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  1. #21
    I just want them to make their minds up with our mastery. We are going to start avoiding it like the plague if they don't change things up. Sadly I can't really think of something of the top of my head that will help the issue, maybe make it increase the rage generated from hits by a really slowing increasing rate per point like 0.1 per point of mastery?
    Mastery will probably receive a change along with Savage Defense in the next expansion.

  2. #22
    Any thoughts on Incarnation vs Soul of the Forest for 5.4?

  3. #23
    Has there been any mention of a replacement way to battle rez in bear now that Nature's Swiftness is going away?
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by BrerBear View Post
    Has there been any mention of a replacement way to battle rez in bear now that Nature's Swiftness is going away?
    The new bear version of doc can cast brez in form last I heard.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo View Post
    The new bear version of doc can cast brez in form last I heard.
    Thanks, I missed that. It's going to make that last tier a hard talent choice, for sure, and I guess that's what they're after.
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

  6. #26
    Any reason to go Mastery > Crit in 5.4? does our Mastery reduce magic damage also now or is this too good to be true?

  7. #27
    no reason.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo View Post
    no reason.
    No reason besides hitting a RPS threshhold where you can use SD/Maul on CD and have enough rage left over for comfortable FR usage- after that, might as well put secondaries into mastery. The amount of scaling this expansion hasnt been seen since Wrath- its actually even higher on the scaling, all classes are getting HUGE amounts of secondaries.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    No reason besides hitting a RPS threshhold where you can use SD/Maul on CD and have enough rage left over for comfortable FR usage- after that, might as well put secondaries into mastery. The amount of scaling this expansion hasnt been seen since Wrath- its actually even higher on the scaling, all classes are getting HUGE amounts of secondaries.
    Until you have so much gear that you armor cap and then there's no reason to put secondaries into mastery either.

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  10. #30
    Until you have so much gear that you armor cap and then there's no reason to put secondaries into mastery either.
    You can't cap without gemming Mastery, and doing that is really dumb.

    No reason besides hitting a RPS threshhold where you can use SD/Maul on CD and have enough rage left over for comfortable FR usage- after that, might as well put secondaries into mastery. The amount of scaling this expansion hasnt been seen since Wrath- its actually even higher on the scaling, all classes are getting HUGE amounts of secondaries.
    Well you can't hit that number anyway, so it's a pretty irrelevant statement.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by spaceape View Post
    Any reason to go Mastery > Crit in 5.4? does our Mastery reduce magic damage also now or is this too good to be true?
    Mastery doesn't change, so Stamina remains the superior stat for its purpose, which is damage smoothing and improvement in survival against spike. In 5.4, the improved conversion rate for Stamina in Bear form makes that even more true (though it also means you will have even less reason to gem/enchant for it, since you'll have more than enough health points).

  12. #32
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Mastery will probably receive a change along with Savage Defense in the next expansion.
    Oh God dammit! For once I liked how my tank felt. My Paladin felt like a Retri with a 1h, my warrior is boring as hell, my DK revolved around "MOAR SHIELDZ!".

    I admit our mastery is broken but I like SD. It gives us a nice place as avoidance tanks vs mitigation tank vs soak tank. I really like that about our toolkit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    A noble goal, but it isn't this black and white. You lose survivability if you pump out more dps during times where damage is low, but you do not risk dying. If you are any good, you'd chose to do more damage in that case.
    Also the difference in dps between a fully survival focussed bear and one who focusses only on dps, isn't very high at all. I feel like "I try to survive as a tank" is too often used as an excuse for bad play/damage.

    Sorry but this was just my rant. Quite off-topic.
    No I get the point. I know the difference between the two is small from avoidance vs RPS.

    My main complaint is peoples constant worry about loosing out on their tank DPS with veng nerfs and such. I'm a tank for Gods sake! I soak shit not break shit. I'll do damage when it isn't my turn to be punched in the face but when its my turn hell if I give a damn to my damage.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by wazzak View Post
    Any thoughts on Incarnation vs Soul of the Forest for 5.4?
    In terms of rage generation, SotF is good at all times, especially if your innate rage generation is weak or your gear level is low. If you already have good RPS, SotF is likely overkill and can cause us to inadvertently cap/waste rage. If you're currently sporting a 550 ilvl or even just full normal ToT gear, this talent is likely a waste.

    Incarnation still has the damage lead over SotF (I think it was a couple thousand DPS over SotF, I don't have my numbers in front of me), as well as still being the guaranteed rage-on-demand mechanic. With our current passive RPS generation getting ever higher, I'd imagine we look at this talent (and the others from this tier) less for their RPS and more for their damage output. That being said, I still line Incarnation up for high-damage situations where I'll likely be using FR quite a few times in short succession.

    I figured I should mention, since we're on the topic of rage generation with these two talents, that the changes on the PTR to Barkskin and the new 2pc tier set bonus for Guardians make our rage needs even less. Seriously, during PTR testing I found myself being at full rage with no charges left on SD and an eternity before SD expired... throw in tank swaps, and the rage needed to maintain SD while actively tanking is much less than currently on live.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  14. #34
    I figured I should mention, since we're on the topic of rage generation with these two talents, that the changes on the PTR to Barkskin and the new 2pc tier set bonus for Guardians make our rage needs even less. Seriously, during PTR testing I found myself being at full rage with no charges left on SD and an eternity before SD expired... throw in tank swaps, and the rage needed to maintain SD while actively tanking is much less than currently on live.
    That's not going to make it to live.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    That's not going to make it to live.
    I wouldn't be too surprised if it did go live. The combination of changes makes our active mitigation almost go to completely passive after a handful of GCDs, and believe me that would be a long-term nightmare. However, the driving factor with massive SD uptime is the tier 2pc, and at this point in the expansion they're meant to be pretty silly in terms of power. By the time 6.0 rolls around, the tier will be gone, and we're likely going to see a major Guardian tanking overhaul if the blue posts are any indication. If Blizz does have an issue with it, I'd rather them change the 2pc versus reverting the Barkskin cooldown change.

    Be that as it may, the actual impact of much longer continuous SD uptime isn't that game-breaking for SoO with all the tank swaps (which usually translates into 100% SD uptime while actively tanking anyways)... of course, there are some encounters where that's true, I have to be fair about that. The only tangible difference from live to PTR is that we could tank much longer w/o SD dropping for extended lengths of active tanking time, which are not very common unless one solo-tanks. So far, the Klaxxi and Spoils encounters are the only ones where a change to reduce SD uptime to live levels would be noticeable. Other encounters either have tank swaps and/or downtime where SD recharges fast enough to allow good SD uptime.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I wouldn't be too surprised if it did go live. The combination of changes makes our active mitigation almost go to completely passive after a handful of GCDs, and believe me that would be a long-term nightmare. However, the driving factor with massive SD uptime is the tier 2pc, and at this point in the expansion they're meant to be pretty silly in terms of power. By the time 6.0 rolls around, the tier will be gone, and we're likely going to see a major Guardian tanking overhaul if the blue posts are any indication. If Blizz does have an issue with it, I'd rather them change the 2pc versus reverting the Barkskin cooldown change.

    Be that as it may, the actual impact of much longer continuous SD uptime isn't that game-breaking for SoO with all the tank swaps (which usually translates into 100% SD uptime while actively tanking anyways)... of course, there are some encounters where that's true, I have to be fair about that. The only tangible difference from live to PTR is that we could tank much longer w/o SD dropping for extended lengths of active tanking time, which are not very common unless one solo-tanks. So far, the Klaxxi and Spoils encounters are the only ones where a change to reduce SD uptime to live levels would be noticeable. Other encounters either have tank swaps and/or downtime where SD recharges fast enough to allow good SD uptime.
    Noob question. Is there a time cap duration on Savage Defense or i can keep pumping(like Monk Shuffle) in Savage Defense until my charges run dry without wasting the Savage Defense duration?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by trifrost View Post
    Noob question. Is there a time cap duration on Savage Defense or i can keep pumping(like Monk Shuffle) in Savage Defense until my charges run dry without wasting the Savage Defense duration?
    Assuming you use every charge when available you will eventually be unable to keep SD up at around 45 seconds due to the recharge timer. With 30 second Barkskin and the 2 piece the cap timer is so ridiculously high that it only really matters for soloing.

  18. #38
    That's not going to make it to live.
    I ahve to disagree, I think it will make it.

    The reason I believe that is, high uptimes on AMs next content is nothing new, the uptime from protpalas is very high on an add fight 100%. And the current 2piece from monk is about the same as the 2piece we will get, just the other way around and maybe not as good.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by trifrost View Post
    Noob question. Is there a time cap duration on Savage Defense or i can keep pumping(like Monk Shuffle) in Savage Defense until my charges run dry without wasting the Savage Defense duration?
    In the sense you're talking about there is no cap.

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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by trifrost View Post
    Noob question. Is there a time cap duration on Savage Defense or i can keep pumping(like Monk Shuffle) in Savage Defense until my charges run dry without wasting the Savage Defense duration?
    Savage Defense stacks duration for as long as you can keep using charges. It's not always to your benefit, though, since some bosses take breaks from attacking, like Ji-Kun, so you want to be aware of that and not waste your Rage.

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