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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    I just don't see how they can balance fights around the berserker zerg tactics without introducing content that is exclusive to hardcore players and that sort breaks a big part of the casual nature of the game.
    How do you think the zerkers would react if there was a new diminishing return that made too much berserker redundant?

  2. #62
    It is very likely writers do not simply "forget" their own work. But rather they change their minds, want to go in another direction or a more intriguing idea comes to mind in the process.

    Brian K. Vaughan wrote a nice article about this years ago. It was good.

  3. #63
    Or sometimes they admit it. :P As an example, "The Southern Vampire Mysteries" author, Charlaine Harris, said of the character Debbie that she forgot about making her a werelynx initially (she was later written as a werefox) and went on to say that these things happen in a complex series that has been a work in progress for many years.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    Or sometimes they admit it. :P As an example, "The Southern Vampire Mysteries" author, Charlaine Harris, said of the character Debbie that she forgot about making her a werelynx initially (she was later written as a werefox) and went on to say that these things happen in a complex series that has been a work in progress for many years.
    Sometimes, sure. Anything is possible with creative arts.

    Werelynx & werefox. My mind is fucking blown.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    How do you think the zerkers would react if there was a new diminishing return that made too much berserker redundant?
    That would just introduce caps and the best gear would switch to 4 x zerk, 1 x Z and 1 x Y or something like that. Did it often enough in my enhance shammy

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    That would just introduce caps and the best gear would switch to 4 x zerk, 1 x Z and 1 x Y or something like that. Did it often enough in my enhance shammy
    Sure, but it would reduce the overall damage output either way, thus making other gear closer anyway.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Matter View Post
    That would just introduce caps and the best gear would switch to 4 x zerk, 1 x Z and 1 x Y or something like that. Did it often enough in my enhance shammy
    The problem is what exactly? The point is to reduce the effectiveness of berserker gear. Though the main culprit is +crit damage. 40%+ extra crit damage when players can get that plus 60% base crit without fury? Yea that's totally not gonna fuck up encounter designs at all.. /sarcasm

  8. #68
    Though the main culprit is +crit damage
    I dunno why designers keep adding that stat in games, either. It's been a problem in every game that I've played that had it.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I dunno why designers keep adding that stat in games, either. It's been a problem in every game that I've played that had it.
    Not sure what the point is in introducing +crit damage at all besides the obvious "zerg and pwn everything" implementation which makes PvP and PvE trivial.

  10. #70
    I thought from the beginning that crit was just supposed to offer different proc effects from the crits, not an increase in damage. They changed their mind or I'm not remembering correctly.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Sure, but it would reduce the overall damage output either way, thus making other gear closer anyway.
    They could just reduce the benefit from crit and get the same effect. The point, as I understand it, for Zerk gear is that it's a high damage high risk type of gear but there is not really high risk in the game. The problem is that other gear types need to have their place. I think the best they can do is make the other gear types more attractive. Make a support traited player with healing gear make a real difference. Not for the entry level fights but for the higher difficulty variants like Fractals 20+. Let toughness and vitality give you a couple of extra hits that you can survive, etc. Then they could start to tune the higher level content to encourage people to diversify their groups. People aren't going to pug fractals 50 so you are talking about an organised group. Pushing out some unavoidable AOE damage that needs a support player to push out some healing would do the world of good for encouraging more tactical play and avoiding zergs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Not sure what the point is in introducing +crit damage at all besides the obvious "zerg and pwn everything" implementation which makes PvP and PvE trivial.
    The problem with crit, IMHO, is that the amounts are normally too high. They would be better off giving crit something like 30% more damage and then limiting the total crit to something like 50%. It would also help to give some traits where people could get conversion from healing/toughness/etc -> crit or those types of mixes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The problem is what exactly? The point is to reduce the effectiveness of berserker gear. Though the main culprit is +crit damage. 40%+ extra crit damage when players can get that plus 60% base crit without fury? Yea that's totally not gonna fuck up encounter designs at all.. /sarcasm
    The problem is more that other gear types don't have their place and less that zerk is too effective. It's an easy game at the core and without further limiting the benefit of stats in general, people will always put on high DPS set X and zerg. That happens because fights are designed to handle blue -> exotic.

  12. #72
    Actually you're all wrong

    It's not crit damage it's damage multipliers. The reason for this is rather simple, damage (unlike crit damage) scales multiplicatively.
    So if you get scholar runes you deal 1.1* normal damage. If you also have sigil of force you don't get 1.15 but instead you get 1.155.

    An added problem is that that number also scales(multiplicatively) with crit which means that if you have a 360% crit dmg and 180% damage you get 648% "normal" damage and getting 100% crit chance is rather easy (when playing with an organised team).

    For "gigles" I once calculated how much Effective power you could get fully stacked (and with a selfish build when others run support builds) and it was around 28k which is massive since base EP is something like 6k.
    __________________________________________________________________

    This all isn't really a problem if there was equivalent gear for conditions but there simply isn't. There (hardly) is a correlation between cond damage and cond duration but they definitely don't scale with eachother, add to this that conditions have a cap (silly as hell) and you find your answer.

    You can't "force" people to bring gear other than zerg (tough/vit) unless you implement undodgeable one shot kill mechanics which simply is stupid and lame design. Normally everyone should have enough mechanics to stay alive dodge*2 + heal skill, there isn't a single encounter ingame where you can "run out" of those tools to keep you alive.

  13. #73
    Actually you're all wrong

    It's not crit damage it's damage multipliers.
    Damage multipliers sucking doesn't also mean that +Crit damage doesn't suck too.

  14. #74
    Sure you have a point, but I think the main problem is the damage multiplier and not the crit multiplier since many classes have real "wonky" traits that don't give +crit and +crit damage. The main problem with crit damage imo is consumables + the buffs to certain traits and signets, which made it very easy to get 100% crit chance.

    Most games have a crit multiplier of 2 while GW2 starts at 1.5. If you add (passive) traits you get 1.8 armor gives 0.16 a weapon gives 0.1 so if you get those together you're at 2.06 which isn't ungodly amounts of many. Now add accessories exotic : 36% ascended: 44% which brings it up to 2.42 or 2.5 it's a tad high but not all that ungodly. Bring in consumables, active traits a banner and you end up with another 30% (or more) so that totals 2.8 which is OTT but I think we'll be able to get to 3.0 with ascended gear.

    300% damage (on crit) is a lot, true (especially with 100% crit chance being obtainable for everyone) but that number is high but adding damage to that makes it insane, my mesmer has (under the best circumstances) around 140% damage so let's take 2.6*1.4 and we get 364% damage which is a lot more outlandish than 260%.

    This is also the reason why eles and rangers do so much damage, they have low crit multipliers but very high damage multipliers.

  15. #75
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    Big reveal planned for PAX

    Quote Originally Posted by ColinJohanson
    We won’t have a major presence at Gamescom this year no, though a number of senior staff will be flying out to attend the community party that weekend at Gamescom to meet everyone and share a few beers. Make sure to stop by if you’re there for the show!

    Somewhat related, if you’re even thinking of being in the Seattle are this year during PAX: you absolutely will not want to miss our ArenaNet PAX event. Not only will it include our PvP championship live on stage, we’ll have some other reveals you’re not going to want to miss…stay tuned! (and no the reveal is not an expansion!)
    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...st#post2640300
    If you want justice, you've come to the wrong place.
    ~Tyrion Lannister, Game of Thrones

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