View Poll Results: Should LFD ever been implemented?

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  • Yes

    417 72.27%
  • No

    160 27.73%
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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    A lack of LFD killed SWTOR.
    Yes I am sure the reason why swtor didn't make it is the lack of lfd. Nevermind the mulitude of other major aspects that were lacking.
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  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Eats Compost View Post
    And that's the core of the issue. It's reward-driven. That needs to change and a focus on entertainment value from content, rather than their reward payoffs, needs to come in. Reward-driven content that is also accessible enough to be completed quickly won't keep people playing an MMO forever. Even trivial things like pet battles have a better focus on longevity and fun value than a lot of the game's major content, which should raise a red flag for Blizzard.

    The journey should be more important than the destination, and that just doesn't show up in the game's design.
    How can Blizzard influence that though? It's in the heads of players.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  3. #363
    It wasn't a LFG tool that killed community in casual PvE, it was multiple realm selection pools.
    One cannot simply quit wow his way into Mordor.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfury View Post
    It wasn't a LFG tool that killed community in casual PvE, it was multiple realm selection pools.
    True. Can we say lfg in this current form seriously damaged server communities?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    apparently the cost of freedom, is freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I'm not a war monger.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    And you dear sir, is rehashing the same old arguement. What you are advocating is that people should manually find group in trade chat like before. What you refuse to listen is that is not an option for some people. For you, this is their problem. If they cannot find group, too bad, no dungeons for them. For people like you, who have no trouble with finding people and friends, it works for well for you.

    As it has been mentioned by many people, spamming trade chat for over an hours to find people for one dungeon is not something they want to do. Again this is their experience. Yours is very different because you have no trouble making new friends in tradechat in minutes.
    I was not "making friends in tradechat in minutes", but I managed to find people to play a dungeon with. Some of them then would be pleasant enough for me to remember them, other unpleasant enough for me to remember them too. Seems pretty much the basis of a (supposedly) community-based game.
    I feel that in the team-based part of a MMO, being able to find and function in a team should be the default requirement, instead of making the entire team irrelevant and replaceable by what are, for all instances and purpose, bots.
    The social aspect in dungeon runs? Sure there were exchange pleasanturies. But once the dungeons run was over, people went their seperate ways. Adding people to friends list? Only if you happen to be a tank or healer. This is not making friends in my opinion, it is simply adding people of value to your list. Again, your experience differs. You make friends easily in your dungeons. That is your experience.
    It's not just "my" experience if we consider the many descriptions of many people from this time. Also, it's not "becoming friends" with someone after ten minutes. It's simply noticing that such person manage to write correctly, manage to not be an ass, and seems to be pleasant all around. You register his/her name somewhere in your brain. S/he remembers yours.
    Maybe sometimes you see the same person looking for someone, or s/he sees you doing the same. And you play again.
    And if you've fun together, you may end up getting a postulation for your guild - about 75 % of people we recruited was because of this very system.
    Some people prefer to make friends in guilds. That is their choice. That is their style. You want to make friends in dungeons or tradechat, that is your choice. I personally do not socialize with random people I meet on the train or buses. I do that with peole I meet regularly, like in my guild.
    Yeah, and as said above, encountering new people was THE main way to find a guild in-game.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    People who are not willing to take the less efficient path and willingly take another path that's quicker should not be complaining about it. It's hypocritical to complain about LFD/LFR while continuing to use it when there is a clear alternative not to do so. If the social aspect of the game is so valuable then they should do everything they can to enhance that at the expense of efficiency. Otherwise, it makes all of this just so much meaningless hot air.
    Again, the fun of overcoming a challenge is that it's required.
    If it's not required, it's not "overcoming a challenge", it's "making your life more difficult on purpose", which is the OPPOSITE of what makes overcoming a challenge fun.

    It seems such a simple concept is completely impossible to understand for many people.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    How can Blizzard influence that though? It's in the heads of players.
    Good question.
    They can indeed. I remember reading a blue post off someone, gc or zarhym I don't know can't remember.
    He was surprised that what most gamers focus on its efficiency. I thought about it for a while and it's true.
    Even in the earlier days you would do all you could to maximise efficiency when levelling. Picking up all quests before entering a dungeon? Grabbing all quests in a hub to avoid going back twice?
    It's true. We gamers like efficiency. We like hearing the ding.
    So where does blizzard fit in this? They did a big mistake. Huge mistake. They gave in to the request of more efficiency. And here you go you get aoe fest heroics, dumbed down content, lfd...
    They are the ones that were supposed to keep the balance between fun, challenge, and efficiency, and they did not. They decided to make the game MUCH more efficient; way more than needed.
    This, to me, is how blizzard "influenced" our choices.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  7. #367
    I think LFD killed WoW in a sense, the whole mmo is kind of pointless when you just queue up and wait with no interaction with others. but what really ruined my leveling experience was hierlooms. pulling 10 mobs and facerolling them. getting a small group for hogger? forget that, one shot him, tell me what the point in LFD is when you share no excitement with your group about getting that drop, no one says gz anymore when you got the need roll. you just pass on it cause your hierloom is 10x better than it. i remember spamming deadmines to get my blackened defias set. now its just clear dungeon and quests and move on.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by sylents View Post
    I think LFD killed WoW in a sense, the whole mmo is kind of pointless when you just queue up and wait with no interaction with others. but what really ruined my leveling experience was hierlooms. pulling 10 mobs and facerolling them. getting a small group for hogger? forget that, one shot him, tell me what the point in LFD is when you share no excitement with your group about getting that drop, no one says gz anymore when you got the need roll. you just pass on it cause your hierloom is 10x better than it. i remember spamming deadmines to get my blackened defias set. now its just clear dungeon and quests and move on.
    That's true again and another proof of blizzard giving up to gamers requests. Why should leveling be faster? It's not "how fast can you level an alt" that improves replayability, it's "how interesting is the levelin process".

    Linearity, easier content, minimised travelling time... All these improve the efficiency of the game by a ton but they really do hit other aspects.
    Wow's itemisation was fantastic. Heirlooms (but also bags after random lfg) are great but they got rid of that particular aspect of the game. What for? So you can level alts faster? Would it help the game long term? Not sure.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    I'm not a war monger.

  9. #369
    Epic! twistedsista's Avatar
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    & this is why LFD is so bad.
    just been in a group with 4 other girls/guys to stormstout brewery. someone says hi at the start of the instance & 3 of us say hi back with exception of the tank (doralinn-outland eu), who obviously thought we were all below such words. not another word was said throughout the instance, which was ok & not such a big thing. we clear the place pretty quickly & at the end we all say ty for the run, again with the exception of the tank who proceeds to need on gear lower than what he already has (obviously to vendor) & then leaves the group without a word.
    if this was to happen without LFD, then the tank would quite quickly get a reputation as being quite anti social & indeed a ninja.
    while the rest of the group i would quite happily have grouped with again, the tank i most certainly would not have.
    this is just one example of what goes on on a daily basis & is the cause of LFD being made up of ignorant people who dont even have the manners to say even a simple hi/hey/hello.

  10. #370
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    You think a simple 'hi' is enough to count as social interaction?
    I almost feel stupid for asking people how their day was -_-'

    Even in TBC nobody cared if a tank needed on some loot.
    The only remembrance of a ninja is when people took something from you personally, not if he ninja'd a random person.
    At least, that's how it worked on my server.
    I think we had to many people to remember every single person who stole a low-quality item.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    All these improve the efficiency of the game by a ton but they really do hit other aspects.
    Improving efficiency and "quality of life" improvements make no sense to me. They're something you do in the real life, but a game is as a whole an artificial challenge. You are rewarded for overcoming those challenges, but actually those rewards only have value because of the challenge to obtain them. Why do you need to kill a boss to get a piece of gear? It would be much more efficient just to buy it from a vendor.

  12. #372
    Pandaren Monk ZeroWashu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticj View Post
    The social interaction (at least in leveling) into getting a group was one of my favorite times in WoW, but was removed for convenience when LFD came in. So, if you could travel back in time, and stop LFD from ever being implemented, would you?

    Cleaned up the thread title to stop any more grammar nonsense [ML]
    For those on lower populated servers it was a godsend. for those on higher populated servers nothing forced them to NOT QUEUE as a five man.

    Frankly every argument I see against this system is defeated by one fact, you can always queue a full group
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  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    You think a simple 'hi' is enough to count as social interaction?
    I almost feel stupid for asking people how their day was -_-'

    Even in TBC nobody cared if a tank needed on some loot.
    The only remembrance of a ninja is when people took something from you personally, not if he ninja'd a random person.
    At least, that's how it worked on my server.
    I think we had to many people to remember every single person who stole a low-quality item.
    Sorry what?! What kind of server were you on? Ninjaing in argent dawn-eu would have get you a bad reputation in no time and it did. Same in hellfire and defias brotherhood.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    Improving efficiency and "quality of life" improvements make no sense to me. They're something you do in the real life, but a game is as a whole an artificial challenge. You are rewarded for overcoming those challenges, but actually those rewards only have value because of the challenge to obtain them. Why do you need to kill a boss to get a piece of gear? It would be much more efficient just to buy it from a vendor.
    Exactly. Absolutely true.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWashu View Post
    For those on lower populated servers it was a godsend. for those on higher populated servers nothing forced them to NOT QUEUE as a five man.

    Frankly every argument I see against this system is defeated by one fact, you can always queue a full group
    What an original point. Pretty sure it wasn't countered 18 times in the thread so far.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    apparently the cost of freedom, is freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I'm not a war monger.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    Improving efficiency and "quality of life" improvements make no sense to me. They're something you do in the real life, but a game is as a whole an artificial challenge. You are rewarded for overcoming those challenges, but actually those rewards only have value because of the challenge to obtain them. Why do you need to kill a boss to get a piece of gear? It would be much more efficient just to buy it from a vendor.
    Loitering in Ironforge/Shattrath/Dalaran/Stormwind/Shrine hoping you can form a pug isn't the kind of challenge that's fun to experience. I suspect you weren't around to sit in IF for a 2 hours+ spamming chat, only to have your group fall apart while you were flying across the continent to the dungeon. That wasn't "social interaction". Terrible nuisance does not mean the same thing as challenge.

    However, there was some accountability. You knew which individuals and which guilds' members not to group with. LFD should have an option where you can prioritize getting people from your own server. That way all the people whining about how rosy their nostalgia is compared to now can wait 3 hours for a group.
    Last edited by Gwiez; 2013-08-08 at 10:24 AM.

  15. #375
    Stood in the Fire Divine Path's Avatar
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    I voted YES.

    5-man dungeons (as well as Quests) form the backbone of the World Of Warcraft. There needed to be a method to make grouping for dungeons easier and I believe LFD has been an extremely worthy addition to the game. It really added depth to the PVE elements of WoW.

    I don't get these "it sucks for PVP game play" or "it takes world exploration out of WOW" arguments. There are so many options for PVP already - Battlegrounds, Arena, dedicated PVP areas etc., and exploration is done through quests, which pretty much everyone does at least a few of.

    I would go as far as saying that LFD is one of the best features to have been implemented, as well as Dual-Spec (IMO).
    "Come, Stormrage, and I will show you what happens to those that betray the lord of the Legion!" — Mannoroth.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwiez View Post
    Loitering in Ironforge/Shattrath/Dalaran/Stormwind/Shrine hoping you can form a pug isn't the kind of challenge that's fun to experience. I suspect you weren't around to sit in IF for a 2 hours+ spamming chat, only to have your group fall apart while you were flying across the continent to the dungeon. That wasn't "social interaction". Terrible nuisance does not mean the same thing as challenge.

    However, there was some accountability. You knew which individuals and which guilds' members not to group with. LFD should have an option where you can prioritize getting people from your own server. That way all the people whining about how rosy their nostalgia is compared to now can wait 3 hours for a group.
    Can you please exaggerate more when you're trying to get a point across? 2+ hours isn't bad enough. 4+ hours would have been better. I mean if you're making stuff up or applying your experience of the game as a social awkward person you might as well go the extra mile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Path View Post
    I voted YES.

    5-man dungeons (as well as Quests) form the backbone of the World Of Warcraft. There needed to be a method to make grouping for dungeons easier and I believe LFD has been an extremely worthy addition to the game. It really added depth to the PVE elements of WoW.

    I don't get these "it sucks for PVP game play" or "it takes world exploration out of WOW" arguments. There are so many options for PVP already - Battlegrounds, Arena, dedicated PVP areas etc., and exploration is done through quests, which pretty much everyone does at least a few of.

    I would go as far as saying that LFD is one of the best features to have been implemented, as well as Dual-Spec (IMO).
    Well saying that LFD added anything apart from efficiency is bad, but saying it added "depth to pve" is actually shocking. Lfd itsef is a tool, even helpful if properly managed, but lfd as we have it now if anything took away "depth" from pve and replaced it with "quality of life".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I'm not a war monger.

  17. #377
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Sorry what?! What kind of server were you on? Ninjaing in argent dawn-eu would have get you a bad reputation in no time and it did. Same in hellfire and defias brotherhood.
    Apparently a server with more than 50 people on it.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    Improving efficiency and "quality of life" improvements make no sense to me. They're something you do in the real life, but a game is as a whole an artificial challenge. You are rewarded for overcoming those challenges, but actually those rewards only have value because of the challenge to obtain them.
    Thanks for expressing exactly what I thought but always fail to convey with such elegance.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Apparently a server with more than 50 people on it.
    You mean argent dawn and defias brotherhood are small servers?
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    apparently the cost of freedom, is freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I'm not a war monger.

  20. #380
    Let's see.
    Pros:
    - Lower wait time
    - Other than that, none.
    Cons:
    - Leavers
    - Bad mouthing
    - Lower player skill/experience, looked like everyone who couldnt do dungeons for some reason suddenly started to do it
    - Insurge of non-geared players, who wouldnt be able to get into group before, which you couldnt get rid of.

    For me it's quite clear.

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