Thread: 5.4 Enh PVE ?

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    Wait what? You're telling me you have Unholy Death Knights giving you Unholy Frenzy?
    I'm not so sure it's that uncommon, we really don't care as much as about individual numbers as group numbers.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rangar View Post
    I'm not so sure it's that uncommon, we really don't care as much as about individual numbers as group numbers.
    So It's almost like a socialist guild. Are from china?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Corixa View Post
    yes but you'll only be in your tot gear for a few weeks at most when new tier comes out.. I see what you mean, but dps is never balanced around old tier
    Yeah but on PTR, there are big skill differences, sometimes due to missing Addons or unrealistical fight lengths.

    The new gear is gonne make us stronger, but everyone else get's the same push or even more. Skill matters a lot.

    You might go Flex, do 300k DPS and be 20% ahead of everyone and think you're the king. Then you go with top 100 raidersn, do 320k dps and are last place, 20% behind the feral.

    Simulations are just showing how big the nerf is. And many bosses will have fight lengths during progression where the -CD trinket is weak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    Unless you're like racing for world first, US first or something like that. I play DK and I would never give enhance UF it buffs all of the pets in the opener, it totally screws your dps, you gotta be a bitch to do that.
    Well you're just carrying about your ego. Enhancement has a lot higher burst DPS with EM+PE.

    http://www.simulationcraft.org/530/Raid_T15H.html#player22

    Enh burst DPS goes up to 932k without UF, Unholy burst is 516k - WITH UF. You see that Enhancers really get easily double the benfit than UH gets.

    But on the other hand, most DKs care only about ego DPS. On Raden progress, our DK was told by the raidlead to give UF to the enhancer - because he benefits a lot more from the initial UF than he does. But it was only the inital UF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    TL;DR, Next tier has much better set bonuses than this tier and even more so the nerfs to the trinkets aren't factored in when you're using the much more powerful new trinkets; Of which our strong trinkets may potentially be weaker than the other classes that are currently doing better than us on the PTR
    Any numbers that our set bonuses are really better? I see the 4p proccing only very few times on single target dps. 2p is just a pretty mathy thing and depends on procc chances. I just can't tell how much of a dps gain it is without simming it.

    I don't accept people telling us that everything is fine because you beat some randoms on PTR.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    I don't accept people telling us that everything is fine because you beat some randoms on PTR.
    They weren't random, i stated that i did it with my guild, not amazing but we're ok. But as i've also stated, I'm unsure how the scaling is skewing the data.

    Maybe you can just go on PTR yourself and test it yourself.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Corixa View Post
    They weren't random, i stated that i did it with my guild, not amazing but we're ok. But as i've also stated, I'm unsure how the scaling is skewing the data.

    Maybe you can just go on PTR yourself and test it yourself.
    I know the math behind it. I know that the new Cd trinket makes you a lot stronger on short fights under 5 minutes, but isn't working well for fights 6-7.5 minutes.

    So far, the RPPM nerfs were hard for us, this is a fact. This is what simms show, this is what happens, when RPPPM procc rates go down from about 1.0 or 1.1 on average to 0.5. Now of course they are doubled because they nerfed the procc by half of the duration.

    But anyways, other speccs got their procc chances nerfed from 0.55 to 0.51, we got nerfed from 1.0 to 0.51. Tis is what happened. It's a nerf, no matter what you tell us.

    And never forget: they didn't adjust things like legendary procc rates, perhaps they nerf the Cd trinket if it's too much of benefit (like they did the amplify). But anyways, unless you can tell me how we're supposed to compensate for losing 10-15% dps via RPPM nerfs, i don't know how to talk with you. There are always guilds where the enhancer is p1 and others where the enhancer is p15, mainly because he plays better than the rest of the raid.

  6. #26
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    You keep mentioned sim shows this and that, here you go, with the latest simcraft available, i wouldn't call it a HUGE nerf (7.5m fight with a 20% variation, using the T15 BIS profile in simcraft). New RPPM changes may or may not have implemented in this build, but Unless you're using another simulator, I dont think you can reference to it.

    http://www.nerdqt.com/simc/T15HPTR_12082013.html

    I would really like to see the math and simulations you keep mentioning about, showing that its a 10-15% nerf.

    Yes, knew and agree it was a nerf but not that huge that we need to cry about it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Corixa View Post
    You keep mentioned sim shows this and that, here you go, with the latest simcraft available, i wouldn't call it a HUGE nerf (7.5m fight with a 20% variation, using the T15 BIS profile in simcraft). New RPPM changes may or may not have implemented in this build, but Unless you're using another simulator, I dont think you can reference to it.

    http://www.nerdqt.com/simc/T15HPTR_12082013.html

    I would really like to see the math and simulations you keep mentioning about, showing that its a 10-15% nerf.

    Yes, knew and agree it was a nerf but not that huge that we need to cry about it.
    That sim is just the RPPM proc-on-the-pull nerf and the fire elemental glyph nerf without reoptimizing the PTR actionlist, so it does things unintelligently like using fire elemental every 2.5 mins instead of trying to sync with EM and berserking. It doesn't include the RPPM haste-scaling nerf.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Corixa View Post
    You keep mentioned sim shows this and that, here you go, with the latest simcraft available, i wouldn't call it a HUGE nerf (7.5m fight with a 20% variation, using the T15 BIS profile in simcraft). New RPPM changes may or may not have implemented in this build, but Unless you're using another simulator, I dont think you can reference to it.

    http://www.nerdqt.com/simc/T15HPTR_12082013.html

    I would really like to see the math and simulations you keep mentioning about, showing that its a 10-15% nerf.

    Yes, knew and agree it was a nerf but not that huge that we need to cry about it.
    As far as I have seen, the most recent RPPM nerfs and changes has shown the following simcraft results:



    This is the only actual post RPPM haste change nerf screen I've seen so it could be inaccurate, but it's also the only thing I've seen anywhere close to showing the effects of the change that is believable. Your sim that was linked is definitely not going to be accurate given a 36% uptime on Juju seems remarkably high given how hard the RPPM nerfs will change procrates. Either that, or very hopeful.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    As far as I have seen, the most recent RPPM nerfs and changes has shown the following simcraft results:



    This is the only actual post RPPM haste change nerf screen I've seen so it could be inaccurate, but it's also the only thing I've seen anywhere close to showing the effects of the change that is believable. Your sim that was linked is definitely not going to be accurate given a 36% uptime on Juju seems remarkably high given how hard the RPPM nerfs will change procrates. Either that, or very hopeful.
    That sim is also out of date since it doesn't take into account the buffs Blizzard gave to the RPPM trinkets in the latest build (50% duration / 2x proc chance / 10s ICD for most of the ones relevant to us).

    The sims I linked in the other thread are current, and have the added bonus of being somewhat reoptimized.

  10. #30
    Welcome to nerfbat Tuesday. SS and LL take a 12-15% dmg reduction, and cut the 4pc T16 proc chance in half. Coupled with the trinket proc changes? The spec is built around cd's now to be able to burst, but they don't want us to burst anymore. /sigh Back to being mediocre again. Thoughts?

  11. #31
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    Now those are some huge nerfs... sure they will compensate it elsewhere later....T16 4pc proc was already pretty low on single target

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Corixa View Post
    T16 4pc proc was already pretty low on single target
    No it wasn´t. In my opinion it was too good and had the nerf coming.

    Wont say anything about those other nerfs, time will tell.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeague View Post
    Welcome to nerfbat Tuesday. SS and LL take a 12-15% dmg reduction, and cut the 4pc T16 proc chance in half. Coupled with the trinket proc changes? The spec is built around cd's now to be able to burst, but they don't want us to burst anymore. /sigh Back to being mediocre again. Thoughts?
    We'll be good for one patch in 6.0 so I'll just putt along until then.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Speks View Post
    No it wasn´t. In my opinion it was too good and had the nerf coming.
    It was ~2.5% against a single target. A bit higher than your average set bonus (~2%), but not cut-in-half-and-also-nerf-the-spell-it-resets-worthy.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    It was ~2.5% against a single target. A bit higher than your average set bonus (~2%), but not cut-in-half-and-also-nerf-the-spell-it-resets-worthy.
    2.5% is lower than many other set bonus. If it's now only 1%, it's a very bad set bonus, probably by far the worst of all classes.

    Added the nerfs to SS and LL and RPPM, enhancement loses right now over 20% dps compared to live. Other will lose nearly nothing.

    Yeah, funny 5.4.

    Mediocre on single target, bad on AOE + melee malus, healing halfed (as support got halved by this). Another patch every dd will be cleaning up the bottom with enhancers. Until they buff us at 5.5.
    Last edited by Klatar; 2013-08-13 at 04:12 PM.

  16. #36
    Here's to hoping the SB/SS/LL nerfs are for pvp only. Waiting for blue clarity over datamined info.

  17. #37
    Thing is, SS in pvp hits for a bit less than a warrior MS with 2 sec longer CD on it. How is it an issue in pvp ? People don't instantly die to 45k SS crits... let alone when it crits (considering our crit rate ins't that high).
    I can see SB being changed especially if they keep the 25% crit chance on EB combined to it but if not, then why is it an issue ?
    It has a long CD and i see bigger crits out there on special abilities on some other classes all day long. I know it's comparing apples to oranges but i'ld like to understand how this is a bigger issue than an icelance spamming mage that does the same dmg if not more ALL the time (considering it crits) every frost nova + stun combo every 30 sec for example ?

    Tbh i feel enhance was always the black sheep since the game came out, they never managed to balance it (BC Wf madness) or to make it attractive. We got a decent and deserved buff for 5.2 but it didn't last long :x !

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLeague View Post
    Here's to hoping the SB/SS/LL nerfs are for pvp only. Waiting for blue clarity over datamined info.
    Well GC comfirmed those changes to also aim at PVE. Which is just ridicilous, because first he told us they were okay if Enhancers performance in 5.3, but now, a 15% dps is justified?

    Basically, this is gamebreaking because we were ahead of some speccs, but none was 15% behind us. I still think that Blizzard simply did't take a look at how much RPPM really hurts Enhancers performance.

  19. #39
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    Due to incredibly poor trinket drops for my raid group (1 Bad Juju drop total) and a glut of Agility users I was never able to get a 2nd RPPM trink to pair with Heroic Renataki (unless I'm wrong about Shado-Pan Assault trink not being RPPM). Yes I have the meta, but my DPS has remained relatively (relative to the other dps in my group) very strong even without a 2nd RPPM trink. Will i be suffering less than other enhancement shaman come 5.4 with the RPPM nerf? Or will this nerf just carry over as I pick up the new weakish trinkets being offered next tier.

    I'm the type of player to just roll with the punches (been playing enhance since TBC) so I'm not overly concerned, but just sort of wondering...was asked by my RL if she can expect me to keep bringing the pain in 5.4.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  20. #40
    what the hell. lava lash and storm strike both nerfed for 10 - 15% ......

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