Social services for baby factories

[Deleted]

It's not a matter of liking their parents or not. Their parents should not expect me to pay for their kids

Then you shouldn't expect to pay for government workers wages either.

[Anodur]

So what about adults who do work full time and still aren't able to support their family? Should we just say fuck 'em despite the fact that they are clearly making an effort to provide?

If they've stopped having children, then they're being responsible. Their fate isn't what I'm interested in discussing (at least not on this thread).

[Deleted]

High birth rates have always been solved by educating women, it's been done very successfully in many other countries. If you want to fix the problem get better schools.

[Venant]

The funny thing is that i'm sure that just about everyone posting on this thread had an ancestor that probably had children under conditions that we would now classify as being 'too poor to have children', and if they had all used your logic none of you would be here today to post on this thread.

[Deleted]

If they've stopped having children, then they're being responsible. Their fate isn't what I'm interested in discussing (at least not on this thread).

But their fate is directly tied into the act. It's bad policy to do something and disregard consequences.

[vindicatorx]

Then you shouldn't expect to pay for government workers wages either.

Not the same thing at all, I am fine with paying taxes to pay government employees, I'm not ok supporting lazy assholes who feel they have a right to survive without putting into the system

[Anodur]

But their fate is directly tied into the act. It's bad policy to do something and disregard consequences.

I see what you're saying, but since having the kids was before the services started, it's not as bad since they're not shooting themselves in the feet while running.

[Deleted]

I see what you're saying, but since having the kids was before the services started, it's not as bad since they're not shooting themselves in the feet while running.

You understand why this system was put in place in the first place right? Post WW2 to improve population growth (iirc) via the incentivisation of having children. These services have been around so long that no child would have been born before the service started.

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Not the same thing at all, I am fine with paying taxes to pay government employees, I'm not ok supporting lazy assholes who feel they have a right to survive without putting into the system

Ahhhh the age old policy of "fuck em'" because you know.... civilized right? Like it or not, they are people and you can't fuck over that child because its parents are morons, you just have to hope that child doesn't grow up to be a fucking moron.

[OzoAndIndi]

It's a tough question really. Such irresponsible adults don't deserve to have their bad choices continuously supported. But a lot of it about the KID though, who is an innocent bystander in it and didn't deserve or ask to be brought into a situation with a parent who isn't providing for them too well.

Honestly, esp with people who just keep going like that, instead of just constant support I think MAYBE that in order to keep it for the time being that there should be mandatory classes and things... workshops, counselors, information centers, etc that will help them get themselves on the right and better path. Set up so that they keep the services while they are active in this, but a program that helps get them to the point that they will lose it later for the reason that they no longer need it. (Edit: And make these programs and whatnot flexible in hours and easily available.. none of this "well it was only these certain days and no transportation when I had time to do it.") Yeah, there would probably be some crying over "taxpayer money" to fund this, but please... it's either that to get people in the right direction or just a constant hand out, so choose.

[Deleted]

If it was up to me, any woman on benefits for 2 years or more in a 5 year period would have doctor administered contraceptives.

[Gothicshark]

NOTE: This isn't a thread to ARGUE or DEBATE. I would just like your guys' opinions and views here. Civility isn't bad... unless you're Garrosh.

I will point out a few things before I start.

Your Poll question:
Should adults who are on welfare be cut off if they continue having lots of kids?

Your Poll Choices:
YES! If they won't help their own situation, I shouldn't be expected to
NO! It's not their fault that they chose to reproduce.
IDK!/other. Please leave comment.

The question though biased has a valid point, should the people support women with more than one child. The answer is simple Yes. We the People of America should support the Weakest members of our society. It has no bearing on whither it is a choice of reproduction or not. Sex happens it happens often, Children happen because of sex. Is it the woman's choice to have sex, not really it is just as much if not more so the Male of our species who decides when sex is going to happen.

I should also point out that the Majority of people who vote Yes on your poll would want Abortion illegal, and not fund Sex education or contraception.

I personally want Americans to have free and easy access to all forms of Child prevention, I also believe we should protect our youngest citizens. So I'm against mid and Late term Abortions, I want free contraception, and the Morning after pill to be made over the counter. I also want all Children to have full medical, full housing, Free Education, and healthy food with no questions asked.

However if a family is unable to support more than one child I do believe Society should have a system to protect additional children from poverty.

[Risale]

Look the only way on preventing this from occuring is to sterilize the people in question and on top of that removing the excess kids they have by placing those into foster care.
You think that is harsh well it is and it is the only feasible way of preventing this happening, a license or china's one child policy are simply not a workable option.
There is simply no political party in the US or in the EU that has the balls to bring such a plan forward let alone being able to turn it into law.

Even if you did manage to get such a law passed, who gets to decide who gets a licence to have a child, this would be an open invitation for racial culling and saying that this wouldn't happen as it would, simply due to the fact that the majority of the minority are non white (this applies for the US and EU), so only those of certain economic means get to have children ie white people (welcome to Nazi Germany 2.0) and if you think the coloured community will simply accept this then your fooling yourself.

The one child policy might be an option but has flaws also depending on culture, in china children were either aborted (sex selective abortion was only banned in 2004) or killed (left out in the country) for not being boys (currently 32 million men of marriage age but no available women for them).

So if the options of sterilization, license, 1 child policy are simply not viable then all you can hope for is status quo and mass promote safe sex education from as young as possible.

[Anodur]

Is it the woman's choice to have sex, not really it is just as much if not more so the Male of our species who decides when sex is going to happen.

I should also point out that the Majority of people who vote Yes on your poll would want Abortion illegal, and not fund Sex education or contraception.

Women don't choose to have voluntary sex? wtf
Sex is pretty much 50/50 when it's all voluntary.

I didn't know that you can read minds and know that unnamed people who voted Yes want abortion illegal and sex ed defunded.
Sex ed doesn't work when there's no incentive to refrain from pregnancy. Why should I care about whether I have kids if the state will be responsible for them, and not me?

[Shennanigans]

Permanent sterilization goes too far. Perhaps requiring someone who has had maybe 2 kids they cannot care for, to have a Norplant. It's not permanent. If they refuse, they lose their parental rights, welfare and it becomes a crime.

[Anodur]

I want free contraception, and the Morning after pill to be made over the counter. I also want all Children to have full medical, full housing, Free Education, and healthy food with no questions asked.

I wish this could be true, but unfortunately, nothing's free in this world (would you work your ass off for nothing? I wouldn't).

The hard work to make these things "free" has to come from somewhere, and in my opinion, it better come from the parents. They chose to make the kids. Now they need to support them.

[Veroku Chan]

I have mixed feelings about these sorts of things. I would certainly hope that the people who make use of the system are those that need it, and not just people taking advantage of it, because then they are likely not using the money they get to support their kids properly.

I don't know how easy it is for people in these situations to get finacial assistance, but I know the financial assistance that I have been trying to get for over 3 years now has been nothing but a nightmare. I personally need to see a doctor for several medical conditions on a frequent basis, along with medications to treat my conditions. Being that my conditions keep me from working, I have to seek financial assistance, and they just drag you through a long process, forcing you to go into doctors on your own accord to build up medical records to support your disability claim, but that just ends up building up a mountain of debt.

I think several systems are broken and need revising. Financial assistance should be there and accessible for those that need it, but not abuseable by those that don't. I've not been able to see a doctor for quite some time now, as there is just no way I can, even though I need to.

[Xargoth6634]

It's certainly a problem and the system is definitely abused. That said, I don't have an perfect solution. I'd be onboard with limiting benefits after a certain number of children. I mean, it's certainly not an ideal solution, but neither is paying out for people who are unable to support themselves but continue to procreate regardless.

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This lady disagrees

As far as I am concerned you should have to have a license of some sort to have children. If you can not support yourself you should not have children.

That woman disgusts me. "Someone needs to be held accountable?" Does she even know what that fucking means?

[Gothicshark]

Women don't choose to have voluntary sex? wtf
Sex is pretty much 50/50 when it's all voluntary.

I didn't know that you can read minds and know that unnamed people who voted Yes want abortion illegal and sex ed defunded.
Sex ed doesn't work when there's no incentive to refrain from pregnancy. Why should I care about whether I have kids if the state will be responsible for them, and not me?

Spoken like a guy.

As for the second paragraph, just look at the Republican Stance on those issues.

No Sex Education in School, No funding for contraception, No Abortions, No Welfare. <- yah, they just want to remove all social assistance. Look at how they really against the Affordable Healthcare act. How many times have they tried to repeal it, how many millions of tax payers money have gone into a war against giving healthcare to low income working families? Oh and it's not even a Nationalized healthcare system, it is just a system making it so employers have to offer healthcare plans. And it forces insurance companies to insure people even if they have been hospitalized in the past.

So it's not even a Socialist Healthcare plan.

[Risale]

Permanent sterilization goes too far. Perhaps requiring someone who has had maybe 2 kids they cannot care for, to have a Norplant. It's not permanent. If they refuse, they lose their parental rights, welfare and it becomes a crime.

Again this will 90% of the time affect the non white community and would be considered a form racial culling, I agree with you but the fact is no political party has the balls to pull this off and even if you did you might end up with a race war in your country, not to mention all the international preasure and possible intervention as it would be a human rights violation and unless your china you can't shrug that kind of preasure off not even the US.

[Spectral]

It's really a shame that sterilization is so widely considered a human rights violation.