1. #1
    Blademaster Alutora's Avatar
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    Hunter 25 man Lei Shen (and possibly Ra-Den) HC help!

    Hello all,

    I'm about to experience Lei Shen heroic tonight for the first time. I've just joined a guild that already killed hc Lei Shen and Ra-Den, so I want to make good first impression. I went through a lot of videos and guides, but I still struggle with some mechanics.

    -Can hunter solo soak Static Shock via Deterrence? Do I need deterrence glyphed for this?
    -Helm of Command: Is it possible to disengage? (so I don't fall off the platform)
    -Spec: What spec is the best? I'm both BM and SV, can play both spec well. (Maybe I prefer MB to SV, but I don't mind at all)
    -Do you think it's better option Posthaste or Hidden chimera? (15lvl talent)
    - Glyphs I have for the fight: Deterrence, Disengage, Animal bond - do you think these will work well?

    And possibly one question about Ra-Den: What spec shoudl I go with? BM or SV? Thank you.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Alutora View Post
    -Can hunter solo soak Static Shock via Deterrence? Do I need deterrence glyphed for this?
    Yes. EDIT: It completely deflects the damage, so no glyph is necessary.
    -Helm of Command: Is it possible to disengage? (so I don't fall off the platform)
    Yes. EDIT: Furthermore, you can also use Aspect of the Cheetah while under the effect of Helm of Command (the daze is not proc'd from Helm of Command damage). If you're paranoid, you could consider taking the glyph that removes the daze.
    -Spec: What spec is the best? I'm both BM and SV, can play both spec well. (Maybe I prefer MB to SV, but I don't mind at all)
    Is there *any* fight where SV is superior? BM is the more popular spec for this fight.
    -Do you think it's better option Posthaste or Hidden chimera? (15lvl talent)
    I think most hunters pick Hidden Chimera, but unless you get unfortunate static RNG you can put it down to personal preference.
    - Glyphs I have for the fight: Deterrence, Disengage, Animal bond - do you think these will work well?
    Pretty much anything you would deterrence is entirely deflected, so that glyph is probably wasted, though there aren't many better options (Liberation is one)

    And possibly one question about Ra-Den: What spec shoudl I go with? BM or SV? Thank you.
    BM is the more popular spec.
    Last edited by HonneurVilified; 2013-08-11 at 10:24 AM.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alutora View Post
    Hello all,

    I'm about to experience Lei Shen heroic tonight for the first time. I've just joined a guild that already killed hc Lei Shen and Ra-Den, so I want to make good first impression. I went through a lot of videos and guides, but I still struggle with some mechanics.

    -Can hunter solo soak Static Shock via Deterrence? Do I need deterrence glyphed for this?
    -Helm of Command: Is it possible to disengage? (so I don't fall off the platform)
    -Spec: What spec is the best? I'm both BM and SV, can play both spec well. (Maybe I prefer MB to SV, but I don't mind at all)
    -Do you think it's better option Posthaste or Hidden chimera? (15lvl talent)
    - Glyphs I have for the fight: Deterrence, Disengage, Animal bond - do you think these will work well?

    And possibly one question about Ra-Den: What spec shoudl I go with? BM or SV? Thank you.
    You can soak with Static Shock and no you don't need the glyph since it negates all the damage due to the deflect mechanic on deterrence.
    Best way to deal with Helm is good placement before it goes out (As close to the center where Lei Shen is) and also if you have a resto druid tell him to symbioses you since he gains deterrence (solo soak) and you gain dash meaning that the helm is a lot easier to deal with.
    BM due to the single target dps it can produce and if you time your beast cleave and barrage well, you will do quite good damage on ball lightnings.
    I would say CTHC since it gives your deterrence and disengage a shorter CD which is very nice for both damage reduction to Thunderstruck and easier movement in p3.
    I don't think glyph of deterrence does anything on this fight since everything gets deflected (not 100% sure though). Other than that yes.

    BM for Ra-Den.

  4. #4
    I'll just quickly answer your questions because I'm a tiny bit busy at the moment.

    -Can hunter solo soak Static Shock via Deterrence? Do I need deterrence glyphed for this?
    You don't need the Deterrence glyph for anything on Lei-Shen. You should be saving them for the Static Shocks so you can solo soak them, and Deterrence completely deflects the damage from it.

    -Helm of Command: Is it possible to disengage (so I don't fall off the platform)
    I heard it's possible, but I never tried it because we have Warlock portals and I have a rocket belt, Dash, and Dark Flight to deal with it. I don't want to risk it because the knockback is actually quite significant. Even turning around for a split second to Disengage might be fatal.

    -Spec: What spec is the best? I'm both BL and SV, can play both spec well. (Maybe I prefer MB to SV, but I don't mind at all)
    Beast Mastery for sure. It's not like it's impossible for Survival, but it's a mostly single target fight with the ball lightnings only taking 3-ish seconds to AoE down. If they use a Monk to taunt Lei-Shen between quadrants your pet might be out of range for a second or two while walking but the higher single target damage still offsets that.

    -Do you think it's better option Posthaste or Hidden chimera? (15lvl talent)
    You want to solo soak as many Static Shocks as you can, and if this guild is as organized as most guilds they will probably count on you solo soaking all Static Shocks you get. You absolutely need Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera for the 1 minute cooldown Deterrence.

    - Glyphs I have for the fight: Deterrence, Disengage, Animal bond - do you think these will work well?
    Standard glyphs are fine, but swap Deterrence out for Disengage. The platform is pretty big and the extra range the glyph of Deterrence gives is great to have. Glyph of Deterrence, as I mentioned before, doesn't do anything because you deflect pretty much everything on Lei-Shen anyway (not 100% sure on bouncing bolts, but you shouldn't ever waste Deterrence on those).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alutora View Post
    And possibly one question about Ra-Den: What spec shoudl I go with? BM or SV? Thank you.
    Beast Mastery again. Make sure you get a proper macro for this fight as it makes quite a difference if you want to look good on the logs. I'll give you mine (despite it being really simple) but I don't know what tactics your guild uses. Regardless I'll explain what each part does.

    /target Essence of Anima
    /target Corrupted Anima
    /use Arcane Shot
    /petattack
    /use Fire Breath
    /use Rabid

    Spamming this button as the Materials of Creation is being cast will make you target the Anima orb instantly and send your pet to it (get Blink Strikes!). You will also use Arcane Shot instantly provided you are facing it and it's in range. I manage Rabid manually on this fight by either delaying it a few seconds for the orb (hence the macro) or just casting it myself when orbs aren't being cast or killed. I also use a Dragon Hawk with it's Fire Breath turned off so this macro will make me debuff the orb with +5% magic damage taken as well. Some guilds kill the Corrupted Anima in the second phase, others don't. We used to do it but I just didn't remove that line from my macro yet.

    I'm assuming you read a guide on how to handle the anima orbs already, but if you do it properly and if your guild checks the logs for the orb damage you can easily make yourself look really good. And with that note, I wish you the best of luck with those two fights.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Alutora View Post
    -Can hunter solo soak Static Shock via Deterrence? Do I need deterrence glyphed for this?
    -Helm of Command: Is it possible to disengage? (so I don't fall off the platform)
    -Spec: What spec is the best? I'm both BM and SV, can play both spec well. (Maybe I prefer MB to SV, but I don't mind at all)
    -Do you think it's better option Posthaste or Hidden chimera? (15lvl talent)
    - Glyphs I have for the fight: Deterrence, Disengage, Animal bond - do you think these will work well?
    You can solo soak Static Shock with Deterrence and you don't get any damage, so you also you don't need the Deterrence glyph. Anything in this fight can be fully absorbed by Deterrence.

    You can Disengage during Helm of Command. Also Aspect of the Cheetah is helpful. But honestly it is best if hunters get a platform with a warlock portal. If you don't get one with a warlock portal you propably should go Posthaste and hope for the best. Else go Hidden chimera.

    BM is good for this fight. It is mostly single target.

    Concerning Glyphs: As said, you don't need Deterrence. You can use the glyph for the runspeed boost for cheetah if you can't use a warlock portal. Or the disengage heal glyph could help to stay alive in p3.

  6. #6
    The Patient Relis's Avatar
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    What they've said about Lei Shen pretty much covers it.

    Ra-den is fairly straight forward, BM is good enough.
    I change to Thrill of the Hunt for it though and dumped a shitload of Arcane Shots on the Corrupted Anima orb in P1.
    You may not need to go that far though depending on your setup. We were light on Ranged and it got a bit close for comfort a couple of times so a few people altered little things to help.
    Also, for same said reasons above, I had a Windserpent for the Magic Damage Taken debuff on orbs and used a Macro for it (I'll link macro below incase you want.. It's of the top of my head as I'm not online atm)

    /target Corrupted Anima
    /target Essence of Anima
    /petattack
    /cast Lightning Breath(Special Ability)

    That covers fast targeting of the Orbs in P1 and P2. Even if you don't need the Pet macro shit, at least the /Target part is very useful!

    *Edit* Oh i see Bovan got in there before me with a similar macro :P

  7. #7
    On Lei Shen, if you have a druid with Symbiosis available and no Warlock portal in your quadrant you can ask for Symbiosis to get Dash (70% movement speed for 15 secs on a 3 min CD). If you are an engineer it's a good idea to use Nitro Boosts but only really as a last resort considering how unrelaible they are.

  8. #8
    Blademaster Alutora's Avatar
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    Wow, so many useful answers, thank you so much! You all helped me a lot.

  9. #9
    Glyph of Pathfinding is a good glyph for this fight; the extra 8% is (modestly) helpful. The only time during transitions that you can get dazed are from the adds and from the bouncing bolts landing, so I stay in Cheetah for most of the phase (switching to Iron Hawk right as a bouncing bolt lands or when an add is in the quadrant and I have to DPS it).

    Symbiosis for dash is nice but unnecessary (warlock portals should be enough, especially if you're already in Cheetah). However, the deterrence is necessary for your resto shaman, so you probably will get it anyway.

    SV is inferior for every fight at this point; the buff to Beast Cleave removed the use for it. Well, Animus is perhaps better as SV; it's debatable. If your pet is holding an anima golem then I'd go SV (which I do in our raids, since mine is).

  10. #10
    Hidden Chimera is mandatory for Lei Shen. You can use Disengage to move from the Hammers in both Phase 1 and Phase 3, and you will need as many Deterrence as possible to solo-soak Statics in transitions and during Phase 3.

    You do not need anything other than a Warlock portal to survive Helm. If you move far enough towards the center before it goes out, you can technically just walk forward and survive it without an external, however Darkflight (worgen), Dash (symbiosis) or Priest feathers / bubble-speed are all helpful. Rocket boots is dicey, if you're an engineer you'll want frags anyway for the adds.
    subrosian @ Whisperwind, Raid Leader <Victory or Whatever> 25-man 13/13H, vowguild.com

  11. #11
    Glyph of explosive trap may come in handy depending on which strat you are using and what type of roots/stuns/knock backs you already have. Similar argument for silencing shot vs intimidation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Getting sub 10% on this fight and had a question or two besides my prior input.

    Does a ball lightning still spawn on you if you have deterrence up?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by khatian View Post
    Glyph of explosive trap may come in handy depending on which strat you are using and what type of roots/stuns/knock backs you already have. Similar argument for silencing shot vs intimidation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Getting sub 10% on this fight and had a question or two besides my prior input.

    Does a ball lightning still spawn on you if you have deterrence up?
    Yes, ball lightnings spawn on your if you have deterrence up and are outside of melee.

    Do not use glyph of explosive trap. If you use it for the ball lightnings it is pretty good (for 25 man, not sure about 10).

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  13. #13
    Definitely take intimidation. There's nothing to interrupt and the stun can be very helpful during the intermission phases. Diffuse lightning adds (particularly if you get Greater Diffuse Lightning in the second intermission) do a lot of damage, especially if they don't get CCed right when they spawn and are allowed to AOE the entire group when you stack up for the overcharge happening at the same time. Don't bother trying to CC the Overwhelming Power adds that spawn from bouncing bolts though, they are immune. Those you want to misdirect to a tank and tranquilizing shot when they put up their damage buff.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Do not use glyph of explosive trap. If you use it for the ball lightnings it is pretty good (for 25 man, not sure about 10).
    Activate it after the balls spawn for the initial damage hit from it? The dot from the trap isn't hitting for much on 25 for me, doesn't seem worth the GCD, unless you are getting the initial damage from the trap being activated on them and is that worth the loss gcd from getting another MS or cobra to MS again in?

  15. #15
    If you pre place your trap and get at least one tick on the balls it's a pretty big increase.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../31/?s=0&e=588


    That is my rank 45 on lei shen (was higher up, but got lowered down)

    5497.2 hits and 11253.5 crits
    5126.1 ticks and 11461.2 crits

    Remember, it ticks 10 times. So you are going to get a minimum of 56758.2 damage. My arcane shot did 54812.3 damage on average. So right there it's really close. You get around 8-9 balls on 25 man. 8-9 more ticks in addition to the minimum would put it at 56758.2 + 41008.8 = 97767 damage minimum. Which is way greater than one arcane shot without a focus cost.

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  16. #16
    Yeah you're right it's over an arcane shot, but if you're considering the glyph or not comparison there is on the damage gain vs utility during intermissions it can provide. Comp and the groups problem areas make that decision. More asking if you were pre-placing or placing it after the adds are gripped in.

  17. #17
    I was placing it right before the adds spawn. As you can see by my log if you go to buffs cast then go to debuffs, you will see my explosive trap. If you look at that, you can see it is effective. Plus in 25 man there is already enough stuns and whatever.

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  18. #18
    If there are any Worgen hunters out there still struggling on Helm, take up Pathfinding + Glyph of Aspect of the Cheetah. Then macro Cheetah and Darkflight together.

    Hit this on each helm and guaranteed you will stay in one spot each time it hits you. It also allows you to not needing to spin 180 and disengage!

    This has saved me on each Helm!

    (Thanks to Tehstool for the idea of Pathfinding + Cheetah glyph on one of his previous posts on another thread!)

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