Is fire all about crit?

[awildpidgeyappears]

-snip-

I would agree with most of the ones you mentioned being cheeses, except for Council. That seems like a broad interpretation of “cheese,” which I would define more as “selfishly increasing your own damage at the expense of doing fight mechanics correctly.” Skipping upper nests on Ji-Kun and combusting the wrong head on Megaera are perfect examples.

Stacking the bosses on Council, on the other hand—that’s just doing the fight smartly. Other classes have cleave, too, and their dps is also benefitted (thus finishing the encounter faster) by stacking the bosses. The only thing that could mayyyybe considered a cheese is if you also stack Mar’li in and ignore the Blessed Loa Spirit.

High ranks (even top 10) are possible without cheesing, tricks, etc., but they difficult to come by and involve the stars aligning in a way that you have very little control over and very little chance of replicating on any given pull (e.g., Wush being at 7-8 stacks before AT combust spreading into Ice Walls).

[voltaa]

snip

I didn't necessarily mean everything that I mentioned was "cheesing" but just pointing out that the way you do that fights is important to whether you rank or not, stacking council isn't a very good progression strat, but once you overgear the fight it works great for ranking

[Polarthief]

There is very little difference? Unskilled players can't survive heroic encounters while maintaining ranking dps. And even if your "unskilled" floor is a capable heroic Mage then yes there is still a huuuuge difference. There is a reason some have ranks on every boss while others are 13/13 with few to none. Ill give you a hint, it's not RNG...ok I'll tell you, it's skill.

Skill influences how you respond to mechanics. If you're good enough to understand the rotation alone, on a boss like Durumu (before the laser), the unskilled can easily surpass the skilled based on how many crit pyroblasts they get for their Combustion/how many crits they get when they're just sitting there spamming Fireball.



Also, I'm starting to think that CM doesn't work at all. I'm getting astronomically-low-odds of RNG with my Fireballs. I think my record atm is 11 non-crits in a row with over 62% Crit (after everything taken into account).

I could be wrong about probability, but when you have two events with only one of them happening, you just take that into account with the equation.

So, .38 ^ 11 = 0.0000238572 = 0.0024%, and this shit happens almost every raid night (not usually 11, but I have had plenty of 5s and 6s, which would be .79% and .3%, respectively). Why the fuck don't I have all these raid mounts yet?

[Kenbud]

I put rank in quotations becaise there is getting top 200 or whatever the limit is, where basically if you kill the boss you rank, then there is the top 50 where people actually compete and put up numbers. And as for "cheesing" or changing strats to benefit fire, council, some guilds still don't stack all the bosses on top of eachother, my guild hasn't done it so ranking high is out of the question, there's jikun, where you have to be on the first nest, kill your add before the first nutrient and get it on the way up to be competitive (as well as not go up for top nests), as you said the obvious ones, tortos and horridon, on megaera you can split dps so that you can get full combustions off on the heads as well as spred combust to adds, keeping icewalls up on durumu, there is a lot you can do, and that people will do to rank, and this is just as fire, I'm sure you've looked at the scumbag shit Arold pulls as arcane to get top parses.

I don't disagree that skill is a huge factor, but to pull top of the top, strategy comes into play as well as like you said, good rng

I see what your point and I can agree with that, I thought you were saying just because guilds use different strats its considered cheesing. Combusting on the other head on Mag I would say is definitely cheesing but on the adds no. I have also never seen the icewall cheese you mentioned but that explains some of the ranks haha

[Frost1129]

Is this even a question? Every one of our mechanics are 100% tied into crit for success.

[Arag]

A bit offtopic: but as pure dps what you want from this game if not getting higher on metters? What else can you do?

For fire if you not criting you arent getting pyros. Crit is so high bcs we need to get 2 crits in row so we can stack ignite. About haste get to breakpoint forget about it stack crit/mastery:P

[Akakishin]

A bit offtopic: but as pure dps what you want from this game if not getting higher on metters? What else can you do?

For fire if you not criting you arent getting pyros. Crit is so high bcs we need to get 2 crits in row so we can stack ignite. About haste get to breakpoint forget about it stack crit/mastery:P

Well, FYI so many people play to beat end bosses, gear up and enjoy quality and quantity same and its not only possible with meter padding. But even in meter padding some classes are really enjoyable and fun to play. What this topic is about is that Fire is about crit and crit is not a system based on skill. ofc there are some obvious facts like you have to know fight's mechanism and what the hell is gonna happen in for example a Heroic encounter. but despite that, how you're gonna perform good as fire mage isn't based on your skill its all about RNG(don't get me wrong, Im not saying fire mages aren't skilled and they are just lucky players, I'm saying Fire's possibility to play reasonable and how others expect it from you is unfortunately based on crit-the rewardless guy-) . And knowing fight mechanism and not screwing the run isn't skill, its basic requirement to even enter an encounter.

edit:typo

[Polarthief]

How to easily explain Fire to someone: http://cinemassacre.com/2009/12/03/little-red-hood/

(Just replace all instances of "Game" with "Fire")


"But first, let's recap and make sure we got this straight, okay? Alright, you wait for randomly flashing staircases to appear in which you try to find a randomly appearing key which randomly appears within the randomly appearing staircases and then try to collect a random number of cherries that randomly appear as you kick palm trees to reveal another staircase that doesn't flash or more or less appears to be flashing but in a frozen state, you go in there, and then you're off to the next level. You got that? Well good, cuz now, all you gotta do is do that nine more times, and congratulations, you've learned the secret to playing Little Red Hood."

I swear, just reading that makes me think of Fire.

[Deleted]

Just found this discussion, I read it rapidly
But I can tell that that 4pT16 decrease Crit value a little.
For a 600s fight, with ~30 IB (1 every 20s), Pryoblast average crit rate jump ~80% while Fb is around 66%. With a little more than 50% crit raid buff.

[Menphis]

I personally think its "mostly" about crit.

Having more haste does lead to more chances at crits/pyro procs,
but when going for a huge combustion, you need streaks of crits for your pyros.
If you dont have enough crit, you'll probably have a pretty low ignite value for your combustion.
And it really makes a difference in dps.


I only do LFR atm, so my gear is from LFR/World Bosses/Valor and my crit rating is around 46% with self buffs.
Nathyiel mentioned about losing crit with T16, and I was recently thinking,
although I'm using 2 ilvl510 tier and 2 ilvl530 tier pieces for the set bonus,
I'm not sure if I should lose the T15 Pyro 5% crit bonus for the new T16LFR set(normal mode gloves and legs if lucky).
Losing 5% Pyro crits for my combustion feels just too much.
Why I think this way is because, even with the T15 4pc bonus and with both BoH+Chaye proc'ing on pull,
I still sometimes have bad luck (shitty ignites), thus am seriously scared of losing crit. (thats how much I think crit is valuable for fire)

T16 4pc gives you a guaranteed crit for the Pyro you use after an IB, but that doesn't really help to give you crit streaks for your pyroblasts for your huge combustion.
Maybe the new ilvl 535 crit proc trinket available with Timeless Coins will compensate for my combustion i dunno.

[Deleted]

Yes it is.