Question about Lunar vs Solar openers

[splosher]

You do wrath, pot+starfall, inc+ca? That is questionably better, but I do enjoy the initial burst of 2 casts prepull. My pull means I get 1 extra cast whereas your pull means you get the extra damage of a starfire buffed with inc. Heres what Im talking about:

my opener (potbegins) starfall, wrath, wrath, ca+inc, rotation, ca ends, get to lunar, put up 3rd starfall (pot ends)

your opener wrath, (pot begins) starfall, ca+inc, rotation, ca ends, get to lunar, put up 3rd starfall, starfire (pot ends)

I get 1 extra wrath, and 1 wrath with a pot bonus. You get 1 extra starfire with pot bonus.

Would have to calculate it but it would be 2xwrath (4000int) + starfire (inc) - wrath (4000int) - starfire (inc+4000int)

So basically you get 4000 int extra on a starfire (i still get to cast that same starfire, but mine has 4000 int less)and I get a whole extra cast with 4000int on it.

I doubt that theres even a 6 figure difference, but I think my opener does more damage assuming you dont get a lucky ss cast within the 4 seconds that your pot is on where mine isnt. If you get a proc then yours is better, if you dont get a proc then mine is better in bot cases the damage difference is probably less than 100000 damage.

[Aboubacar]

You do wrath, pot+starfall, inc+ca? That is questionably better, but I do enjoy the initial burst of 2 casts prepull. My pull means I get 1 extra cast whereas your pull means you get the extra damage of a starfire buffed with inc. Heres what Im talking about:

my opener (potbegins) starfall, wrath, wrath, ca+inc, rotation, ca ends, get to lunar, put up 3rd starfall (pot ends)

your opener wrath, (pot begins) starfall, ca+inc, rotation, ca ends, get to lunar, put up 3rd starfall, starfire (pot ends)

I get 1 extra wrath, and 1 wrath with a pot bonus. You get 1 extra starfire with pot bonus.

Would have to calculate it but it would be 2xwrath (4000int) + starfire (inc) - wrath (4000int) - starfire (inc+4000int)

So basically you get 4000 int extra on a starfire (i still get to cast that same starfire, but mine has 4000 int less)and I get a whole extra cast with 4000int on it.

I doubt that theres even a 6 figure difference, but I think my opener does more damage assuming you dont get a lucky ss cast within the 4 seconds that your pot is on where mine isnt. If you get a proc then yours is better, if you dont get a proc then mine is better in bot cases the damage difference is probably less than 100000 damage.

yeah don't open with a starsurge or anything... It only hits 5x harder and cd is likely to be reset instantly anyway. pot before starfall?

[splosher]

Wut. Are you brain damaged. Starsurge only resets with dot ticks. You ss after you get both cds up for max damage

[Aboubacar]

Wut. Are you brain damaged. Starsurge only resets with dot ticks. You ss after you get both cds up for max damage

You literally just gave the worst advice I've ever seen on this forum. You shouldn't be casting wrath period. Unless you're opening 75 pre lunar, which isn't the topic of this thread anyway.

[splosher]

You cant comprehend can you. tou start 75 presolar use astral communion on 5 to get to solar and activate ng, then you use pot+starfall, then you cast 2 wraths since it is a travel time spell, then you use cds and start with the rotation. If you cant comprehend then why do you post?

[Aboubacar]

proc solar
starfall
prepot (hint this is 2-3seconds)
starsurge
INC (during the flight of SS) if specced
shroom
CA
zerk here if a troll + trinkets are up
moonfire
starfire/starsurge

stop giving people shoddy advice on the most basic aspects gameplay. why would you pot before starfall? There's no point of 2 wraths.

[Juvencus]

I don't really get whats the point of it.
You waste pot and starfall times, potentially Inc+CA times as well, put pressure on your pull, proc trinkets before your CDs which can potentially lower your overall opener damage as well as putting pressure on your tank just to fire an extra Wrath which is btw the worst damaging spell in our arsenal?

Here's me thinking that a forum is a place to have a conversation and exchange of ideas, not a fighting pit.

[Fountaiin]

You cant comprehend can you. tou start 75 presolar use astral communion on 5 to get to solar and activate ng, then you use pot+starfall, then you cast 2 wraths since it is a travel time spell, then you use cds and start with the rotation. If you cant comprehend then why do you post?

Any fight where you would justify a solar opener, in my opinion, Twins, Magaera, Council, etc., I've been using.

Starfall @ 5
pre-cast starsurge (It almost always resets after my two CA dots)
Pre-pot Incarnation.
Hit CA as your starsurge lands and the count-down is at 0 and CA dot both (every) target.
Detonate shrooms.

The only thing I still question myself on is re-CA dotting on council with 4 seconds left, or doing it early and clipping my dots to take advantage of my trinkets and berserking.

I've had some pretty insane council openers, at the expense of some Incarnation time being lost. I'm not sure yet though.

[Cyberowl]

What is the Solar Opener now?

1. hit solar
2. cast Starsurge
3. Prepot + Starfall
4. Inc + CA + on Use
5. Dot
6. Starfire

or

1. hit Solar
2. Cast Wrath
3. Preport + Starfall
4. Inc + CA
5. Dot
6. Starsurge

Don't know how much the prepull Starsurge is actually worth, considering the Starsurge after pull has 6-7 procs/effects more and if you don't get an instant proc in version 1 you could lose some serious damage.

Also, on which fights are you using the Solar Opener (25 HC) and when do you use it in Combination with FoN?

[Fountaiin]

What is the Solar Opener now?

1. hit solar
2. cast Starsurge
3. Prepot + Starfall
4. Inc + CA + on Use
5. Dot
6. Starfire

or

1. hit Solar
2. Cast Wrath
3. Preport + Starfall
4. Inc + CA
5. Dot
6. Starsurge

Don't know how much the prepull Starsurge is actually worth, considering the Starsurge after pull has 6-7 procs/effects more and if you don't get an instant proc in version 1 you could lose some serious damage.

Also, on which fights are you using the Solar Opener (25 HC) and when do you use it in Combination with FoN?

If you starsurge then starfall you're going to have to wait out the starfall and incarnation gcd before you can start CAing and wasting time on your trinkets. And idk about you but in my 550 ilvl I always get a proc after dotting two targets, even at the dummies non-raid buffed.

[splosher]

Any fight where you would justify a solar opener, in my opinion, Twins, Magaera, Council, etc., I've been using.

Starfall @ 5
pre-cast starsurge (It almost always resets after my two CA dots)
Pre-pot Incarnation.
Hit CA as your starsurge lands and the count-down is at 0 and CA dot both (every) target.
Detonate shrooms.

The only thing I still question myself on is re-CA dotting on council with 4 seconds left, or doing it early and clipping my dots to take advantage of my trinkets and berserking.

I've had some pretty insane council openers, at the expense of some Incarnation time being lost. I'm not sure yet though.

Yes it makes sense on multi target to get rid of the ss early on so that you dont have to worry about it while useing globals to dot. As far as redotting goes, if you want my advice I'd say you only need to redot 3 of them if you focus all your ss into sul since that will extend your dots by 3 second for each crit. I'd prefer not clipping because I like spamming the ss procs with zerking and trinket procs up, and the redotting at 3 seconds. Just my 2 cents, I've looked at your logs before and you have a good head on your shoulders obviously

[Chisato]

Is this opener recommended for heroic lei shen?

1. hit solar
2. cast Starsurge
3. Prepot + Starfall
4. Inc + CA + on Use
5. Dot
6. Starfire

Also, off-topic, but I tested treants on heroic lei shen and they were awful. Are treants recommended or should I stick with incarnation? I'm still pretty new to balance druid and all the guides seem to have conflicting info, which makes optimizing my dps even harder.

[Cyteriz]

lol treants is bis on lei shen hc

[durrtygoodz]

lol treants is bis on lei shen hc

And why is this?

[Chisato]

lol treants is bis on lei shen hc

I posted on the Lei Shen thread so I don't derail this one. If you wouldn't mind, could you please post more info about what makes treants best on H Lei Shen over on this thread? Thanks

[Deleted]

Holy shit xD this thread got offtopic. Anyway to the person asking if it is worth waiting for the last 4 seconds before redotting on council, yes it is. You essentially lose dps if you clip atleast 5 seconds of dot damage and you would have to redot at 9 seconds remaining, meaning at best you can cast 1 starsurge / Starfire between dotting again, huge dps loss. In all cases it is better to wait until just before CA ends to redot (ignore berserking). For those arguing about what the lunar / solar opener is, that wasn't really the purpose of the thread, it was just to see which, on a single target fight, with no mechanics biasing towards either opener, which would be better.