View Poll Results: Would it upset you if LFR went away?

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  • Yes

    551 53.86%
  • No

    472 46.14%
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  1. #741
    Field Marshal Fatbeaverlol's Avatar
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    In WOTLK i had the time to raid ALOT. after that i decided i wanted to put more time into school and working out in the gym for better results. Because of this i have less time to play wow this means i cant raid also. LFR is a way for me to get a nice view of the content.

    - I aint hardcore anymore
    - I was

    if LFR is gone i am forced to do pvp if i am bored and i prefer not to do pvp hehe ( btw i stopped AGAIN with wow ) =
    Do you even lift?

  2. #742
    I am Murloc! Pendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrynil View Post
    in order to gear up = lfr. To help getting the best gear available = lfr. Which means you see the whole content in a crappy state before maybe clearing it in normal/hc - and you do it just because its expected to do ones best for guilds.
    Lei'Shen LFR was available a whole month after he was killable on normal mode.
    If you didn't see him by then, your guild just isn't really good.

  3. #743
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Yes and no. Gear is simply a means to an end. That end is overcoming the next challenge the game throws at you. Which in turn rewards gear that helps you overcome the next challenge etc etc...

    It's sort of a symbiotic thing. We raid to get gear. We want the gear so that we can raid. In the end the fun is delivered by beating obstacles and seeing your character get stronger. Being stronger is important because we want to beat more content.
    If that was the case then why does the guildmaster of method have 13 Heroic Deathwing kills under his belt? After all, after beating Heroic Deathwing the first time he had accomplished the goal as you stated it so there was no need for him to get any more gear. Why would he spend an additional 12 weeks in Dragon Soul if not for gear? Since Dragon Soul was the last tier of Cataclysm, that gear was clearly going to be useless after the expansion. Check out his armory if you're skeptical: Method's Guildmaster

    You can only state what is fun for yourself. You can't make assumptions about other people's motivations for raiding. That's why all this noise about LFR taking the fun out of raiding is a personal problem for some people as opposed to the root of all evil that is responsible for all sub loss.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    If you are gearing up in LFR, it's because you are raiding for gear. So the content shouldn't matter. Otherwise you would just wait it out in normal in order to see the content the way you claim. Additionally, Flex Raiding will provide a difficulty in between the two.

    So it really sounds like your points are and will be invalid.
    No its because that is the only easy catch up way now , with gear being better than the former normals. There are no new dungeons which can provide the needed gear to catch up. I know what you are going at - the same shit that you are all saying that if you dont like lfr you shouldn't do it - but no matter what you are trying to say raiders will do what ever they can to get geared in order to help their guilds. There are no place for butthurt lfr hating people who simply wanna skip it and screw over their guild. Flex raiding will not replace lfr but it will make it faster for people to not have to run lfr for gear as it will provide even more gear than we got so far. LFR in itself are just not raiding. It got nothing to do with people not wanting people who do lfr to not see the content. Its about that its not raiding, its unrewarding in any sense, lfr was never the answere in its current form. Gear is/should) a means to get better progression, that does not mean im raiding for gear only. But i do what i can to help my guild the best i can = better gear than what i current got will be a help as better gear will help me in end.

    My points are fully valid, even blizzard have recognized this, its only the lfr fanboys who dont. That i dont think we should have a lfr is however my personal opinion and that is not used as a point, only my experience of how endgame raiding guilds' raiders have to progress now. If lfr was same ilvl as the former normal? sure then i truelly wouldnt have to bother. Now i do, and that sickeness me. What is your argument that you need higher ilvl on new lfrs than the former normals, this i would like to hear please.

    My point as to lfr was needed for people who could play normals in wotlk couldnt do it no more in cata cause the raids got alot harder tuned stays aswell. Why shouldnt they be able to raid when they did so in a whole expansion? Sure they should. LFR being the right replacement for their lost raid, that i dont agree on.

    But you go ahead with your head up your arse, and not argumenting valid points all you like. Atleast i noticed why i can see lfr staying, while you are defending it without thinking of no one but yourself.

  5. #745
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrynil View Post
    No its because that is the only easy catch up way now , with gear being better than the former normals. There are no new dungeons which can provide the needed gear to catch up. I know what you are going at - the same shit that you are all saying that if you dont like lfr you shouldn't do it - but no matter what you are trying to say raiders will do what ever they can to get geared in order to help their guilds.
    You clearly don't know what I'm 'going at'. I don't care what you feel about LFR or Normal or Heroic level raiding. It doesn't matter. What I stated is that people raid for gear, not content, as the primary factor. You quoted me in an attempt to disagree, but then provided the exact types of statements that prove me correct.

    Thus, your point about content is invalid. You and many others raid for gear. Otherwise, you wouldn't choose the most efficient, or the easiest way to get gear. You aren't forced to suffer the travesty of experiencing content in what you feel is a lesser environment, except for the fact that your motivation is gear and gear alone.

    It's more obvious than ever that this is the case now.

    In fact, from the horses mouth(front page blue):
    Real question, what is the intrinsic value of content? Story/Aesthetic difficulty matters less.
    Seeing content and seeing story are both rewards. In WoW, gear just tends to be a more motivating reward for many
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-08-08 at 05:58 PM.
    BAD WOLF

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    And yet, most players prefer them to normal/heroic raids. Weird that most people spurn this "fun" for something that supposedly removed all this "fun", isn't it?
    It seems to prove to me that these people actually didn't like to "raid", and simply wanted to see content and get loot. If they could get the same thing solo, they would do it. So it's nothing about "raiding", and everything about "getting what raiding gave to the participants".

    It's like playing a FPS, saying "I don't like to aim nor to avoid fire", and the designer implementing a mode with auto-aim and auto-dodge.
    So now people who didn't liked the FPS gameplay find it fun. It still makes for a shitty FPS game, because it removed what the FPS was about.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    People just can't wrap their heads around this very easy concept, it seems.
    The same way the other people were never able to wrap their head about the concept of where the fun of overcoming a challenge comes from, and they prefer circle-jerking about "elitists" instead.
    Somehow, being petty bonehead make them feel smarter.
    Last edited by Akka; 2013-08-08 at 06:04 PM.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    Lei'Shen LFR was available a whole month after he was killable on normal mode.
    If you didn't see him by then, your guild just isn't really good.
    I never said my guild was. But does that mean we should be 'forced' to see a shitty form of the raid before? It contains mainly of people who have irls, families and what not to attend to, but they still hate lfr because its just NOT raiding. I joined that casual guild due to having school. LFR is still just NOT raiding, no matter how you deffend it. All those who tells the people who dont like lfr is selfish are actually very selfish themselves.

    Its fine for me you can play the content - that does not hurt my butt, its only when its 'forced' on me. Have lfr give less ilvl than normals, or maybe just less ilvl than upgraded normals and i would be happy and dont care for it at all. Then i could just do it on my alts, fine no worries.

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    It seems to prove to me that these people actually didn't like to "raid", and simply wanted to see content and get loot. If they could get the same thing solo, they would do it. So it's nothing about "raiding", and everything about "getting what raiding gave to the participants".
    So, raiding is fun, if you exclude from your data all people for whom it wasn't fun. Gotcha.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by wrynil View Post
    Have lfr give less ilvl than normals, or maybe just less ilvl than upgraded normals and i would be happy and dont care for it at all. Then i could just do it on my alts, fine no worries.
    LFR does give less ilvl than normals......or did I miss something?

  10. #750
    Blademaster
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    Yes. I would likely never see current raid content if LFR didn't exist. I have absolutely no desire to wait for PUGs to fill, or adhere to a raid schedule. Basically, I enjoy experiencing raid content when its convenient.

  11. #751
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrynil View Post
    But does that mean we should be 'forced' to see a shitty form of the raid before?
    You're not forced, you're just too impatient to actually overcome a challenge in order to get gear and prefer to get gear that overcomes the challenges for you. It's just a fact. Whether because you are in a hardcore competitive guild (highly doubtful) which puts competition over content, or you are a mediocre guild who puts gear over content, the end result is the same.

    You want the gear, you do LFR. 100% your problem and not Blizzard's or other players. It's your priorities, you can sort them out.
    BAD WOLF

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    So, raiding is fun, if you exclude from your data all people for whom it wasn't fun. Gotcha.
    I didn't expect you to bother to understand something that would not suit your views.

    But yeah, any activity is fun for some people, not for other. I find basket boring for example.
    Now if they change the essence of basket ("you can use your feet now, but not your hand, and instead of shooting in a basket you'll shoot between big goalposts, and..."), then I'll start to like it.
    But it'll be football, not basket.
    Last edited by Akka; 2013-08-08 at 06:43 PM.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    I didn't expect you to bother to understand something that would not suit your views.
    No, I understood your flawed and bogus argument perfectly well. You are excluding the individuals who contradict your viewpoint as somehow being not relevant. Of course normal raiding is more fun than LFR, if you arbitrarily exclude those for whom the opposite is the case.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  14. #754
    considering the drop chance of any loot is STUPIDLY low even with rolls, no I LOVE for it to go away. Would stop me feeling like I HAD to do it to get that small upgrade that never drops and ruins the excitment of seeing the new content like it should be seen

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by wrynil View Post
    I never said my guild was. But does that mean we should be 'forced' to see a shitty form of the raid before? It contains mainly of people who have irls, families and what not to attend to, but they still hate lfr because its just NOT raiding. I joined that casual guild due to having school. LFR is still just NOT raiding, no matter how you deffend it. All those who tells the people who dont like lfr is selfish are actually very selfish themselves.
    Oh! Oh! Let me try that! Here we go:

    Your "school" is just not school. Are you getting a PhD in particle physics from MIT? Because otherwise you're just not in school. That's why you might as well drop out. I don't even know why we waste tax dollars on high school programs and state universities. If you're at an ivy league university you're not really in school, and if you're not getting a graduate degree you still have a ways to go before we can say you've truly completed school. Honestly, are you really going to feel good about that high school diploma? I have to tell you that my Master of Science degree took much more effort to obtain and I'm offended that you would even consider taking pride in your meager "accomplishment." Sorry to have to break that news to you...

  16. #756
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, I understood your flawed and bogus argument perfectly well. You are excluding the individuals who contradict your viewpoint as somehow being not relevant. Of course normal raiding is more fun than LFR, if you arbitrarily exclude those for whom the opposite is the case.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    can you honestly say that any guild that runs ONLY lfr as a guild activity can seriously post their "progress" in a group setting and not be laughed off that channel?





    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    can you honestly say that any guild that runs ONLY lfr as a guild activity can seriously post their "progress" in a group setting and not be laughed off that channel?
    Your question there appears to be entirely irrelevant to the point being discussed (whether LFR is more or less fun than normal/heroic modes). Is there a reason you are injecting irrelevant noise into this debate?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by dercaderca View Post
    Oh, the irony.
    Yes, indeed, because LFR isn't something that was spawned by whining and crying. Instead it's the biggest thing to cause whining and crying since LFD was added, all from wannabe hardcores who base their self-worth on their perception of status in a video game. They can't stand the idea people can see 'their' content without 'their permission' and so want it taken away because somehow their sub dollars are magically worth more than other players'.

    And the best part? LFR IS GOING NOWHERE. IT IS HERE AND WILL ALWAYS BE HERE AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, I understood your flawed and bogus argument perfectly well. You are excluding the individuals who contradict your viewpoint as somehow being not relevant. Of course normal raiding is more fun than LFR, if you arbitrarily exclude those for whom the opposite is the case.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
    My argument is not flawed, and your "no true scotsman" retort only prove your complete lack of good faith.
    You really need to be utterly dishonest to contest that the essence of raiding is a team-based effort to overcome challenge, and that both these elements are essentially absent in all but form from LFG.

    But then, I've never seen you be intellectually honest, so I'm hardly surprised. Purposedly ignoring the examples illustrating the point made in order to twist it into a strawman and ignore the concept illustrated, is rather revealing of your way to "debate".
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    all from wannabe hardcores who base their self-worth on their perception of status in a video game. They can't stand the idea people can see 'their' content without 'their permission' and so want it taken away because somehow their sub dollars are magically worth more than other players'.
    Moar circle-jerking please.
    Parroting these kind of mindless clichés only serve to speak alot of you instead of the persons you designate.
    Last edited by Akka; 2013-08-08 at 07:27 PM.

  20. #760
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Your question there appears to be entirely irrelevant to the point being discussed (whether LFR is more or less fun than normal/heroic modes). Is there a reason you are injecting irrelevant noise into this debate?
    to illicit exactly that hypocritical response from you, and I quote "You are excluding the individuals who contradict your viewpoint as somehow being not relevant."





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