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  1. #1

    Has anyone else moved on from their Warrior?

    Before I make this thread, I want to preface it with this: leave the trolling and ridiculous attitudes at the door. I am in no way shape or form attempting to say I am an authority on Warriors, this is merely my opinion. That's it. If you don't agree with me, reply with a suggestion or your opinion, not with how ignorant or stupid or lolbad you think I am.

    I have been playing World of Warcraft since 2006. In 2007, I made my warrior, who was at that time an alt. At the beginning of WOTLK, my warrior became my main, as my account got hacked and I lost my Paladin. I have been playing a Warrior at a high end level for around 6 years now. I feel that I am good judge of the class as a whole because of my experience and time played, as well as my raiding achievements gained with him. I have no pvp achievements gained with the warrior class.

    That being said, I have just decided to step away from the class at this point in time during MoP. Never before in my lengthy WoW career has the class been so..I don't know, I don't have the right words honestly. It's not hard, it's just RNG. It's not based on skill, at all. Especially my favorite spec, fury. Fury is nothing but an epic weapon and RNG procs for RB. It's stupid. I feel that NO class should be RNG based. A rotation should be a rotation for a reason, but basing something off a proc is ridiculous. Procs should be a bonus, not a crux.

    I look at my characters as a whole and I just am confused. Here are my numbers:

    Warrior - 502 ilvl, cannot maintain more than 75k DPS on a raid boss because I do not have epic weapons yet, and my attacks hit for nothing, and low crit.

    Shaman - 485 ilvl, can maintain 80k dps on a 10 minute dummy test, add 10k+ in a raid situation with buffs

    Paladin - 469 ilvl, can maintain 75k dps on dummy

    Anyone see the problem here? It's frustrating. EXTREMELY frustrating. I don't raid anymore, I quit mid Cata. But that shouldn't mean that the class is completely gimped unless I have ToT raid gear. Why can I do so much DPS on my other toons yet they have half his gear? That is a PROBLEM, a gaping one, and I do not understand why Blizzard does not remedy it. The Warrior class has always had horrid scaling issues (ArP in WOTLK, anyone?) and it's about time that blizzard came up with a new melee/warrior model so that this isn't the case anymore.

    As with virtually every other class, DPS should be about your rotation, and increased with gear, not simply gear no matter what. And Warriors are virtually the worst class effected by the scaling. So for now, I am playing my Ele shaman, having a great time healing on him as well, and tanking/dpsing on my Paladin. Whenever I log on my Warrior, I just get frustrated and ragequit. This shouldn't be so.

    I guess this hits close to home considering it's the class I have played for near 7 years now.
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  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Crisius's Avatar
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    I was "forced" to re-roll away from my 547 heroic geared warrior about 2 months back, to fill the vacant warlock spot in our raids. 10 itemlevels below my warrior, and already outdamaging it on a non-gimmick fight. Now, with close to the same gearlevel, even more so - this with even more mandatory raid utility and personal survivability than what a warrior can bring.
    Heck, my enhancement shaman, 20 itemlevels below my warrior, is bursting 6-700k dps on the pull assuming everything is being popped. Damage which over the course of a shorter fight easily averages out to far higher than what any similarly, or moderately better geared warrior could do.

    That being said, things are going to change next tier. Removal of large amounts of banked time on pull and haste double-dipping RPM trinkets is gonna be an insane nerf to pretty much all of the top classes at the moment, with exception of perhaps fire mages. For warriors it's going to be the other way around though, as base RPM procc-rates are getting buffed. Since we don't stack haste at all, it'll turn out (in most cases) to be a slight increase in trinket uptime overall. This in itself is a good thing.
    In addition to that, warriors are getting a good defensive overhaul, alongside a reduction on our stance cooldowns, effectively making defensive stance easier to use in a raid environment, and less penalising to your DPS.

    All in all, I don't think warrior is going to be performing badly in T15. On the contrary, with some number-tuning (which is incoming in a few weeks time), I think warriors are gonna be one of the stronger classes. Arms is especially going to shine through exceptional cleaving, and with the gear available next tier, fury scaling will hopefully again be pretty strong single-target.

  3. #3
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpsmash View Post

    That being said, things are going to change next tier. Removal of large amounts of banked time on pull and haste double-dipping RPM trinkets is gonna be an insane nerf to pretty much all of the top classes at the moment, with exception of perhaps fire mages. For warriors it's going to be the other way around though, as base RPM procc-rates are getting buffed. Since we don't stack haste at all, it'll turn out (in most cases) to be a slight increase in trinket uptime overall. This in itself is a good thing.
    In addition to that, warriors are getting a good defensive overhaul, alongside a reduction on our stance cooldowns, effectively making defensive stance easier to use in a raid environment, and less penalising to your DPS.

    All in all, I don't think warrior is going to be performing badly in T15. On the contrary, with some number-tuning (which is incoming in a few weeks time), I think warriors are gonna be one of the stronger classes. Arms is especially going to shine through exceptional cleaving, and with the gear available next tier, fury scaling will hopefully again be pretty strong single-target.
    Arms will not get anywhere without massive buffs. Cleave fights or otherwise, its scaling is quite simply: shit.
    RPPM changes may or may not change much for us. It will lower other classes, but I highly expect them to see damage buffs to compensate. Likewise, I could be wrong but I believe that the top two Warrior trinkets next tier are ICD, not RPPM anyways, so the difference for us is moot anyways.
    Lastly, I don't know what kool-aid your drinking from if you think we are getting a "good defensive overhaul". The Stance change is a joke, there's absolutely no point to it. The only benefit will be if you screw up and hit the wrong stance maybe; and the difference between 3 seconds and 1.5 on your dps is almost insignificant. Unless they expect us to constantly cycle stances, I honestly don't know why they added it. Infact the whole reason for making it 3sec in the first place was so that people couldn't constantly dance and had to "think" about which Stance to use (which worked out real well ).
    The Shield Wall change is a slight DPS increase, but more than that it was just a sorely needed quality of life change. Its only a defensive buff in so much that people will actually use it now, because it won't cause them to lose DPS.
    Call those defensive buffs if you want, but we really didn't see any Defensive buffs that put us near on par with other classes.

    Don't get me wrong, I still love the class, just really wish that we would get some worthwhile changes. Most of our talents are complete garbage, damage is at best mediocre and our rotations are full of design flaws (for both specs). GC tweets did indicate we would be seeing some DPS tuning love. I just hope it makes a difference.
    This whole expansion has been woefully short on Warrior love.
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2013-08-13 at 03:37 AM.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    At the start of BC. Does that count? lol
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  5. #5
    If by 'moved on' you mean getting benched from raiding and told to play a caster or become a social for the current tier then yes, absolutely.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Arms will not get anywhere without massive buffs. Cleave fights or otherwise, its scaling is quite simply: shit.
    RPPM changes may or may not change much for us. It will lower other classes, but I highly expect them to see damage buffs to compensate. Likewise, I could be wrong but I believe that the top two Warrior trinkets next tier are ICD, not RPPM anyways, so the difference for us is moot anyways.
    Lastly, I don't know what kool-aid your drinking from if you think we are getting a "good defensive overhaul". The Stance change is a joke, there's absolutely no point to it. The only benefit will be if you screw up and hit the wrong stance maybe; and the difference between 3 seconds and 1.5 on your dps is almost insignificant. Unless they expect us to constantly cycle stances, I honestly don't know why they added it. Infact the whole reason for making it 3sec in the first place was so that people couldn't constantly dance and had to "think" about which Stance to use (which worked out real well ).
    The Shield Wall change is a slight DPS increase, but more than that it was just a sorely needed quality of life change. Its only a defensive buff in so much that people will actually use it now, because it won't cause them to lose DPS.
    Call those defensive buffs if you want, but we really didn't see any Defensive buffs that put us near on par with other classes.

    Don't get me wrong, I still love the class, just really wish that we would get some worthwhile changes. Most of our talents are complete garbage, damage is at best mediocre and our rotations are full of design flaws (for both specs). GC tweets did indicate we would be seeing some DPS tuning love. I just hope it makes a difference.
    This whole expansion has been woefully short on Warrior love.
    That caught my eye, how is the Fury rotation full of design flaws, wondering what you're seeing there.

  7. #7
    I rolled a 2nd one.

  8. #8
    I'm not a raider, but my war is about the only character I DO play at the moment lol. I guess when you're not gunning for the top and worrying about min/max'ing, you stop to enjoy your characters more.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    I'm not a raider, but my war is about the only character I DO play at the moment lol. I guess when you're not gunning for the top and worrying about min/max'ing, you stop to enjoy your characters more.
    Very true indeed.

  10. #10
    I do miss the way Fury used to play, it was awesomely fun to me in Cataclysm, the burst was marvelous and the Mastery made me basically unkillable. Then they just...gutted the spec in favor of that damn BT/RB proc mess and shoved WS down our throats. Arms at least got cleaned up enough that it could take its place, but I miss dual-wielding greatswords.

  11. #11
    Brewmaster Tucci's Avatar
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    PvE is bad and PvP is even worse. It's depressing just how shit the class really is currently. It's also depressing that I saw this coming from miles away and would post about it before MoP even dropped. We become gods at the beginning of an xpac and then get nerfed to the bottom of the barrel for the rest of the xpac. Anyways, here's a copy/paste of my post from another thread.

    I'm actually surprised they haven't given us fire damage yet. No other melee uses fire damage besides enhancement and it's just barely. I say this only because at this point pretty much every melee does some sort of armor ignoring magic damage besides warriors. Fire would fit perfect because of the things they've recently implemented such as the "Burning Anger" glyph where we catch on fire when enraged, the glyph where we leave a blazing trail when we charge. So there's no saying that it's "unrealistic". It'd fit well with abilities like Dragon Roar.

    This would fix a TON of the issues warriors have had for a LONG time with armored targets. Warrior/Barbarian classes in other games are often seen dealing fire damage. I think it'd be a unique and well received thing to give to the class. They'd have to be smart about where to put the damage though, not like it's gonna be on every attack...or if it was on main attacks it could deal less damage the less rage we had and more damage the more rage we had or something like that. Just a thought.
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  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Luubox's Avatar
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    I stopped playing my warrior alt pretty much when the new rage system was implemented.. It felt to far away from the original warrior concept to me.

    I tried levelling it and gearing it a bit in some scenarios and what not.

    All my warrior does now is gather dust and do farm/blacksmith daily.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    I'm not a raider, but my war is about the only character I DO play at the moment lol. I guess when you're not gunning for the top and worrying about min/max'ing, you stop to enjoy your characters more.
    I can relate to this. I have not moved on from my warrior actually it was the complete opposite. I had a bunch of alts but I've decided to cut back since I don't want to level up/gear a lot of toons. The only thing I took into consideration is the fun factor. Specifically the rotation and the gameplay style of that toon and my warrior made the cut.

    The way I look at it Blizz is always balancing numbers and one day some will be at the bottom and another day some will be at the top. During DS raid arms was pretty up there.

    So why decide what toon to play and which not to play based on how good it does at topping the meters at a particular time.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    I'm not a raider, but my war is about the only character I DO play at the moment lol. I guess when you're not gunning for the top and worrying about min/max'ing, you stop to enjoy your characters more.
    If you enjoy the class and spec everything else doesnt matter IMO. I've invested alot of time, trying to figure out how push my Arms warrior to the max, and I always rank #1-3 on DPS charts, whether its normal raids, LFR, or #1 in plain 5-man heroics.
    Its correct that arms are simmed to be the worst performing spec in this xpac, but situational awareness and a lot of spec know-how do wonders.

    I've been in the same boat as the OP, switching between 3 or 4 other ALTS due to frustration of the warrior flaws, but when I finally realised that I only wanted to play my warrior, I started to perform better and better.

    Play what you enjoy, numbers are just numbers :-)

  15. #15
    I actually moved on from my mage to my warrior. The mage has been my main since BC so it's a nice change. I find it a bit more difficult to play and the dps is definitely lower, but more rewarding when you can consistently outperform other raiders. I recently joined a guild for heroic ToT and I was with them for 6 of their new heroic kills (9/13H currently) and it's been fun outperforming most of them with a lower ilvl. Not to mention, it's fun finally having raid wide defensive CDs. I'M HELPING!

  16. #16
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Arms will not get anywhere without massive buffs. Cleave fights or otherwise, its scaling is quite simply: shit.
    RPPM changes may or may not change much for us. It will lower other classes, but I highly expect them to see damage buffs to compensate. Likewise, I could be wrong but I believe that the top two Warrior trinkets next tier are ICD, not RPPM anyways, so the difference for us is moot anyways.
    Well I gave Arms a shot on our flex raid testing over the weekend. Its not entirely terrible. With the setbonus you get so much rage, than you slam alot more than before (always used slam during CS, when the Crit Trinket stacked high or I could whore rage in Zerker Stance). I actually also had to HS alot to avoid rage capping. The result was me being Top5 always on Single Target (Malkorok) with around 180k dps on average. And I was way ahead (10-15k) of everyone on Spoils due to Bladestorm/Deepwounds.

    Ofc that was with ilvl 530, but it was also without the incoming slam change. Overall it felt to me, that arms was much better than Fury in converting the extra Rage into more dmg - especially with the new slam. I dont see arms pulling ahead of Fury in high ilvl, but it will certainly be viable with the new set bonuses and when you can whore rage in Zerker Stance - even more when there is AoE involved.

  17. #17
    I only play it because i have so much time invested in it (since 2007) and hes the only one i have the patience to finish the legendary quest with, mainly because it's already in the Titan stuff part.

    I also find the crit dependancy unbelivably frustrating. I'm at ilvl 510 (only raids LFR), with around 31% crit buffed, with hit and expertise capped. Yet streaks of nothing but bt and hs are really common, because i end up not critting. And when I do, it's for shit damage like 80k lulz

    And of course, the fights being heavily ranged favored since at least the beggining of cataclysm doesn't help, either.
    Last edited by ohshift; 2013-08-13 at 10:00 AM.

  18. #18
    I currently decided to finish my monk and play him more than my warrior-monks are just fun and have some really great mobility and it feels like a monk. I've main a warrior since I first started playing this game in 2008. I've seen the changes and tried them out-I am by no means an expert warrior or even one of these highly skilled people, go on hate me because I am a casual....darn education taking my time What's been killing me with my warrior is just that it doesn't feel like a warrior. Arms has been my favorite spec but god it feels like shit; when I compare this to my monk rotation it really feels like crap. I switch to my warrior mostly to finish the legendary quest and blacksmithing/mining to get some profit. I do miss the cool interaction of TfB with heroic strike-it made heroic strike feel heroic. The current one in place is crap and I've been slamming more than using the OP charges because it just feels awful.
    I will say I still love charge and being able to use that ability is a beautiful thing and makes me like my warrior when I get on him. Once I start doing raids and stuff I just feel sad.

  19. #19
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    At the start of BC. Does that count? lol
    Ha me too xD

  20. #20
    Played mine since release, can't envisage myself dumping it now. I can't remember the last time I DPS'd in a raid environment, probably a few months back in WotLK and Vanilla in prot gear (lol) as 31/5/15 to pick up the mob after the MT dropped dead so I probably don't have as many issues as a lot of others do regarding DPS.

    I am thankful the class has evolved though and finally dropped most of the reliance on macros.
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