Why, as a landlord, I will never rent to Section 8 tenants

[Ceethemage]

Ive only lived in section 8 housing twice. The place I lived at I was in a Market apartment and when I lost my job at the factory in Michigan they let me live there rent free until I had found another job because of section 8 being there.

The current residence I live in is "technically" government housing but I live in a Market apartment which means I pay market rate for my 3 bedroom loft because I exceed the income for section 8.

[alturic]

There is virtually no present evidence that states that food stamp abuse is a prevalent tendency.

Could it be that there's literally no way to tell, short of asking those on these programs if they are milking the system?

Are you trying to say the 4 people (whole family, mother, daughter, son and other son) who all live separately, all receive food stamps, SSDI and section 8 (one of them a "rent to own", which I think is "illegal", at least in PA) are the minority of "lifers" on the system? As an example, before the business I worked those low-end jobs at 18, shitty factory work. The one son in the above example started working there, still talk/hang out with him so often to this day, quit because he miscounted the pieces in the box and trainer said "can you not count to 100? are you dumb?" and hasn't worked a day in his life since. He has no mental (outside of not knowing how to spell words correctly) or physical disability, nor does the other son (oh btw, he's on all sorts of drugs), nor the sister or mother. They are all perfectly capable of working (quite honestly the only thing they could work) low-end unskilled jobs but yet they don't. There is no reason to. Yes, I know you will say "well if they are on SSDI they have to have SOMETHING wrong with them, but I swear you'll have to take my word for it, there isn't.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, sure there would be a lot more crime/people on the streets, but you can't give these people a "pass" for staying on the system because if we had stricter requirements/re-evaluations of benefits they would get bounced off the system.

Do these government agencies seriously not question how a single mother of 1 child literally doesn't work, doesn't have a husband or other source of income coming in (that she divulges to them, since of course she had a live-in boyfriend) can "afford" to live in a $600/m rental, with no utilities paid by the landlord, has a phone, cable, car, etc?

My above example MUST be a minority example for sure though, right? Do you seriously not believe the stereotype of "escalades and big screen TVs" are not common-place in the welfare world, outside of those who TRULY need(ed) the help?

[IRunSoFarAway]

They all can't be that way, but maybe so.

He lost me at the religious crap at the end.

Agreed. This has nothing to do with it being something being a section 8 tenant though, it has everything to do with the person being disgusting in general. There are people who rent apartments for thousands that are digusting human beings. It makes no difference what their financial status is, a pig is a pig.

[Kujako]

And because of what JP.Morgan Chase is doing to the aluminium futures market I'll never rent to one o' them Wall-street types!

[alturic]

And because of what JP.Morgan Chase is doing to the aluminium futures market I'll never rent to one o' them Wall-street types!

That was a crazy video, and before I watched it I've heard stories of things (driving product from one warehouse to another) like that.

[Sunseeker]

People on welfare and government assistance are SIGNIFICANTLY more likely to be shitty tenants. I'm sorry that this simple common sense fact offends people so much.

Generally speaking, arguments such as these require facts, figures, even personal experiences. Have the vast majority of Section 8 housing people you know trashed their apartments? Are you a landlord who has experienced a lot of people trashing your property who were also on Section 8? Do you have any studies that support the OP's statements?

Sure not all of them will be, and sure there are people who are rich who are scumbags, but in life you HAVE to use generalizations to guide your decision making process.

No you don't. You CAN use generalizations, but are by no means obligated to do so. I personally prefer to use facts and sound reasoning. If a tenant is going to be a bad tenant, then likely they will have a history of being bad tenants. And I certainly am not going to use isolated cases to represent the whole of any group. You're basically suggesting that fear and paranoia are valid lines of reasoning.

[THE Bigzoman]

Generally speaking, arguments such as these require facts, figures, even personal experiences. Have the vast majority of Section 8 housing people you know trashed their apartments? Are you a landlord who has experienced a lot of people trashing your property who were also on Section 8? Do you have any studies that support the OP's statements?


No you don't. You CAN use generalizations, but are by no means obligated to do so. I personally prefer to use facts and sound reasoning. If a tenant is going to be a bad tenant, then likely they will have a history of being bad tenants. And I certainly am not going to use isolated cases to represent the whole of any group. You're basically suggesting that fear and paranoia are valid lines of reasoning.

I'll ask this again.

What if said tenant has no history to base off of?

And, is there even a system in which landlords can track tenant behavior in previous properties?

[Ceethemage]

And because of what JP.Morgan Chase is doing to the aluminium futures market I'll never rent to one o' them Wall-street types!

After them screwing me over so bad that resulted in a law suit I will never ever EVER use chase again for anything.

[flam]

This is what happens when people get comfortable getting free handouts from the government to take care of them. They don't respect what other people have worked hard for, and just expect Uncle Sam to pick up the bill. If that was her hard earned money that bought that house, it would not of been left in that manner.

Some people generally need help, others are abusers of a very broken system. (which do you think this video portrays?)

[TirielWoW]

In New Jersey I'm required to accept Section 8 housing insofar as an existing tenant is concerned, but I'm under no obligation to accept a new tenant who is on section 8, nor would I have any compunction about doing so.

This is a nightmare and every tenant who thinks their landlord is an asshole hopefully realizes that we deal with just as many tenants who make us that way.

As a landlord myself, this video fills me with dread. I've seen some really bad tenants, but nothing like this... and it only reaffirms my decision to never accept section 8 housing... whether or not they pass the background check.

I feel so, so bad for these people.

[THE Bigzoman]

This is what happens when people get comfortable getting free handouts from the government to take care of them. They don't respect what other people have worked hard for, and just expect Uncle Sam to pick up the bill. If that was her hard earned money that bought that house, it would not of been left in that manner.

Some people generally need help, others are abusers of a very broken system. (which do you think this video portrays?)

There is no question that this particular tenant took a good home for granted and wrecked it beyond repair.

A constant question and theme in this thread is that is there ANY reasonable evidence to suggest that section 8 tenants have a higher tendency then other tenants to commit acts similar to this.

And so far, nobody has ponied up any reasonable data suggesting this, and have instead resorted to hasty generalizations and inner prejudices.

Welcome to the club buddy.

[Hurwyn]

Good for you with your meager little power-trip of being a disposable landlord. You're better than they are because why exactly? Oh you're not, you're just as irrelevant and insignificant, if not more so even.

Will you also never live near Germans because Hitler was a meanie?

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This is what happens when people get comfortable getting free handouts from the government to take care of them. They don't respect what other people have worked hard for, and just expect Uncle Sam to pick up the bill. If that was her hard earned money that bought that house, it would not of been left in that manner.

Some people generally need help, others are abusers of a very broken system. (which do you think this video portrays?)

Yeah honestly you've got a male Belf in your sig named Flamboyant. I don't think you're going to find many people here who respect your opinions on anything.

Infracted

[THE Bigzoman]

Good for you with your meager little power-trip of being a disposable landlord.

Will you also never live near Germans because Hitler was a meanie?

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Yeah honestly you've got a male Belf in your sig named Flamboyant. I don't think you're going to find many people here who respect your opinions on anything.

What a horrible comparison

[Sunseeker]

What if said tenant has no history to base off of?

Then you are basing it off the fact that you have NO evidence, good or bad and that no evidence of good is just not going to cut it. That seems reasonable to me. It isn't saying "well you work in retail, and I don't like WalMart so I won't rent to you." That is irrational. It isn't saying "Well, you're black, and this one black guy I knew trashed his place, so I won't rent to you." That is irrational. It's not saying "You're christian/muslim/poor/old/young... so I won't rent to you." That is irrational.

Rental history is a solid fact. You either have a good one, a bad one, or none. If I want to rent to someone who has a good rental history, I will rent to someone with a good rental history. Unfortunately with no rental history, that does not qualify as a good one. Likewise, I will also state these things on the application, ie: must have X year rental history.

And, is there even a system in which landlords can track tenant behavior in previous properties?

Not an official one no. You either list your previous landlords, or you don't. If you don't, well, again back to no rental history. If you do and I can't reach them (number out of service, wrong numbers, etc... not simply "I left a message and they didn't call me back") I smell fish, and will probably not rent to you.

[Tribunal]

I'll ask this again.

What if said tenant has no history to base off of?

And, is there even a system in which landlords can track tenant behavior in previous properties?

Section 8, if anything, gives a tenant at least a semblance of history. It's administered through local housing authorities who vet income (which includes checking financials and sometimes a credit check). And once the tenant has been on the program? Unless they move out of the metro area, their record is right there in black and white. Even if they move, there is some tracking on a national level.

There is no official system. Some local landlord's organizations will run databases, and most applications ask for rental history (though the tenant can try to edit that... with varying degrees of success). A judgement against them or previous eviction MAY pop on their credit or criminal history check, but that depends entirely on where you live and how it was handled (some states require a court order to evict, even if it is just essentially filing the form - others have civil eviction as long as there is a lease, etc).

[Elgand]

As a landlord myself, and after purchasing a property with a marked section 8 history I also try with all of my might to not rent to section 8 residents.

Some have said it is easy to not allow section 8 tenants, but in WI where I live if ANYONE thought you were doing this you would be facing a lawsuit. The Lawsuit requires no out of pocket expense for those who are seeking it, and often results in the landlord losing his ass. The only way to lawfully do what I have done is by requiring a 100$ application fee for credit check and background check. This tends to remove those who need section 8 from the scenario entirely.

Why do I not want to rent to Section 8 tenants? I simply do not have the time for it. Section 8 has laws and regulations in regards to how many people can reside in a home, and what activities can happen. Section 8 tenants of the previous landlord(Who owned our duplex) all completely lost their rent deposits, and upwards of $20,000 worth of damages were inflicted on the residence when eviction was enforced.

The mother of 4, that also allowed 4 others to reside with her, had her children (ages 8-16) take baseball bats to the fridge, oven, countertops, air conditioner, doors, and walls. She was being evicted because her section 8 did NOT allow for 9 tenants in a 3 bedroom home. (Black woman, four children) She paid $8 per month to live there.

Another section 8 tenant destroyed the carpeting with cigarette burns, refused to repaint rooms to white per the lease agreement, broke portions of the oven, windows, etc. (Mixed man, 3 children) This man was the quietest of the 3 tenants. He was evicted due to 6 months without paying his $300 portion of the rent bill.

Another section 8 tenant broke holes in the walls, destroyed carpeting with vomit stains and urine, allowed some sort of black mold to grow at the head of her bed, refused to mow the lawn, trashed one of the two decks, destroyed multiple doorways, etc. (White woman, 1 teenage daughter, 4-5 random strangers living with her at any given time) She was evicted after not paying rent for 8 MONTHS. This rent will never be seen by the landlord.

How do I know this? Because I was in the other half of the duplex as a single man for the duration of their tenancy. I decided to purchase the duplex shortly after getting married, and we have taken care of both sides since then. I assisted the original landlord with repairs, as well as let the landlord know when unacceptable activities were taking place (Parties until 3 AM with vehicles parked in front of the garage blaring loud music and the such).

We have owned the duplex for 4 years now, and have gone through 3 different tenants. I have found that if I give people a good deal (33% less than anything comparable in WI where we live) and tell them in return I only want for them to respect my property, my property has been well taken care of. All tenants have either signed a new lease or left on good terms, being re-imbursed their entire rent deposit.

Why do I feel Section 8 would negatively influence a tenant? Why should you honestly care about a place if you only pay 8$ per month to live there? Mentality goes a long way in regards to attitude and action, and if your mentality is that you didn't pay for it to begin with, often you don't care what happens to it. The only thing that these tenants were responsible for was their water bill, and often they would not pay the ~$40 a month that it cost.

The video in the OP sounds to me like a complacant landlord that should have been far more aware of his own property, but I have my own well defined reasons for not renting to Section 8. At one point I spoke with an owner of a large scale rental agency about Section 8 and where he stood on it. His response was that Section 8 itself is not bad, if you are prepared to do monthly check-ups and enforce every single law that is in place regarding section 8. Luckily he also mentioned that his apartments are now at such a price point that section 8 does not qualify for them, so he no longer has to work with it.

I disagree with the Section 8 housing system on a different level as well. An employee of my families business currently makes $8.50, has a son that she supports entirely alone, and lives using Section 8 housing. She applied for a management job at a new Target store in our area. After getting the job, she gave us 2 week notice and happily started her new job paying $11.50 per hour.

She was informed that her Section 8 housing would be revoked at this income level. That actually amounted to a Net LOSS of income, and would have made her life with her son much harder. Does that make any sense? No governmental system should EVER do something the discourages someones ability to better themselves. She quickly left her job at Target and returned happily to her $8.50 an hour job.

[Veyne]

Those are the people who aren't "down on their luck" and quite frankly, there is a LOT more people who live off the government than who are collecting things simply because they are in a bad spot in their life with losing their job (i.e. temporary assistance like (last I checked) all of these programs were designed to be... temporary) or spouse dying and they just lost a huge chunk of income.

Statistically false. With all forms of Welfare taken into consideration, a vast majority of the recipients are short-term, most of them receiving welfare benefits for less than a year before moving on once their shit's gotten back together for them.

Yes. There are a lot of people who abuse the ever living hell out of these programs.

They are, in fact, a minority.

Funnily enough, most people who receive welfare benefits for these short periods of time are generally unwilling to admit it, due to the negative attention the abusers bring to the recipients.

[Balgazarr]

So someone on section 8 housing is automatically indicative of someone being a bad tenant?

I did a lot of work on section 8 houses for a landlord over a 5 year period, and everytime I would revisit a house I had remodeled before after the section 8 ppl leave the house was always destroyed. They would run up utilities, do damage to house and property, leave trash and other disgusting crap all over the property and almost always used or sold drugs. Thhe guy I worked for would spend 5 to 10k to get the houses back in order.

[Wynnyelle]

I find it disgusting that people are given the opportunity to live in such a nice house and completely trash it like it's nothing. I would feel so privileged to live in such a nice place. I feel really bad for that guy. As for the people bashing the OP, I can understand where you are all coming from. I am sure that not all section 8 tenants are like that, but it's such a huge risk to take, particularly when you are dealing with something that is as valuable as a house. You don't just let anybody live in your house that you put so much work and money into.

[theWocky]

He lost me at the religious crap at the end.

Yes, I agree with this - why was this drivel even in the video?