Why I likely won't return to the game...

[gutnbrg]

blizzard killing off 25man raids = homogenization....had to make every class bring every buff to a 10man raid bc there were less classes in raid to work with.

[ablib]

Still though, the classes are absurdly different and I'll never understand why people say they're all the same. Let me know how your melee Mage or caster Warrior work out, oh right, they won't, because the classes are *nothing* like each other.

You're comparing a melee class to a ranged one? You're supposed to ask these questions:

Which classes have a silence or interrupt?
Which classes have a gap closer?
Which classes can heal themselves?
Which classes have an ability to reduce damage?
Which classes have a cooldown that increases damage?
Which classes can dispel something?
Which classes have a slow, snare, root or stun?

I'm sure there's more, but you get the drift.

The answer to these questions is almost all classes. This is why some people say the classes feel the same.

[Zer00z]

The answer to these questions is almost all classes. This is why some people say the classes feel the same.

This is more what I was getting at. You used to pick a class because you liked how it did X, or Y, or Z. Now, outside of aesthetics and lore, many classes do similar abilities or have equivalents. This makes it very easy to switch when something goes foul with your current class, boring, and makes it hard to decide on a "main" (mostly because I get the impression almost NO ONE has a main anymore... just classes they bounce between)

[NickCageFanatic]

The OP is correct in most of what is explained however that should all be taken with a grain of salt.

Just because someone plays the FotM doesn't mean they always win. I've seen some really bad hunters, mages, and locks in my time playing the game so the class chosen =/= success.
The class chosen along with the skill to play that class will determine your success (and that is a fact).
No one is going to get 2200+ rating without playing comps that work well together, it's just how the game works.
This is why class homogenization to an extent is needed. Blizzard is striving for people to bring the player not the class. The game is infinitely better now than it was back in Wrath and everything prior to it. Yes to some degree you need certain classes to be successful but its not as needed today as it was back then. (And that's a DAMN FACT)

Also, 1v1 isn't balanced nor will it ever be balanced, Blizzard has also given up on 2v2 balance. Personally I think Blizzard will soon give up on 3v3 balance as well, the elimination of Arena teams in 5.4 is a blanket to cover that up quite well.

If a 100% skill based PvP game is what you are looking for, any sort of MMO is not the game for you plain and simple. You are better off playing Barebones Call of Duty or better yet Counter Strike.

[Rucati]

You're comparing a melee class to a ranged one? You're supposed to ask these questions:

Which classes have a silence or interrupt?
Which classes have a gap closer?
Which classes can heal themselves?
Which classes have an ability to reduce damage?
Which classes have a cooldown that increases damage?
Which classes can dispel something?
Which classes have a slow, snare, root or stun.

The answer to these questions is almost all classes. This is why some people say the classes feel the same.

You're right. Because those are all incredibly important for PvP balance. Take a Warrior, remove their gap closer, you'll *never* see a Warrior in PvP again. Take Rogues, remove their slows, they'll *never* be seen again. Take any class, remove one or two of those things, and they'll basically be useless. There's a reason that all the classes have similar skills, it's because they're needed.

Regardless, just because a class has similar skills I don't see why that matters, they play entirely different. I can go from my Warrior to my Mage to my Windwalker Monk to my Disc Priest to my Resto Druid and have 4 entirely different playstyles. Even Warrior to Windwalker Monk is a massive difference, and they're both melee DPS. I couldn't care less if every class has the exact same type of skills, as long as they play different, and every class is still very different.

[Zer00z]

If a 100% skill based PvP game is what you are looking for, any sort of MMO is not the game for you plain and simple. You are better off playing Barebones Call of Duty or better yet Counter Strike.

But I'm not. I'm looking for a PvP focused game where I can grow attached to my character, machine, vehicle, or whatever else (and community.. Remember THAT?)

WoW used to have that. I used to enjoy the strategy and tactics as well as the individual sense of accomplishment on the class you chose. It was truly YOUR class, not a class that is X, Y, or Z because the patch did A, B, and C. Everything now seems to be about getting things done as soon as possible in the fastest way possible. The game almost promotes hyper efficiency (bouncing between characters and specs) and burst at this point.

Going further back to vanilla, Paladins used to take FOREVER to level. The joke with priests before shadowform was that their best ability was their wand. Yet people still played them, they were *gasp* POPULAR even. It defined the class. It made it unique. Now??? Not so much.

- - - Updated - - -

You're right. Because those are all incredibly important for PvP balance. Take a Warrior, remove their gap closer, you'll *never* see a Warrior in PvP again. Take Rogues, remove their slows, they'll *never* be seen again. Take any class, remove one or two of those things, and they'll basically be useless. There's a reason that all the classes have similar skills, it's because they're needed.

But you just named the abilities those specific classes have used to define themselves since the beginning of time.

I'd say it's more like:
Take a druid, remove the teleport/jump/disengange, you *used* to see them do fine
Take a hunter, remove the invulnerability, you *used* to see them do fine

[NickCageFanatic]

But I'm not. I'm looking for a PvP focused game where I can grow attached to my character, machine, vehicle, or whatever else (and community.. Remember THAT?)

WoW used to have that. I used to enjoy the strategy and tactics as well as the individual sense of accomplishment on the class you chose. It was truly YOUR class, not a class that is X, Y, or Z because the patch did A, B, and C. Everything now seems to be about getting things done as soon as possible in the fastest way possible. The game almost promotes hyper efficiency (bouncing between characters and specs) and burst at this point.

Imo, at least play 5.4, with the changes to PvP trinkets I think you'll find that herp derp burst to at least be more manageable. I would also stay away from third party websites that provide guides on how to be like everyone else because someone spent hours doing math to prove that X set up is the best.

Look for counters to burst, if it is not in Damage Mitigation CDs than it exists in CC. If you cannot do it solo find people to run pvp with and they will provide what you are looking for.

WoW is a game where strats are key to winning, but not in a 1v1 scenario you need a team.

[Deleted]

Like some have said, There should be, only 1 thread for people leaving. And why is this even in PvP thread. At most it should be under off topic, or genereld, since yes he talks about what is wrong with pvp, but with just the title being like this.

[theredviola]

I think we need to just have one thread dedicated for all of the people who feel the urge to make a thread when they quit.

That's not a bad idea seeing as how Blizz reps will occasionally visit WoW fan sites and it would make it easier for them to see feed back.

Just saying.

[cococabana]

Because 80% of people were not the cookie cutter build and the other 20% were made fun of. On a side note what awsome specs were you coming up with taht the rest of us were not using? Seriously can anyone tell me some random off the wall build that even came close to the cookie cutter specs?

Even the illusion of choice is preferable to no choice. I "could" use another talent configuration if I so desired, even if I never did. I love whoppers. 99% of the time when I buy candy from the store, I buy whoppers. I would still be upset if the store started selling only whoppers. Even if I choose the same thing every time, at least it was my decision.

What really gets me about the talent changes though isn't really the lack of choices. It was the removal of the opportunity to fail. Blizzards intent with the talent trees is that you can choose whatever you want, even pick at random, and it will have no significant impact on your performance in the game. Some people like that. I don't. It was just one of many points of failure blizzard removed from the game, and as a result, to me the successes were cheapened by a lack of chances to fail.

[Hand Banana]

You're comparing a melee class to a ranged one? You're supposed to ask these questions:

Which classes have a silence or interrupt?
Which classes have a gap closer?
Which classes can heal themselves?
Which classes have an ability to reduce damage?
Which classes have a cooldown that increases damage?
Which classes can dispel something?
Which classes have a slow, snare, root or stun?

I'm sure there's more, but you get the drift.

The answer to these questions is almost all classes. This is why some people say the classes feel the same.

Its not like this is new. Everyone keeps talking about TBC but its still the same.
Everyone who had a silence or interrupt then has one now (except ferals).
Everyone who had a gap closer then has one now (except ferals lol). Everyone who could heal themselves then can do that now (except rogues).
Everyone who has defensive cds then has them now, just maybe a few more.
Damage cds have gone through the roof, but blame pve for that, plus most people had offensive cds back then too, just not so many.
Less people can dispel now than before, look at spriests and rets.
A few new people were given slows when the don't need it, namely ferals and rets, but everyone still has slows and roots like always. Stuns have gone through the roof thats true.

[Sauronxyz]

By far, the worst thing about pvp now is the ridiculous amount of cc. There are times when I literally can't put down a single attack cause I'm getting cc'd to death. Just stupid. I really think that all cc should be just a 1 sec long interuption on your ability to fight. 8secs, 3 secs, 3secs, 3,secs and dead....fuck that.

[Nicola]

Lets stop with the "I don't care"-posts, minor spam posts or whatever useless stuff you want to post. If you have nothing constructive to say, it's better you don't say anything at all.

Edit: Lets keep the focus on what's wrong with the game, not on the fact that the OP will likely quit the game, that's just side information.

[Rucati]

But you just named the abilities those specific classes have used to define themselves since the beginning of time.

I'd say it's more like:
Take a druid, remove the teleport/jump/disengange, you *used* to see them do fine
Take a hunter, remove the invulnerability, you *used* to see them do fine

I can't figure out if you know the game has changed in the past 5 years or not...

You're right, back in TBC Druids didn't need a jump ability, but the game is totally different. It's entirely unrealistic to expect the game to not evolve, while other classes get new abilities Druids needed a way to get away for a while, hence the leap skill.

And if you're saying TBC was good, Hunters were entirely irrelevant. They were awful. Terrible. There were none. So no, you didn't "used" to see them do fine in TBC, they were garbage in arenas the first four seasons, so they got new skills to help them compete.

They don't just randomly add skills to classes, they add skills that will help fix problems classes have. Hunters had no survivability, so they fixed that. Druids were in decent shape, but other classes got skills that stopped Druids from kiting like they used to, so Druids were given something to help fix that. Isn't terribly difficult to understand and figure out.

[Rabka Uhalla]

You won't be missed. Can I have your stuff?

Infracted

[Woodgela]

@ OP

You hit the nail on the head with a major part of whats wrong with the game. Equalization across the board is a FKED up thing. The signs were ominous when alliance got shamans and horde got pallies. Why people feel the need to make 2 sides completely equal is beyond me. How bland and monotonous do you want things to be?? The same thing applies to life. People try to equalize everyone eg males v females. The fact of the matter is we are NOT all fking equal. People excel in different areas and have different strengths and weakness's. The sooner people realize this the better. For some reason people struggle to accept that they are weaker in some areas and so they cry and whinge and kick up a fuss and start a trend. That's what happens in life and that's what happened in game. A few fuckwits that cant handle a bit of indifference ruin it for everyone.

[Lap]

Classes no longer feel special or have signature abilities. Sure, warlocks have green fire and druids shapeshift but everyone seems to have a VERY similar counter or cooldown to one another.

There are NO counters or balances in the game. Everything is generally similar in terms of ability, utility, output, etc (See: Homogenization). Previously mages countered melee, warlocks countered mages, rogues countered clothies, etc. It was just accepted and created a draw for a player towards a specific class.

So are there counters? or

[Bigbamboozal]

You know OP I get what you are saying, and I too miss some of the wacky things I used to be able to do with specs, however, I also find the mechanics to be quite good with most classes now. I miss lots of stuff, but I don't miss rebuffing every few minutes and re-sealing every judgement, I don't miss how simplistic the fights were, I don't miss the grind.
And I am sorry but it's not a very unique view. I played from the get go. Really, most of the guys from back then just plain old grew up, and got busy in life, or burnt out. Also, you really did NOT take the age of the game into the equation which is leaving out half of the story...sort of seems bias.
It's cool, lots of games in the sea....as well as life right outside your apartment door
Cheers, take care.

[Zer00z]

So are there counters? or

There are counters to abilities with similar abilities. There are not counters to many classes or specializations as there were before.

[MrSerious]

I really like this mod Niberion, has zero tolerance. More like him would be nice, to many people are quick to say something negative when the guy just wants to post his opinion about the current state of pvp and why he feels like it has turn him off the game. Sure there are lots of these posts but they can just as easily be ignored if you don't like them.