Why Fire SEEMS so good this tier

[Skarssen]

Fire seems so good because it is so good. I know the grass always looks greener from the other side, but you should try playing a DPS DK or warrior before you start complaining about your class in PVE.

[Polarthief]

Fire seems so good because it is so good. I know the grass always looks greener from the other side, but you should try playing a DPS DK or warrior before you start complaining about your class in PVE.

Name me one fight with 0 cleave and 0 damage buffs that Fire does good on.

PS: Pulling up T14 bosses doesn't count as top parses were locked once 5.1 went live to nerf it.

Fact of the matter is they can't keep the Fire contained. Time to extinguish and relight it with an overhaul.

[Deleted]

I think Combustion should be an important part of the Mage's DPS... its the only DMG-CD thats needs lots of preparation and in the end also some skill. But in the end good mages would do too much DMG with it especially on Cleave fights.

Imo Combustion-Cleave needs a rework and is the real problem.

Something like:
When you hit Inferno Blast a Copy of your Combustion DMG is made and split up among ALL targets in 10y Range. The DMG cannot exceed 50% of the original Combustion on a Single target.
For example: Your Combustion is ticking for 100k on your Maintarget, you spread it on 10 targets and it will tick for 10k on each target (and still for 100k on Maintarget).
Or: Combustion is ticking for 100k on Maintarget, spread to one additional target on which it is ticking for 50k (because the copied Combustion can only tick for 50% of the original on a single target).

This would make it viable for AoE again while nerfing the cleave-part and singletarget stays the same.

[Deleted]

Fire seems so good because it is so good. I know the grass always looks greener from the other side, but you should try playing a DPS DK or warrior before you start complaining about your class in PVE.

Yes, melee are behind this expansion (except, perhaps, Rogues), but this isn't the topic at hand. Please deal with that on your own forum.

Imagine they nerfed Warrior base damage because of Bladestorm on bats on Tortos, and buffed Rogue's poison damage because FoK didn't hit hard enough. That is the Mage/Lock comparison we are dealing with here (it's late, excuse the shitty analogy).

[Filipse]

Mage ingeneral on it's whole in PVE (though arcane topping) isnt realy a joke or the likes to begin with as of currently the listing of
TOP-DPS in the game is currently.

Acording to Noxxic.com (BIS gears)
#1Arcane 261,726 DPS 100%
#2Fire 261,404 DPS 99.88%
#3Frost 243,803 DPS 93.15%
#4Enhancement 241,316 DPS 92.2%
#5Windwalker 1h 233,621 DPS

#4Enchancement get's nailed hard with the nerf-bat next patch on themselves acording to
last released (here on MMO patchnotes), seeing as they nerf both primary-damage abilities (stormstrike/lavalash by
quite overkill ammounts), so they wont without a doubt stay up there which is funny since Mage is still doing a whole
lot more on the Fire/Arcane parts, #5Windwalker Monk is untouched pretty much, so well in the end Mage on all
three speccs will most
likely remain on the top 5 dps list as a whole anyways.

As for Enchancement's part it's basicaly at the level where a SINGLE SLAM from an Arm's
warrior (buffed to 330% wepdmg+ 4,937) will overdo the stormstrike and lavalash (notice ss and ll has cooldowns whilst slam does not)

So truly you as a Mage should be happy Combustion is the only part that actualy changes for you as a mage
in total, and frankly your DPS wont drop that much anyhow.

[Polarthief]

Mage ingeneral on it's whole in PVE (though arcane topping) isnt realy a joke or the likes to begin with as of currently the listing of
TOP-DPS in the game is currently.

You linked Noxxic. I'm already done with your post.

If you want to have an actual argument with actual data, feel free to post it.

If you're going to link the worst website to date for WoW data, you're going to get laughed at.

[Kenbud]

Mage ingeneral on it's whole in PVE (though arcane topping) isnt realy a joke or the likes to begin with as of currently the listing of
TOP-DPS in the game is currently.


#4Enchancement get's nailed hard with the nerf-bat next patch on themselves acording to
last released (here on MMO patchnotes), seeing as they nerf both primary-damage abilities (stormstrike/lavalash by
quite overkill ammounts), so they wont without a doubt stay up there which is funny since Mage is still doing a whole
lot more on the Fire/Arcane parts, #5Windwalker Monk is untouched pretty much, so well in the end Mage on all
three speccs will most
likely remain on the top 5 dps list as a whole anyways.

As for Enchancement's part it's basicaly at the level where a SINGLE SLAM from an Arm's
warrior (buffed to 330% wepdmg+ 4,937) will overdo the stormstrike and lavalash (notice ss and ll has cooldowns whilst slam does not)

So truly you as a Mage should be happy Combustion is the only part that actualy changes for you as a mage
in total, and frankly your DPS wont drop that much anyhow.

Did you really just quote Noxxic as anything other then to show what complete crap it is? And aslo using simdps like it means anything? Mind that Mage hate for a second and use real data so you don't instantly loose all credibility in a discussion.

[crysie]

Anyone who links raidbots or noxxic pretty much loses my interest. I think they just like to post it to fuel the anti-mage hysteria and lobby for their class is UP -.-

[Karon]

Anyone who links raidbots or noxxic pretty much loses my interest. I think they just like to post it to fuel the anti-mage hysteria and lobby for their class is UP -.-

don't see why it wouldn't be ok to post Raidbots 25HC all parses average, those numbers are taken from logs and not from theoretical simdps calculations, or is there any reason behind all this raidbots hate? (I could understand if someone used the top 100 parses to cry for RNG class nerfs)

[Deleted]

Slightly off topic but could someone please concisely explain why Raidbots is just as bad as quoting Noxxic (or why Raidbots quoting is bad at all)? I am good with maths/statistics so use your fancy words ;P

[Polarthief]

don't see why it wouldn't be ok to post Raidbots 25HC all parses average, those numbers are taken from logs and not from theoretical simdps calculations, or is there any reason behind all this raidbots hate? (I could understand if someone used the top 100 parses to cry for RNG class nerfs)

Noxxic uses parses? Now you're just trying to make people laugh.

Slightly off topic but could someone please concisely explain why Raidbots is just as bad as quoting Noxxic (or why Raidbots quoting is bad at all)? I am good with maths/statistics so use your fancy words ;P

I wasn't aware quoting Raidbots is bad; yeah if you post TOP parses, then you're a fucking moron (News Flash: Fire is EXPECTED to be #1 on Top parses because Top parses = "in a perfect RNG world that almost never exists"). If you post average parses but understand why they are how they are (which is what I broke down for everyone) then it's fine. If you look at logs and say "MAGES ARE OP CUZ THEY ARE HIGH ON AVERAGE EVERY FIGHT", then it's also not okay, unless you're looking at a no-buffs fight because everyone scales differently (besides Megaera, Lei Shen or Durumu [Normal only] is the closest we'll get to an ACTUAL fight that's good to measure ST DPS by).

This tier simply had almost every fight tipping in Fire's favor due to damage buffs or cleave. Of course we're going to be called OP.



TL;DR: Noxxic is auto bad because their site is fucking retarded and gives false information, so assume everything on there is bullshit. Raidbots, if you understand why average parses are what they are (e.g., Fire being high due to Cleave/Damage buffs on just about every fucking fight), then they're fine to link. Don't blindly link overall/average parses w/o understanding them and NEVER link top parses.

[Karon]

Noxxic uses parses? Now you're just trying to make people laugh.

Uh, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Polarthief]

Uh, what the fuck are you talking about?

Sorry, I don't keep up with that garbage site. If they actually swapped to using something SLIGHTLY more useful, then my mistake.

Still going to laugh because people think Noxxic is actually worth a damn.

[Karon]

Sorry, I don't keep up with that garbage site. If they actually swapped to using something SLIGHTLY more useful, then my mistake.

Still going to laugh because people think Noxxic is actually worth a damn.

I asked why people hate Raidbots, not Noxxic.

Or do both sides belong to the same guy?

[Polarthief]

I asked why people hate Raidbots, not Noxxic.

Or do both sides belong to the same guy?

Oh, I thought you meant... ... I don't even know anymore. o-o

Just read the posts and you'll see the confusion too. >_>;

[Deleted]

Raidbots is an interesting one,

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...14/60/default/ shows Arcane has the top median parse but has a low number of parses so it is 'underplayed'

The same data interestingly shows that the lowest standard deviations of all on Heroic fights are from fire mages ! This is the complete opposite to 'perception' !

[Karon]

Oh, I thought you meant... ... I don't even know anymore. o-o

You are not the only one :P

[reflection]

I personally like that they take the power out of combustion. Cause it's only those 20-30 seconds of a complete fight that decide if you are doing good or crap DPS. On the other hand the Fire rotation is even more boring now and you don't have CDs.

Gosh I hate those patches -.- you never know which stat you should go for for the next patch.

[Karon]

I personally like that they take the power out of combustion. Cause it's only those 20-30 seconds of a complete fight that decide if you are doing good or crap DPS. On the other hand the Fire rotation is even more boring now and you don't have CDs.

Gosh I hate those patches -.- you never know which stat you should go for for the next patch.

Nerf Combustion but add some kind of CD, I don't know, something like increased haste or so, I'm not creative enough to think about something like CDs^^

But it would remove the absolute need to have an perfect combustion, and low geared fire Mages could still make some damage.

[Hyrican]

Name me one fight with 0 cleave and 0 damage buffs that Fire does good on.

PS: Pulling up T14 bosses doesn't count as top parses were locked once 5.1 went live to nerf it.

Fact of the matter is they can't keep the Fire contained. Time to extinguish and relight it with an overhaul.

Well the fact of the matter is, fire is so good because you have a hard time finding a raidboss where you don't get to profit on any cleave or damage buff mechanic...

What does single target matter or the one boss in 10 that punish casters a little in comparison to melee... if you have almost no raidboss where this is the case...

It is either bad encounter design, because blizzard is unable to do a boss strategy without involving relevant adds or damage buffs/debuffs, or it is bad at class balancing when dotters and cleavers profit greatly from their abilities on most raidbosses without giving every class a comparable skill to profit from.

So yeah, to nerf cleave and dot mechanics is one way... but this only makes sense if the nerf is to the strongest skills/classes which do absurdly more damage than the others (in these kind of situations).

Blizzard still believes, not every class should do equal dps in every situation you encounter in a raid... so it should be expected cleave classes would do worse on single target... but be real, this is seldom really the case... bulk of the pack single target and only number one during cleave is a great result for a class this content around...