Help With General Raid Performance

[Deleted]

I've had a quick look at the monk everything seems fine there; he could make better use of Expel Harm though as a combo point builder as someone has already pointed out. I use this as soon as it's available. I don't know enough about the other classes that are healing to know what's going on there though unfortunately. Note: I'm only looking at Megaera since that's where you're struggling with. Your monk probably will not find time to fistweave here so don't call him out on it over that. He could probably fistweave on the first three bosses pretty comfortably to give the damage on mobs that little bit extra push - probably even Tortos as well.

The only reason that I mentioned fistweaving, was the fact that he hadn't actually used it at all for the night. Even though he was mostly correct in not using it on magaera, he should be aware that it exists.

Also the OP said that they were having a shit night. This kind of makes me believe that they are well past Magaera, and don't really need tips for it.

[Deja Thoris]

1.) Your other healers are, frankly and no offense, shit.

2.) It's normal.

Pretty much besides the slow speed, the main thing is your players...are low caliber.

When you feel compelled to say "no offense" in a sentence you can be guaranteed offense will be taken.


Frankly and no offense, you come across as a complete dick with no people skills.
(See what I did there?) :P

[Nobleshield]

That tells me your healers are either 1.) Not confident in their ability to play their class or 2.) Unwilling to challenge themselves to improve. Both are worrying.

I would agree with that assessment; I think we've 3-healed everything since Firelands, and usually going to 2 has never been an option on the table at all. Since I'm not the raid leader though I can't make that call and say that we should 2-heal, and whenever I bring it up the answer is something along the lines of "Why bother? We know we can down it with 3" and everyone would rather clear what we normally do than change things up. Same goes for solo tanking many bosses (I only JUST was allowed to solo tank Horridon).

[Deja Thoris]

I would agree with that assessment; I think we've 3-healed everything since Firelands, and usually going to 2 has never been an option on the table at all. Since I'm not the raid leader though I can't make that call and say that we should 2-heal, and whenever I bring it up the answer is something along the lines of "Why bother? We know we can down it with 3" and everyone would rather clear what we normally do than change things up. Same goes for solo tanking many bosses (I only JUST was allowed to solo tank Horridon).

Why bother?

It makes your healers better. They can't idle at 70% capacity knowing someone else is there to take up the slack. They get to learn how to improve throughput and cycle cooldowns intelligently. It also encourages your non-heals to play better, standing in bad will kill you. Sure you might wipe a time or two because of it but your dps will learn personal responsibility and what their own defensives are for. It may not matter too much in normal progress but you will be starting heroics soon where it certainly does matter.

With this in mind some fights are easier to 2 heal because it makes dps checks easier (horridon) or it will allow less dangerous phases (jin'rokh / durumu).

I'm a big fan of 2 healing unless the healing requirement is too high for 2. (megaera hc on progress for example)

[Waroc]

You have already 3 hunters... Really... How you plan to gear 4 hunters in total? ^^ Specially if they all are along on the same run.

It really helps if you have a healer with competent DPS OS or you just swap a healer for DPS if needed. But IMHO, if you get away with 3 healing bosses, continue as you are. We got away 3 healing, 2 tanking all the normal ToT bosses (We are 2 healing all normal bosses and most of our HC bosses we are 2 healing as well, either we have to, or we can get away with it). And trust me, when you go from 3 healers to 2 healers, the the damage your 2 healers will have to deal with could knock them off their feet at start. If you 2 heal, your healers have to be on top of their game and having off-healing from DPS will help as well (seeing as you don't have that decent setup, it will be hard for you to off-heal)

By no means is it an ideal group. A little diversity wouldn't hurt, but it is a pretty casual group. It hasn't been an issue yet.

- - - Updated - - -

He's ranking as a healer because

1.) Your other healers are, frankly and no offense, shit.

2.) It's normal.

Pretty much besides the slow speed, the main thing is your players...are low caliber.

I agree with with #1. You didn't need the no offense part - candid feedback is sometimes the best way to fix issues.

The healing ranking explanations that have been fleshed out are something I agree with. It's not something I'm obsessed over, but I am trying to objectively look at contributions and distributions - ie. the point(s) that Karlzone brought up (Shaman heal spell priority, no Priest Spirit Shell usage). That's what I'm after - where can these players improve?

Telling me they are under-performing is not news.

[Inthislzon]

The healing ranking explanations that have been fleshed out are something I agree with. It's not something I'm obsessed over, but I am trying to objectively look at contributions and distributions - ie. the point(s) that Karlzone brought up (Shaman heal spell priority, no Priest Spirit Shell usage). That's what I'm after - where can these players improve?

Telling me they are under-performing is not news.

Every single rotation, either as DPS or as tank can be summarized as "keep whatever buffs/debuffs you can at all times, cast your signature on CD, when both are ok use your filler". Substitute "cast your filler" for "get and use your secondary resource", as that's the "filler" for classes with 2 resources and you get more than enough DPS to clear 6-7 heroics easily.

Have them compare their performance (using http://raidbots.com/comparebot/) to a random top100+ parse for their spec, looking at things like buff/debuff uptimes and casts/min of signature spells, and, most importantly, DAMAGE DISTRIBUTION (as in "who did they hit). If the parse they are comparing to only tunneled horridon for the entire boss, to give an example, there's nothing to learn from there.

Then get them to understand that the difference is not only gear-related, as ~20 ilvl won't double or triple your damage and your problem will (hopefully) resolve itself.

[Deleted]

I just checked your druid tank's log, even though he seemed fine on damage/healing done.

For all of your kills (even that of Durumu the week before) I notice a very disturbing lack of Savage Defense uptime. This reduces his survivability by a TON. Also on many of the logs (durumu and primordius for example), he wasn't using maul enough (75 procs, 2 uses). Looking at his armory he seems to be going for a crit build. This would be more than viable if he would actually use the rage that he is gaining. He also uses the talent "Soul of the Forest". He should be going for incarnation and use it as an additional cooldown.

I am sorry but I really don't know much about the other classes in that raid team.

[Waroc]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll pass along what I have and see what we can make happen. We had a better night last night, clearing up through Primordius again. Had different healers though.

I did look at the druid's savage defense uptime last night, and I show ZERO use on Durumu and exactly 1 use on Primordius. That seems nuts for (what looks like) a pretty sick ability.

Here's the log from last night: worldoflogs.com/reports/h5q8rbz8u2kvtm8h/
As always feedback is appreciated - and thanks to all who have contributed, especially Karlzone.

[clevin]

Why bother?

It makes your healers better. They can't idle at 70% capacity knowing someone else is there to take up the slack. They get to learn how to improve throughput and cycle cooldowns intelligently. It also encourages your non-heals to play better, standing in bad will kill you. Sure you might wipe a time or two because of it but your dps will learn personal responsibility and what their own defensives are for. It may not matter too much in normal progress but you will be starting heroics soon where it certainly does matter.

I'd say it *requires* DPS and others to learn personal responsibility and if they don't, people will think the healers fail. Been there and no one calls out DPS for standing in crap it's "what happened healers???".

In a progression oriented, heroic raid this is less of an issue, but for a somewhat casual normal mode raid it might be a lot of stress and some drama for no real advantage. After all, if they're clearing through Primordious now, they're not doing badly in normal mode terms. If they want to force the heals to step up thier game, though, it needs to be really clearly stated that EVERYONE has to step up - no druid tank failing to use SD, no DPS blowing off personal survival CDs, standing in crap, no casters deciding dispells are beneath then or blowing interrupts...

[Theholypally]

First thing is this: if you are comfortable 3 healing, then continue to 3 heal. Theres no need to switch to 2 healing fights if you arent comfortable doing so.

Second thing is, and this is just from a quick glance, is that your monk seems to be doing the majority of the healing on the kills. The priest and shaman seem very low.

But again, from the looks of it the monk is picking up a lot of the slack of the other two healers in regards to effective healing. From a healing standpoint you need to tell the shaman and priest to pick it up.

Honestly, its not your job to babysit people on their own class. Its nice to be knowledgeable but its up to them to want to learn how to play better.

[Deleted]

The only reason that I mentioned fistweaving, was the fact that he hadn't actually used it at all for the night. Even though he was mostly correct in not using it on magaera, he should be aware that it exists.

Also the OP said that they were having a shit night. This kind of makes me believe that they are well past Magaera, and don't really need tips for it.

Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to contradict what you had said, not the case at all (:

Also was just thinking maybe the monk doesn't fistweave because he doesn't feel like he can because of the other healers' ability. Anyways OP, as most people have already pointed out your other two healers do seem a bit problematic. Sorry to hear that you're having trouble lately; hopefully people can pull themselves together.