Thread: 5.4 Enh PVE ?

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  1. #1

    5.4 Enh PVE ?

    What's you guys' opinion on this? will enh shaman be good in 5.4, based on the info we get so far?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by skrhaha View Post
    What's you guys' opinion on this? will enh shaman be good in 5.4, based on the info we get so far?
    Right now, before numbers tuning, very bad. The RPPM change hurts very much. Enhance is one of those classes losing 15% dps through it, while some other classes, which don't stack haste and/or aren't so burst reliant only lose very minor dps (e.g. warriors) or gain dps.

    But for 5.4 so far, the balancing didn't even start. We will have to see if we get compensated and how much we get compensated for losing 15% dps. The amplify trinkets increase the scaling of everyone except agi classes, so we might not be able to scale the same way as non agi users. Fire mages still dominate, they until now didn't get any scaling nerf though they are scaling absurdly good and will be even better with the amplify trinket (which currently is best suited to fire mages).
    Last edited by Klatar; 2013-08-08 at 07:09 PM.

  3. #3
    The amplify damage trinkets got nerfed to the ground it's only 8% now. The cooldown reduction trinkets still procs on the pull since it is ICD we'll still have to take a RPPM trinket though but it's fine shaman cooldowns will be up way more often 2min ascendance, 1.7min fire ele and 1.5min feral spirit. Haste will still be good, in addition to the RPPM trinket and the Metagem we'll have the cloak which also scales with haste.
    Last edited by Khain; 2013-08-09 at 05:41 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    The amplify damage trinkets got nerfed to the ground it's only 8% now. The cooldown reduction trinkets still procs on the pull since it is ICD we'll still have to take a RPPM trinket though but it's fine shaman cooldowns will be up way more often 2min ascendance, 1.7min fire ele and 1.5min feral spirit. Haste will still be good, in addition to the RPPM trinket and the Metagem we'll have the cloak which also scales with haste.
    8% is still better than any other trinket. It's on the same item budget like 2200 haste/mastery, where as amplify gives you over 2k mastery/haste alone - and an additional critical strike damage.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    The amplify damage trinkets got nerfed to the ground it's only 8% now. The cooldown reduction trinkets still procs on the pull since it is ICD we'll still have to take a RPPM trinket though but it's fine shaman cooldowns will be up way more often 2min ascendance, 1.7min fire ele and 1.5min feral spirit. Haste will still be good, in addition to the RPPM trinket and the Metagem we'll have the cloak which also scales with haste.
    The cooldown reduction trinket is bad if you have a warrior or unholy dk in your group, as you desync from Skull Banner and Unholy Frenzy.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangar View Post
    The cooldown reduction trinket is bad if you have a warrior or unholy dk in your group, as you desync from Skull Banner and Unholy Frenzy.
    Wait what? You're telling me you have Unholy Death Knights giving you Unholy Frenzy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    Wait what? You're telling me you have Unholy Death Knights giving you Unholy Frenzy?
    Yeah I'm a little skeptical about that as well.

  8. #8
    Unholy Frenzy is reduced by the trinket for UH DKs, no desync for them.

  9. #9
    You mean you don't get UF/ToT during your opening Ascendance?

  10. #10
    LoL must be really good to have a unholy dk bitch do give you UF, not many would agree with that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    LoL must be really good to have a unholy dk bitch do give you UF, not many would agree with that.
    IT has nothing to do with being a B or anything like that if giving it to an enh shaman gives the group more dps then casting it on him self then its just good game play. You don't play the game to top the meters u play it to kill bosses so higher dps no matter the circumstance is always better

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SamoTray View Post
    IT has nothing to do with being a B or anything like that if giving it to an enh shaman gives the group more dps then casting it on him self then its just good game play. You don't play the game to top the meters u play it to kill bosses so higher dps no matter the circumstance is always better
    Unless you're like racing for world first, US first or something like that. I play DK and I would never give enhance UF it buffs all of the pets in the opener, it totally screws your dps, you gotta be a bitch to do that.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    Unless you're like racing for world first, US first or something like that. I play DK and I would never give enhance UF it buffs all of the pets in the opener, it totally screws your dps, you gotta be a bitch to do that.
    My Fire elemental does 2-300k DPS on a pull for half a minute, plus my Ascendance damage will crush your opening damage. We have an UH DK, and their opening burst, even their pet damage is nowhere near Enhancement this patch. I'd be highly surprised if it actually did net more DPS overall for a DK than Enhancement.

    However, someone commenting that the CDR trinkets are bad because you desync from an external buff of another class that is technically their personal DPS CD seems absurd.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    you gotta be a bitch to do that.
    I don't have anything to contribute to the discussion on the state in 5.4 aside from the RPPM change sucking and hoping for some compensatory buffs when the tuning starts, but the quote above was great hahah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by splinternz View Post
    I don't have anything to contribute to the discussion on the state in 5.4 aside from the RPPM change sucking and hoping for some compensatory buffs when the tuning starts, but the quote above was great hahah.
    Did some raid testing on PTR wasn't bad at all (unless the current ptr build isn't updated with the rppm changes), with new trinkets (agi/mastery proc + assurance of consequence) and t16, easily top dps on single target and aoe fights using EM/PE/haste stacking, also in a full guild group so no bad pugs. Although it was flex and scaled down to 530. I didn't feel we need a buff at all.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Corixa View Post
    Did some raid testing on PTR wasn't bad at all (unless the current ptr build isn't updated with the rppm changes), with new trinkets (agi/mastery proc + assurance of consequence) and t16, easily top dps on single target and aoe fights using EM/PE/haste stacking, also in a full guild group so no bad pugs. Although it was flex and scaled down to 530. I didn't feel we need a buff at all.
    Simcraft doesn't lie as to how much the RPPM change will hit us. Doing Flex in a scaled down raid but with new gear in which we have remarkably strong interactions with the CDR trinket and our set bonuses isn't valid reason to judge how the spec is going to be doing. Do the same flex raid with your current gear, RPPM trinkets and set bonuses and see how much of a difference the changes make, that is what people are talking about, not new shiny gear that break meters and relative understanding. From testing normal and heroic modes of pretty much everything that's been available, the difference is big between using old ToT gear and new SoO gear available from vendors.
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  17. #17
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    yes but you'll only be in your tot gear for a few weeks at most when new tier comes out.. I see what you mean, but dps is never balanced around old tier

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    Simcraft doesn't lie as to how much the RPPM change will hit us. Doing Flex in a scaled down raid but with new gear in which we have remarkably strong interactions with the CDR trinket and our set bonuses isn't valid reason to judge how the spec is going to be doing. Do the same flex raid with your current gear, RPPM trinkets and set bonuses and see how much of a difference the changes make, that is what people are talking about, not new shiny gear that break meters and relative understanding. From testing normal and heroic modes of pretty much everything that's been available, the difference is big between using old ToT gear and new SoO gear available from vendors.
    Why is new gear less relevant than old gear?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    Why is new gear less relevant than old gear?
    It isn't but at the same time it is.

    This reminds me of Diablo when you needed Act 4 gear to get through Act 2. How will you keep up with other classes during the first weeks of heroics (these are the ones that are more important to alot of enhancers) on AE heavy fights if you need all the new trinkets/set bonuses to compete?

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    Why is new gear less relevant than old gear?
    For progress you aren't instantly going to be in your new 4 Set bonus and Therefore it is going to create a disparity In how valuable the new gear is dependent on your luck. Trinkets are even worse given that is one drop and one chance a week. What the biggest issue in this is that RPPM Scales very high with ILVLs. The difference isn't going to be that noticeable at lower gear levels which flex raid is due to the scaling. Rest assured that though I am not just judging the new gear based on the old gear but the nerfs to the old gear will affect the first month at least of progress if not more y would lean towards more give them the gear drop rates and how specific items will affect us and even more so how long this progression cycle might last looking at the length of the raid and the difficulty of some of the bosses.

    With the downgraded item level the two and four set bonuses get increased power because they cover a lot of gaps that enhancement has currently at lower gear levels. I can understand that you may not notice just how bad these nerfs are going to be but at higher gear levels it hits us very very badly which next tier will be made very apparent to people who aren't at 540+, as haste scaling tails off. Whilst GC Stated that we get extra scaling with our trinkets through taking haste is not necessarily true given that if we take haste we are dropping mastery which inherently scales our ability to do damage, and as such haste will become a lot less powerful, sadly.

    TL;DR, Next tier has much better set bonuses than this tier and even more so the nerfs to the trinkets aren't factored in when you're using the much more powerful new trinkets; Of which our strong trinkets may potentially be weaker than the other classes that are currently doing better than us on the PTR
    Last edited by wordup; 2013-08-11 at 05:20 AM.
    Enhancement Shaman | Feral Druid | Windwalker Monk

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