1. #1

    Why Holy Paladin Nerfs? Priest too strong

    With the direct nerf to Eternal Flame healing, removing mastery absorbs from EF and Ex Sentance, It's going to hit Holy Paladin hard, Especially in pvp.
    We are already hands down the weakest arena healer due to lack of mobility and how easily we are cc'd, and now direct healing nerfs.
    It's not that we can't CC, it's that we are too reliant on being in close range to be effective with them which is easily countered.

    Druid stealths in catform, stun, into clone x 3. animal form on repents or fears. Cant escape.
    Priest Guise into fear into DM, avoidable with speed of light, but still, they usally get it off easily. (esp with speed buffs of their own)
    Holy will guise, into chastise, into dm into fear into dm again which is even worse.
    Hpal gets Rebirth from symbio. (completely useless in pvp) What does priest get? Cyclone. Freakin Cyclone. Dont get me started on all their other tricks and pvp advantages.

    SO now that we all agree holy paladin is the weakest pvp healer, why nerf them? They say Eternal flame is being used by the vast majority of Holy pallies, but instead of buffing the other talents, they simply nerf Eflame. Ive been playing Hpally since beginning of wrath and have been trying to progressivly get better at it as times goes by. I suppose I could reroll a druid or priest but I really dont want to/nor do I think it's fair to start at square 1 again.
    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Decorpse; 2013-08-06 at 08:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Decorpse View Post
    With the direct nerf to Eternal Flame healing, removing mastery absorbs from EF and Ex Sentance, It's going to hit Holy Paladin hard, Especially in pvp.
    We are already hands down the weakest arena healer due to lack of mobility and how easily we are cc'd, and now direct healing nerfs.
    It's not that we can't CC, it's that we are too reliant on being in close range to be effective with them which is easily countered.

    SO now that we all agree holy paladin is the weakest pvp healer, why nerf them? They say Eternal flame is being used by the vast majority of Holy pallies, but instead of buffing the other talents, they simply nerf Eflame. Ive been playing Hpally since beginning of wrath and have been trying to progressivly get better at it as times goes by. I suppose I could reroll a druid or priest but I really dont want to/nor do I think it's fair to start at square 1 again.
    Thoughts?
    1) Eternal flame's periodic mastery shield is being removed, but the periodic heal is being buffed by 40% while the initial heal of both WoG and EF are being buffed.
    2) Execution sentence keeps its mastery shield, blizz said that somewhere, and thats a mostly useless talent in pvp anyway compared to prism.
    3) Our cc is being buffed by allowing us to choose a fear DR, opening us up to more comps. However it is a nerf that its no longer instantly usable on lock pets / dk ghouls / etc.
    4) Our holy shock cd and gcd is now reduced by haste, solid buff.
    5) New selfless healer proccing holy power is a good buff.
    6) Divine Plea no longer reduces healing, buff.
    7) Sacred shield kinda-sorta nerfed, Selfless healer will probably be better now anyway though.
    8) Seal of insight no longer giving mana sucks

    Holy pallys are getting almost nothing but buffs for pvp in 5.4, however it isn't enough to keep up with the stupidity that are priests and druids, especially after the unneeded buffs they are getting. It may keep them in line with shamans and monks, we will see.
    Last edited by Hand Banana; 2013-08-06 at 09:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Alanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decorpse View Post
    With the direct nerf to Eternal Flame healing, removing mastery absorbs from EF and Ex Sentance, It's going to hit Holy Paladin hard, Especially in pvp.
    We are already hands down the weakest arena healer due to lack of mobility and how easily we are cc'd, and now direct healing nerfs.
    It's not that we can't CC, it's that we are too reliant on being in close range to be effective with them which is easily countered.

    Druid stealths in catform, stun, into clone x 3. animal form on repents or fears. Cant escape.
    Priest Guise into fear into DM, avoidable with speed of light, but still, they usally get it off easily. (esp with speed buffs of their own)
    Holy will guise, into chastise, into dm into fear into dm again which is even worse.
    Hpal gets Rebirth from symbio. (completely useless in pvp) What does priest get? Cyclone. Freakin Cyclone. Dont get me started on all their other tricks and pvp advantages.

    SO now that we all agree holy paladin is the weakest pvp healer, why nerf them? They say Eternal flame is being used by the vast majority of Holy pallies, but instead of buffing the other talents, they simply nerf Eflame. Ive been playing Hpally since beginning of wrath and have been trying to progressivly get better at it as times goes by. I suppose I could reroll a druid or priest but I really dont want to/nor do I think it's fair to start at square 1 again.
    Thoughts?
    1 thing I like to say is that no, I have no remorse for holy paladins, they have been OP for to long only thing they need to do now is nerf resto/disc.


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    1 thing I like to say is that no, I have no remorse for holy paladins, they have been OP for to long only thing they need to do now is nerf resto/disc.
    i hate this statement. They should not be viable, cuz they were strong for a long time? why not just balance them?

    as of 5.3 i think hpally are very weak, 5.4 i have no idea.

  5. #5
    I have been playing Paladin since the Burning Crusade now, and have agreed that they were way to over powered when first released. However I think that happens with every class due to Blizzard obviously wanting to make money. "Oh look we will give you an OP class if you buy our expansion". The same happened with Death Knights, and Monks.

    Recently though, through Cataclysm and Pandaria, Paladins have been at the bottom of the pile for love. Not once before this patch did I see a single nice patch note helping Paladins, and I think they are reverting to that again, half way through 5.4. They gave us our buff to try and make us more useful in PVP and yet keep us not overpowered in PVE. But now they are starting to nerf the buffs given. Also, the buffs we have been given aren't necessarily what we need. The problem with Paladin in PVP is that it is too easily CCed, and cannot get out unless popping "bubble" or "trinket". The only buff I have seen in this Patch worth noting for PVP is the "Turn Evil" buff, but that is just my opinion.

    Blizzard either nerf Discipline Priest and Restoration Druid, or bring the other healers up to their level! Please. ;(

  6. #6
    So i tried to tranq of some priests buffs well fuck me.... They have like 3000 shields and 5000 heals on....
    I hate them! (Anakin skywalker Hate cry!!)

    Generally healers are to strong in 2v2...
    And those damn forsaken pillars! Give me a flat arena.

    " A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities "

  7. #7
    Hahah, arenas you say?

    Remember Wotlk and Cata? I for one do, blizzard just wants you to have a break.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Holypredz View Post
    The problem with Paladin in PVP is that it is too easily CCed, and cannot get out unless popping "bubble" or "trinket".
    (
    I agree with what you said, recently hpallys have not been OP at all, they were good in 5.0 with all the KFC stupidity because they were the only class that could handle stampede 1shotting people. In TBC hpallys were trash, in WOTLK they were OP in s5 and s6, good in s7, ok in s8. Pretty weak all of cata, but then everyone was in comparison to shams. Not seeing where "OP for so long" is coming from, tbh rshams and rdruids have had way more strong seasons.

    But to the above quote, hpallies problem is not that they are too easily cc'd, its the fact that they have to put themselves in a position to be cc'd more often than anyone else. Without meaningful shields or hots they are forced into LOS more often and have to directly heal more than any other healer. My priest can shield, pom, then go about my business los'ing or cc'ing or whatever and unless the other team is blowing cds all is good. Pallys dont have that luxury; I really wish sacred shield or EF were baseline so we could at least have a decent shield or hot without having to sacrifice the new selfless healer (which is baller) or our only hot/shield.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    1 thing I like to say is that no, I have no remorse for holy paladins, they have been OP for to long only thing they need to do now is nerf resto/disc.
    holy paladins have been pretty average for a lot of season, mostly they only excel if there are particular OP melee that season. druids/priests have been op and have a lot more flexibility in terms of comps then can play then holy paladins.

    and yes, holy paladins are really pretty mediocre in pvp and pve right now, so i have no idea why they are nerfing them further.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    and yes, holy paladins are really pretty mediocre in pvp and pve right now, so i have no idea why they are nerfing them further.
    Hpallys are not being nerfed, don't agree with him when hes obviously incorrect. Hpallys are receiving numerous BUFFS for pvp come 5.4, not nerfs. I don't know why he thinks the EF periodic mastery shield nerf is so crazy bad when they are upping the healing it does and the periodic heal as well as buffing other things. I think its a case of seeing 1 little thing and overreacting without seeing the whole picture.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Hpallys are not being nerfed, don't agree with him when hes obviously incorrect. Hpallys are receiving numerous BUFFS for pvp come 5.4, not nerfs. I don't know why he thinks the EF periodic mastery shield nerf is so crazy bad when they are upping the healing it does and the periodic heal as well as buffing other things. I think its a case of seeing 1 little thing and overreacting without seeing the whole picture.
    nerfing mastery shields exacerbates holy paladin's problem with their controllability. in the past their massive output could compensate for their weak/non existent hots and shields. but their output and mana longevity are really poor right now.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    nerfing mastery shields exacerbates holy paladin's problem with their controllability. in the past their massive output could compensate for their weak/non existent hots and shields. but their output and mana longevity are really poor right now.
    You realize they are nerfing the mastery shield proc attached to the HOT alone. Thats about a 3k shield every 3 seconds, it was OP (apparently) in pve but honestly not even noticeable in pvp. In addition, they are buffing the initial of WoG and EF by 25% and the periodic heal of EF by 40%. EF is way better come 5.4 than it is now for pvp (unless you somehow had 40% mastery which im pretty sure is impossible). However with the selfless healer buffs its going to be a toss-up. We are also getting numerous other buffs, hpallys will be much better in 5.4. I highly doubt they can keep up with rdruids and disc priests though, but then again who will with the buffs they are both getting.

  13. #13
    have Holy pallys even been good since season 5?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    You realize they are nerfing the mastery shield proc attached to the HOT alone. Thats about a 3k shield every 3 seconds, it was OP (apparently) in pve but honestly not even noticeable in pvp. In addition, they are buffing the initial of WoG and EF by 25% and the periodic heal of EF by 40%. EF is way better come 5.4 than it is now for pvp (unless you somehow had 40% mastery which im pretty sure is impossible). However with the selfless healer buffs its going to be a toss-up. We are also getting numerous other buffs, hpallys will be much better in 5.4. I highly doubt they can keep up with rdruids and disc priests though, but then again who will with the buffs they are both getting.
    it wasn't op in pve, not at all, particularly when you compare it with the mechanic ignoring power of spirit shell.

    holy paladins are actually pretty average in terms of their pve output because their spirit scaling is behind forcing them to continue to gem full spirit when other healers can focus on throughput stats.

    EF doesn't heal for very much, even with the buffs, certainly not enough to compete with druid/priest and most assuredly not enough to compensate for holy paladin's controllability.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  15. #15
    They nerfed us because Blizzard has no idea what they're doing with the spec.

  16. #16
    Hand of Salvation should make the target untargetable for 3-5 seconds. This would allow us a little more mobility in arena so we dont get auto cc as soon as we step out from behind a pillar. Just a small suggestion that would make us just a little harder to lock down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    "So i tried to tranq of some priests buffs well fuck me.... They have like 3000 shields and 5000 heals on....
    I hate them! (Anakin skywalker Hate cry!!)"

    No kidding, its like tranq tranq tranq tranq, out of focus, priest reapplies in 4 seconds.
    Great now the priest has all buffs back and youre out of focus lol thanks for coming
    Last edited by Decorpse; 2013-08-09 at 06:38 PM.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal UpInFlames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holypredz View Post
    I have been playing Paladin since the Burning Crusade now, and have agreed that they were way to over powered when first released. However I think that happens with every class due to Blizzard obviously wanting to make money. "Oh look we will give you an OP class if you buy our expansion". The same happened with Death Knights, and Monks.

    Recently though, through Cataclysm and Pandaria, Paladins have been at the bottom of the pile for love. Not once before this patch did I see a single nice patch note helping Paladins, and I think they are reverting to that again, half way through 5.4. They gave us our buff to try and make us more useful in PVP and yet keep us not overpowered in PVE. But now they are starting to nerf the buffs given. Also, the buffs we have been given aren't necessarily what we need. The problem with Paladin in PVP is that it is too easily CCed, and cannot get out unless popping "bubble" or "trinket". The only buff I have seen in this Patch worth noting for PVP is the "Turn Evil" buff, but that is just my opinion.

    Blizzard either nerf Discipline Priest and Restoration Druid, or bring the other healers up to their level! Please. ;(
    Paladins have been in the game since classic and Monks have never been op in pvp

  18. #18
    Paladins have to be bad at something. That's Blizzard's way of balancing.

  19. #19
    They should've kept insta turn evil glyph, but make it not work when evil is a point of view is taken. No insta fear on pets is a pretty big nerf. Haste affecting hshock is meh - stacking spirit/crit will still be best. EF heal buff is alright, but doesn't really help with hpal's main issues in PvP which is being the most penalized and susceptible to CCs/lockouts compared to every other healer. I wish I was a priest.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Decorpse View Post
    I suppose I could reroll a druid or priest but I really dont want to/nor do I think it's fair to start at square 1 again.
    Thoughts?
    One thought is that I rerolled from Druid to Priest this patch, and I feel like I'm just about as good at Priest as I was at the Druid that I'd played for a couple years. Relearning a class isn't that big of a deal.

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