled hunters who track their trinket cooldowns well can probably make Ebon Detonator work for them..... the other 95% of hunters would be better served with Haromm's, IMO.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Rackfu View Post
    I'm not so sure that Ticking Ebon Detonator is better than Haromm's.

    Haromm's has a 14% chance to proc an attack that does 33% of the original damage.... For simplicity's sake, let's say that our attacks do 100 damage.

    100*.14 = 14*.33 = 4.62% flat dps boost. Add to that an 11,761 agility proc.


    Ebon Detonator has +1,959 mastery, our worst stat, which at level 90 is a 3.27% boost to mastery.... The flat dps boost differs by spec, but it is well under 3.27%.

    It has a 21,380 agility proc for 10 sec, decreasing by 1,069 every .5 sec, or 2,138 every global cooldown... For an average proc of 10,690 agility. Unless you have plenty of focus and have your signature shots ready to go, you're going to lose out on the first second or two, hurting it's value more than the flat 11k proc.


    That said, the super skilled hunters who track their trinket cooldowns well can probably make Ebon Detonator work for them..... the other 95% of hunters would be better served with Haromm's, IMO.
    Your calculations for Haromm's would be correct if it affected 100% of our damage. it does not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    The rates are in the tooltip if you log on to the PTR. Out of memory, the ones with ICDs are all 105 seconds I believe and the Real PPM ones are around ~.5 real ppm.

    If they still didn't fix the other trinkets for our pets I'm certain that BM will be using the combo I said above.
    This is wrong. The ICD trinkets appear to be 115 seconds and the real ppl trinkets are closer to 1 real ppm.

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Your calculations for Haromm's would be correct if it affected 100% of our damage. it does not.
    What part of our damage doesn't it affect? Trinket proc makes it sound like it does 33% of damage dealt.

  11. #31
    No one mentioned the weapons from Garrosh yet it seems. He drops several heirloom weapons which at the moment have a higher item level than any other weapons in the whole raid. This is the heroic ranged weapon we can use:



    It feels really off having our BiS weapon be a BoA weapon, but that's the way it currently is on the PTR. But I'm expecting this to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rackfu View Post
    What part of our damage doesn't it affect? Trinket proc makes it sound like it does 33% of damage dealt.
    It doesn't effect our pets and guardians for starters. So our pets, Dire Beast and Stampede damage will be completely unaffected. I'm not sure on Murder of Crows.

    But after testing both trinkets on several fights, I'm currently leaning towards the Multi-Strike trinket as well. But take that with a grain of salt, it's very difficult to test trinkets properly when you are also trying to learn all the mechanics of a completely new boss and trying to figure out how to deal with everything effectively.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-08-07 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Holy typos batman.
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    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rackfu View Post
    What part of our damage doesn't it affect? Trinket proc makes it sound like it does 33% of damage dealt.
    Right. But 33% of <100 is less than 33% of 100. So it should actually be lower than that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As far as I know it doesn't seem to tick off of dot ticks and our pet cannot proc it. So right there it loses ~15% from the pet and X% from our dot(s). If dot application does damage like improved serpent sting, then it can proc off of that.

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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    snip
    Ah... I had no idea where those dropped from... I saw them on the front page awhile back.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    As far as I know it doesn't seem to tick off of dot ticks
    It was proccing from DoT ticks until at least last PTR build. I haven't logged in since then.
    I'll test it right now actually along with Murder of Crows.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Right. But 33% of <100 is less than 33% of 100. So it should actually be lower than that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As far as I know it doesn't seem to tick off of dot ticks and our pet cannot proc it. So right there it loses ~15% from the pet and X% from our dot(s). If dot application does damage like improved serpent sting, then it can proc off of that.
    Ok... I wasn't taking pet into account and just assumed it could proc off DoT's


    Still, I feel that the Ebon Detonator is a trinket geared towards players who play very well (top 10%) and it's value is diminished greatly for the vast majority of players.
    Last edited by Rackfu; 2013-08-07 at 11:51 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    No HDD space, plus download takes ages. NTY.
    Install the PTR
    Start to download then close the launcher
    Copy your live data .mpq's etc into the PTR one
    Open up the launcher - Download 200mb and play.

  17. #37
    Also, I haven't fully tested it. I'm not sure if it can proc off of the meta gem or any other effects like that.

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  18. #38
    I hope people can take my word for this, as I can't seem to find a reliable way to get evidence or prove it due to the RNG nature of the trinket. However, it procs off Serpent Sting, Explosive Trap and Black Arrow still. It also procs from Murder of Crows. Multi-Strike still works on the legendary cloak proc as well.

    After 500 pet attacks, it still hasn't procced from my pet, or my Stampede pets. So I think it's safe to say that pets are still excluded from the trinket.
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  19. #39
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    Didn't know where to post this but a raider found this just now.

    Renataki's Soul Charm/Jikun Feather/Wushoolay's has been nerfed

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/96741-renatakis-soul-charm

    Agi every 2 seconds for 20 seconds to Agi every 1 second for 10 seconds.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    I hope people can take my word for this, as I can't seem to find a reliable way to get evidence or prove it due to the RNG nature of the trinket. However, it procs off Serpent Sting, Explosive Trap and Black Arrow still. It also procs from Murder of Crows. Multi-Strike still works on the legendary cloak proc as well.

    After 500 pet attacks, it still hasn't procced from my pet, or my Stampede pets. So I think it's safe to say that pets are still excluded from the trinket.
    I spent a few minutes just SrSing all the dummies as BM and I never got a proc off of SrS. Do you have a log or whatever?

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