5.4 Elemental

[Robula]

We have not yet balanced DPS for Hunters (or anyone) for 5.4.

Yes! There is still hope for Elementool!

I'm hoping they make totems a little more fun to use and worth using (Searing/Magma).
I want to see Earthquake put back into play, to the point it would be worth casting on 4+ mobs.
Our talents are cookie cutter, no one uses Elemental Mastery or Ancestral Swiftness as Echo is better in every situation (even for PE). Overall level 90 talent tier needs tweaking, still not sure Unleashed Fury would be viable even with the 10% extra damage to Lightning Bolt in 5.4.
Unleash Elements ability (Flametongue) is still crap... But like EQ, it's always been crap.


What changes/tweaks would you like to see?

[asharia]

balancing means numbers.

not changing mechanics of spells

[Falu]

From my understanding, Elemental's damage in PvE seems pretty solid in 5.4, better than in 5.2/5.3.
Or am I wrong?

[Deleted]

Once you start seeing flat tweaks to numbers you know that large mechanical changes are over and the patch is coming closer. Only mechanical 5.4 changes that still have me worried is the 2pc adding another failboat target switch mechanic and the 4pc summoning a derpbot that fights a humming crystal for its entire uptime.

[shammypie]

Once you start seeing flat tweaks to numbers you know that large mechanical changes are over and the patch is coming closer. Only mechanical 5.4 changes that still have me worried is the 2pc adding another failboat target switch mechanic and the 4pc summoning a derpbot that fights a humming crystal for its entire uptime.

so what were the changes to resto then?

[mmines]

so what were the changes to resto then?

So far the only number tweaks they really did was healing rain which was a mechanic change before.

As for elemental our scaling is gonna take a nose dive next patch when we're forced to start getting crit because we'll be hard capped on mastery and haste. That's something that number tweaks won't really help all that much except serve to make it op at lower ilvls.

[Ellsian]

So far the only number tweaks they really did was healing rain which was a mechanic change before.

As for elemental our scaling is gonna take a nose dive next patch when we're forced to start getting crit because we'll be hard capped on mastery and haste. That's something that number tweaks won't really help all that much except serve to make it op at lower ilvls.

I'm thinking/hoping that Shaman won't be nearing hard caps until in almost full heroic gear anyways (which will be the end of progression anyways). I'm more concerned with how bad the tier 16 bonuses are

[Angrysteel]

I'm thinking/hoping that Shaman won't be nearing hard caps until in almost full heroic gear anyways (which will be the end of progression anyways). I'm more concerned with how bad the tier 16 bonuses are

On PTR, with 2 trinkets (Amp and Cleave), and just the normal 5/5 new tier set, and the rest of my gear being 5.3 stuff, i am sitting at 100% mastery (always on, no buffs), and ~11k haste. If you get lucky on week 1 and pick up an Amp trinket, you will be capping secondary stats extremely early in 5.4. You will definitely be capped with just a full normal set of 5.4 gear, the heroic or even TF heroic gear isnt going to be required to hardcap you on 2 stats at all.

[Txiv]

I mean how much does this put our Dps back though is the question. Everyone talks about how terrible we will be if we cap but no one had put numbers to show ele being significantly behind other ranged. I mean warlock and Mage already have better ceiling Dps so we will probably stay right where we are now in the lineup

[Ellsian]

On PTR, with 2 trinkets (Amp and Cleave), and just the normal 5/5 new tier set, and the rest of my gear being 5.3 stuff, i am sitting at 100% mastery (always on, no buffs), and ~11k haste. If you get lucky on week 1 and pick up an Amp trinket, you will be capping secondary stats extremely early in 5.4. You will definitely be capped with just a full normal set of 5.4 gear, the heroic or even TF heroic gear isnt going to be required to hardcap you on 2 stats at all.

Are you sure your amp trinket isn't just being scaled by the PTR ilevel? I put 2 amp trinks on, with all 5/5 t16, gemmed all int/mastery and I'm at 81% mastery (in town, not scaled).

[Ardourdan]

Even if we do hit haste caps (18,500 being the first) we can just go full mastery or go back to stacking intellect.

[Angrysteel]

Are you sure your amp trinket isn't just being scaled by the PTR ilevel? I put 2 amp trinks on, with all 5/5 t16, gemmed all int/mastery and I'm at 81% mastery (in town, not scaled).

Running double Amp trinket (healer and dps) i am at like 105% mastery (can reforge some off), in town, always on. I am gemmed nearly full mastery tho. Was more of a proof of concept. Did use double amp on the bosses today on ptr, and wow, the damage was ridiculous. I was able to proc both trinkets together nearly every time within 10 seconds of pull, and they lasted the whole duration of ascendance. I cant see these trinkets going live atleast not without making them unique. With banner i was pushing out ~1 mil damage every gcd (with lust / meta well under 1.0 seconds, so gcd capped sadly). Each lava burst hit for ~510k + 100% overload chance at ~400k each. Easy 1 mil if echo proc'd, didnt look for echos tho.


Not sure what gear you are using to only get to 81% (might just be the gems, i will try int / mastery hybrids and i think i can still have 100% mastery). The gear i am using is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...steel/advanced with 5/5 new tier and 2 trinkets. I am still missing several mastery pieces as well, such as Loa mastery bracers, Ra-den belt, Iron Qon ring, etc.

Either combo of double amp or amp + cleave trinket puts me over 100% mastery. Double amp being the bigger damage increase becauses the crit damage bonuses stack.

EDIT:



These are my stats sitting in town on PTR, unbuffed (minus the 10% mastery buff ele always has on). This is with double amp, and INT is at 23,000. INT is a little low, because i only changed a few pure mastery gems to hybrid int/mastery gems. But, as you can see, haste is still just fine, mastery is capped, hit is capped, and this is with mostly 5.3 gear equip. Cant imagine we will be in a good place at all with full heroic TF, since we simply wont gain much damage from the gear, minus some INT upgrades because we will be capped on both haste and mastery very very quickly.

This also leads to Elemental Blast being unusable imo. PE is still very good, and havent tested Unleashed.

[Digger Dave]

I mean how much does this put our Dps back though is the question. Everyone talks about how terrible we will be if we cap but no one had put numbers to show ele being significantly behind other ranged. I mean warlock and Mage already have better ceiling Dps so we will probably stay right where we are now in the lineup

Imagine if scaling for ele stopped in normal mode ToT gear. How do you think you could compete with a 550 ilvl raid when your effective ilvl is the equivalent of 530 or so? Classes like fire mages are going to keep climbing the ladder while Ele will fall dead in its tracks at some point.

[Deleted]

@Angrysteel

I don't know exactly how the stat values will shift in 5.4 but as of now, haste > mastery.
That being said, Im at 53% mastery atm in 546 with haste reforge und mostly int, int/haste socketed. If I keep this route, I dont think I will hit 100% mastery with JUST the stats on the gear, if I stay away from reforging and gemming into haste. Could be wrong tho, with heroic gear, you never know.

[Txiv]

Imagine if scaling for ele stopped in normal mode ToT gear. How do you think you could compete with a 550 ilvl raid when your effective ilvl is the equivalent of 530 or so? Classes like fire mages are going to keep climbing the ladder while Ele will fall dead in its tracks at some point.

But this is what I am talking about. It's all speculation. People talk about these caps like they are a death sentence but no one has proof elemental will lag behind.

[Ellsian]

Running double Amp trinket (healer and dps) i am at like 105% mastery (can reforge some off), in town, always on. I am gemmed nearly full mastery tho. Was more of a proof of concept. Did use double amp on the bosses today on ptr, and wow, the damage was ridiculous. I was able to proc both trinkets together nearly every time within 10 seconds of pull, and they lasted the whole duration of ascendance. I cant see these trinkets going live atleast not without making them unique. With banner i was pushing out ~1 mil damage every gcd (with lust / meta well under 1.0 seconds, so gcd capped sadly). Each lava burst hit for ~510k + 100% overload chance at ~400k each. Easy 1 mil if echo proc'd, didnt look for echos tho.


Not sure what gear you are using to only get to 81% (might just be the gems, i will try int / mastery hybrids and i think i can still have 100% mastery). The gear i am using is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...steel/advanced with 5/5 new tier and 2 trinkets. I am still missing several mastery pieces as well, such as Loa mastery bracers, Ra-den belt, Iron Qon ring, etc.

Either combo of double amp or amp + cleave trinket puts me over 100% mastery. Double amp being the bigger damage increase becauses the crit damage bonuses stack.

EDIT:



These are my stats sitting in town on PTR, unbuffed (minus the 10% mastery buff ele always has on). This is with double amp, and INT is at 23,000. INT is a little low, because i only changed a few pure mastery gems to hybrid int/mastery gems. But, as you can see, haste is still just fine, mastery is capped, hit is capped, and this is with mostly 5.3 gear equip. Cant imagine we will be in a good place at all with full heroic TF, since we simply wont gain much damage from the gear, minus some INT upgrades because we will be capped on both haste and mastery very very quickly.

This also leads to Elemental Blast being unusable imo. PE is still very good, and havent tested Unleashed.

Ah ok, gemming full on mastery at the expense of bonuses I can almost hit 100% myself (and the rest is a difference in gear). Not sure if that's what's going to be considered ideal gemming next tier though, but if it is then yes, cap will be much easier to get to And yes, double Amp Trink is hilariously OP in PTR. There's no way they can allow that to go live (at least I hope not, or my healers will kill me for rolling on their trink). It's fun in testing though!

[Deleted]

Uhm, with the cap of haste (18,500) isn't much better back to the intellect? why all shamans choose mastery?

[Sarevokcz]

But this is what I am talking about. It's all speculation. People talk about these caps like they are a death sentence but no one has proof elemental will lag behind.

its called an educated guess... tho there are more specs with limited scalling, ele is just a tip of the iceberg with all 3 stats pretty limited in potential and its not reall yhard to imagine ele having problems again in that department, especially with those new trinkets, ToT and haste capping was called pretty well in advance too.

[Deleted]

@Angrysteel

I don't know exactly how the stat values will shift in 5.4 but as of now, haste > mastery.
That being said, Im at 53% mastery atm in 546 with haste reforge und mostly int, int/haste socketed. If I keep this route, I dont think I will hit 100% mastery with JUST the stats on the gear, if I stay away from reforging and gemming into haste. Could be wrong tho, with heroic gear, you never know.

Why are you gemming int? unless your gear level is low (under 520) both Haste and Mastery should be stronger than Int gemming for you, probably significantly.

Uhm, with the cap of haste (18,500) isn't much better back to the intellect? why all shamans choose mastery?

Current gemming weights are Haste > Mastery > Int > Crit. We'll have to wait and see ofcourse, and numbers haven't been tuned for the patch yet, but it's looking likely that with the massive nerfs to RPPM Haste and Mastery should swap around.

edit:

Did use double amp on the bosses today on ptr, and wow, the damage was ridiculous. I was able to proc both trinkets together nearly every time within 10 seconds of pull, and they lasted the whole duration of ascendance. I cant see these trinkets going live atleast not without making them unique.

it's already in the PTR, you can't proc the healer trinket as DPS anymore. The passive seems to still be working though. screenshot here.

[CHRONICGODX]

100% mastery? you lucky bastards.