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  1. #201
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVLodge View Post
    The topic of racials has been discussed over the years to a great extent and after some research I have compiled the main advantages and disadvantages of the removal of this core part of the game into one thread:



    Advantages

    • Creation of an even playing field in terms of PvE and PvP
    • Makes race choice purely cosmetic
    • Wider race representation - positive effect on RP

    Disadvantages

    • Race choice (GC apparently stated this on the official forums) may become uninteresting
    • Could also have a negative impact on RP (removal of race defining abilities) i.e. Removal of stoneform takes part of the dwarves potential stone-skin origins away
    • Removal of a long term, core, part of the game - may annoy some old timers or new players alike

    My overall thoughts are that racials should be revamped to be purely cosmetic. This way race uniqueness is retained whilst ridding some of the current in-game (potentially unfair) advantages i.e. Humans EMFH in PvP.

    Then again, Blizzard makes far too much cash from race changes based upon the players desire to min-max either their performance in PvE or PvP. Why would they ever remove or change the current racial situation?

    What would you like to see done with racials? Would you completely revamp the system or leave them be?
    No, they shouldn't be removed. We aren't the same and nor is our choices. There's ups and downs for all of them. Some racials already got removed, and so did a little of the flair they gave the race (Find Treasure for Dwarves (WTB back)).

    I like that we aren't the same, else we might as well just revert down to Orcs Vs. Humans again. So all are one of two races.
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  2. #202
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    Problem.
    People take certain races because their racial traits are more powerful than others in certain situations.

    Solution 1
    Remove all Racial traits.

    Solution 2
    Let people Choose their racial traits

    Solution 3
    Give all races a "Every man for himself" as a base trait

    Any of the solutions above would fix the problem, but by doing any of them then people would complain for some reason.
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  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldrad View Post
    Having racial abilities removed from the game and thus making Race purely a cosmetic choice is probably the stupidest idea anyone has every conceived.
    I do not give a crap about your 2% increased damage in a boss fight from a racial, or your nifty little PvP CC, or your this or your that...
    I care about the game not being a bland piece of shit.
    If someone is jealous that a night elf druid can drop combat and fly away whenever the hell they want in the world, then make a night elf druid, not another kind of druid.
    If someone is pissed that humans don't have to equip a clear loss of control clearing PvP trinket, then make a human.

    There should be more racial abilities in the game in my opinion. Let taurens one shot gnomes with "gnome stomp", let dwarves be able to seen mining nodes that other classes can't, etc etc...
    IN fact!! There should be racial penalties! That will never happen, but what an amazing idea. I could think of some awesome ones.

    Bottom line...
    Your choices should impact your game play and the game should feel alive. Not just different shaped graphics on a screen because you chose a troll over a worgen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Following a trend of removing racial abilities, the next thing people would be whining about is; "Should all classes have the same abilities, and just be a cosmetic choice?"

    - - - Updated - - -



    When content can't be cleared WITHOUT making trolls, THEN you have a problem. Until then of course players are going to go for something they can milk more numbers out of... that's human nature. But is it game breaking? Ultimately no.
    By strict definition it isnt. But it's really scratching the boarder right now and it does have an impact on the game to some degree. Picking Humans for PvP at the moment is one of the most optimal choice. Not the best, but better choice. This slight imbalance alone is enough to affect the game. PvP alliance guilds that dont recruit you because you're not a human, that's one example.

    Picking a race over racials is like picking up some discipline not because you like it but because it's what the jazz is all about at the moment. Or like people got into barcelona - madrid rivalry because it is trendy. Those are sad reasons. Picking a race in WoW basing on numbers instead of what they are is sad.

  4. #204
    No. They are absolutely fine. Hihihi.

    In ToT we were told that troll racials are fine, because beast bosses are mostly in the first half of the instance. Now we will have a beast boss as the 11th boss in SoO and it so happens that the only difference between heroic and normal is around 100% more HP and a tighter enrage timer. Will be fun as Im in an alliance guild!

  5. #205
    Following a trend of removing racial abilities, the next thing people would be whining about is; "Should all classes have the same abilities, and just be a cosmetic choice?"
    Well I can tell you are being sarcastic (seriously hope you are) and this would be ridiculous. Racials are far less significant than class abilities but balancing them all by making them cosmetic would surely aid class balance in the long run too.

  6. #206
    I think you should have the option to pick and change ur racial at any point just like curent talents. That would let us keep them in game and create a 'level playing field'.

  7. #207
    Removed? No. But, direct combat bonuses SHOULD be removed. Worgen sprint, goblin rocket jump, Draenei heal, all fine, though offer obvious benefits to PVP and some nice PVE perks. Bloodfury and berserking though, NEED to go. Both are far, far stronger than any other racial bonus. All of the "+1%" attribute talents need to go too, since some offer a combat advantage while others are completely useless (which plate DPS class needs +1% hit?!).

    In short, more "flavor" racials, less combat oriented ones.

  8. #208
    I think you should have the option to pick and change ur racial at any point just like curent talents. That would let us keep them in game and create a 'level playing field'.
    This could work I suppose. Blizzard would have to make some big adjustments though.

  9. #209
    SURE! Homogenize the game even more why don't you.

  10. #210
    Dreadlord dawawe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicz View Post
    Orcs can burst down players faster and humans can have a extra trinket for pvp...
    Hmm.... Racial's shud be more cosmetic... All my PvP chars are humans.... And i play a fantasy game... But to be competitive i have to be a human,.... I do not approve of this.
    You dont have to be a human to be competitive. its about skill. How do you explain all the non-human alliance characters in high brackets? Stop holding on to your crutches, if youre good at pvp youre going to be higher rated if you suck its not going to matter what racial you have. My highest rated toon(2287) is a belf priest, no "op" fear break and not a human. If you pvp as a human for the "extra" trinket and only that youre probably not going to get very high anyways.
    Why read words when we can kill stuff the words tell us about?
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  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    You dont have to be a human to be competitive. its about skill. How do you explain all the non-human alliance characters in high brackets? Stop holding on to your crutches, if youre good at pvp youre going to be higher rated if you suck its not going to matter what racial you have. My highest rated toon(2287) is a belf priest, no "op" fear break and not a human. If you pvp as a human for the "extra" trinket and only that youre probably not going to get very high anyways.
    Yeah, and also gear doesn't matter, because you know this game is all about pure skill and not having quantifiable advantages through better stats. This is the most ridiculous argument I have heard, just look at how easily a pvp pro can be destroyed in world pvp now by players with 50+ ilvls gear advantage over them and no more resilience. I'm sure when you duel rogues in 5.4 who just hit killing spree and instantly kill you because of OP set bonuses and pve gear, that will also be pure skill.
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  12. #212
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    I agree that both Will of the Forsaken and Every Man for Himself is a little bit excessive, but a lot of the other racials are not excessive in the same manner all the time.

    A lot of people are citing the Troll racial, but how often has the Troll racial been that great, and, a lot of people tend to be blowing out of proportion the impact that the Troll racial is actually having in Throne of Thunder.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    I agree that both Will of the Forsaken and Every Man for Himself is a little bit excessive, but a lot of the other racials are not excessive in the same manner all the time.

    A lot of people are citing the Troll racial, but how often has the Troll racial been that great, and, a lot of people tend to be blowing out of proportion the impact that the Troll racial is actually having in Throne of Thunder.
    When lined up with classes that have extreme windows of burst (like rogues), the berserk racial can result in you having several million more damage done over the course of a long fight like H Lei Shen (note that on this fight a rogue can perfectly line up all cds 3 times due to how phase transitions work out). Even Blizz has now admitted that how haste works on the current RPPM trinkets is too powerful.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
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  14. #214
    but how often has the Troll racial been that great
    Has it not always been the best PvE racial? Or atleast within the top two?

  15. #215
    The Lightbringer Ciddy's Avatar
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    I like the fact that races have unique racial abilities. It's a problem when one race has an ability that's too powerful, but flat-out removing all racials is not the answer. They just need to be balanced.
    Last edited by Ciddy; 2013-08-09 at 11:04 PM.

  16. #216
    Dreadlord dawawe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Yeah, and also gear doesn't matter, because you know this game is all about pure skill and not having quantifiable advantages through better stats. This is the most ridiculous argument I have heard, just look at how easily a pvp pro can be destroyed in world pvp now by players with 50+ ilvls gear advantage over them and no more resilience. I'm sure when you duel rogues in 5.4 who just hit killing spree and instantly kill you because of OP set bonuses and pve gear, that will also be pure skill.
    Nobody considers world pvp serious pvp. not even blizzard. In real pvp everyone is scaled to teh same ILVL if youre using world pvp as your basis you will never be taken seriously. ANYONE WITH A 50 ILVL DISADVANTAGE WILL LOSE. You just compared a fresh 90 to full tot gear good job man. As if your argument couldnt get any worse. From a defensive stand point gear doesnt matter everyone has the same base resil and only gem for more. Offensively the person in pvp gear will have more pvp poer but blizzard made that useless in the same xpac they added it. Your whole post here had nothing to do with racials giving an unfair advantage. it was about pve vs pvp gearing.
    Why read words when we can kill stuff the words tell us about?
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  17. #217
    Stood in the Fire Bombino's Avatar
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    Sorry but even if the racials are not completely perfect, Do you realize how many thousands and thousands $$$ players altogether have spent on faction changing/race changing specifically based on how they are.

    You realize that making big nerfs or any significant changes to it is throwing people's money (a lot of it) in the trash.

  18. #218
    Do you realize how many thousands and thousands $$$ players altogether have spent on faction changing/race changing specifically based on how they are.
    If you read the end of my post you would have seen that this is the conclusion I draw.

  19. #219
    Mechagnome Razecog's Avatar
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    If they remove racials they'll lose the income from race change so it's not gonna happen.
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  20. #220
    Currently the racials are causing a huge exodus of high-end raiding guilds to Horde. The Alliance raiding community is bleeding players by the day. Almost all of the competitive raiding guilds have switched to Horde with a very few exceptions like Midwinter, who only stay Alliance out of stubbornness.

    If Blizzard wishes to maintain a semblance of balance in the current raiding scene, they either need to nerf the current Horde racials or buff the Alliance ones.

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