Resil base 72% / battle fatigue 55%

[Siddown]

Vokal,

When they made their changes in 5.3 to scale PvE gear down and up the baseline resilience, they intentionally ignored World PvP. They did so because they said it was impossible to balance mainly due to the fact that the numbers will always be off in any real WPvP confrontation (plus there could be so real complications on outdoor fights like the Sha of Anger, etc.).

You can try and argue that the same imbalance will occur in a BG (and you have), but that's not nearly the same thing. If you leave two people to guard LM in AB and your opponent attack with five, that means your opponents are outnumbers somewhere else in the same restricted space because you both started with the same, small number of people. This same environment doesn't exist in WPvP because most servers have an imbalanced faction ratio, and CRZ only applies in pre-MOP zones where most World PvP consists of ganking.

So while you might argue that "because Ghostcrawler said so" doesn't prove my argument, I believe it does. When the developers of the game intentionally ignore one small part of PvP to concentrate on the much bigger aspects, Instanced PvP, that speak volumes. Their decision might be wrong, but it doesn't change why they made their decision. But again, I go back to the fact that they can't even balance around scaled down items in a 3v3 environment with certain abilities disabled, balancing for infinite combinations of people using all abilities, all world buffs and throw in outside mobs is much, much harder and I'm confused how you can argue otherwise.

[Decorpse]

Blizzard's order of importance seems to be 1) Arenas, 2) RBGs, 3) Random BGs, 4) WPvP with a fairly big gap between 3 and 4. You can yell at me all you want, but it won't change their position.

Really? I'd say it's more like 1) PVE 2)Pet battles 3)Brawlers Guild 4)PvP

[Siddown]

Really? I'd say it's more like 1) PVE 2)Pet battles 3)Brawlers Guild 4)PvP

Good point, make those 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 and 4.4 then.

[Vokal]

They did so because they said it was impossible to balance mainly due to the fact that the numbers will always be off in any real WPvP confrontation

What do you mean by the "numbers will always be off" here? And how does having pvp and pve gear be similar item levels worsen this? How does pvp gear being lower item lvl help this?

(plus there could be so real complications on outdoor fights like the Sha of Anger, etc.).

What complications would there be in outdoor bosses if pvp gear were the same item lvl as pve gear?

You can try and argue that the same imbalance will occur in a BG (and you have), but that's not nearly the same thing. If you leave two people to guard LM in AB and your opponent attack with five, that means your opponents are outnumbers somewhere else in the same restricted space because you both started with the same, small number of people.
This same environment doesn't exist in WPvP because most servers have an imbalanced faction ratio,

How does that create a scenario where it would be justified to have pve gear be higher item lvl than pvp gear? How does that help?

Faction imbalance and a scenario where pve gear has a higher item lvl out in the world are completely unrelated.

and CRZ only applies in pre-MOP zones where most World PvP consists of ganking.

You mean like Tol Barad and Wintergrasp?

And ganking has been around forever and is a separate issue. What kind of imbalance issue would possibly be upset if pve and pvp item levels were similar? They just dont seem related.

So while you might argue that "because Ghostcrawler said so" doesn't prove my argument, I believe it does.

Well you are free to believe what you like, but "he said so and I believe him" just isn't an argument on a discussion forum. It just isn't. I mean ghostcrawler isn't here posting anything, you are.

When the developers of the game intentionally ignore one small part of PvP to concentrate on the much bigger aspects, Instanced PvP, that speak volumes.

How is having pvp gear be the same item lvl as raid gear out in the world affect instanced pvp? Gear is scaled down in there anyway. They never said anything along the lines of this being done to balance instanced pvp.

balancing for infinite combinations of people using all abilities, all world buffs and throw in outside mobs is much, much harder and I'm confused how you can argue otherwise.

Perfect game balance both inside and outside of instanced pvp is a pipe dream. Nowhere have I stated that it is, could be or should be a possibility to balanced instanced or world pvp. Having be pvp gear be lower item lvl than raid gear out in the world doesn't help world pvp balance. There is no reason to have it setup like that if their goal is balanced world pvp.

But if their goal isn't balanced world pvp and they care little for it how does it matter if pvp gear were the same item lvl there?

[Siddown]

But if their goal isn't balanced world pvp and they care little for it how does it matter if pvp gear were the same item lvl there?

They have already stated this back during the release of 5.3. The goal is to balance Instance PvP at an iLevel that is lower than the LFR minimum so people don't PvP their way to the LFR gear limit. Personally, I think it's a bit stupid since LFR is just a zergfest anyway, but that is their logic.

Well you are free to believe what you like, but "he said so and I believe him" just isn't an argument on a discussion forum. It just isn't. I mean ghostcrawler isn't here posting anything, you are.

I'm simply stating what the lead developer for this game has stated, if you have a problem with his statements, take it up with him.

[Ssateneth]

people are saying 65% + 3.54% from gear before patch, and 72% + 3.54% from gear after patch. This is wrong. This would cause increasing returns on resilience, and I'm pretty sure it would still be adjusted so resilience from gear would be linear returns, which means that 3.54% in 5.3 will be 2.83% in 5.4. In both cases, you will still be taking ~10.11% less damage between with and without resilience on gear/gems.

[Frostbyte]

yea.. the thing that sucks for several classes incl. the ones we play is the 10% battle fatigue increase.. but obv that had to happen even though the change was targeted at healers i guess.

It was mainly aimed at Offspec healers tbh. but yeah. its good. looking forwards to it.. means no more 30 sec games. ppl have to work for the kills and not run in and tunnel thru 1 burst and dead.