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  1. #181
    Reforge plots.
    Omnipotent WCL || Omnipotent Site || Stream: 5-9pm PST Tues/Wed/Thurs || Worst Btag Ever: Slenderman#1355

  2. #182
    Haste is always over valued because of shot sifting. The reason haste was so valuable last patch was because of the rppm and how haste affected it. Now, haste only affects certain rrpm functions. Haste is still a very good stat, but it is not as good as crit.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne13 View Post
    Haste is always over valued because of shot sifting. The reason haste was so valuable last patch was because of the rppm and how haste affected it. Now, haste only affects certain rrpm functions. Haste is still a very good stat, but it is not as good as crit.
    What you're saying might make sense in your head, but just because something makes sense doesn't mean it's right. Stat weights are something that have to be determined by math to give you an accurate idea of what's going on.

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure that FD gives the shot shifting warning in the context of FD's limitations, not as a general statement about the value of the stat. It means that FD can give really random values for haste depending on the initial conditions. It might help to have a more in-depth explanation (on the FD page) of what it really means so people don't get the wrong idea (me included, in case I'm talking out of my ass). I'm pretty sure it's only used in the context of FD and formulation, and that in a simulation or a real scenario it's not an actual thing (except in rare circumstances).
    Last edited by Kennyloggins; 2013-09-14 at 05:16 PM.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne13 View Post
    Haste is always over valued because of shot sifting. The reason haste was so valuable last patch was because of the rppm and how haste affected it. Now, haste only affects certain rrpm functions. Haste is still a very good stat, but it is not as good as crit.
    SimCraft doesn't have shot shifting issues which is the reason we use it for stat weights. Everything else you posted is just random facts that have no values in them. You can go ahead and list why Mastery, Crit and Haste all have their strong points but we're talking about math here, nothing else.

    Here is a simple answer to what secondary stat is best this tier, since people just want to post stupid crap and ignore all common sense that a few of us in here try to teach. I even wrote it in all caps since it will likely just get ignored and have another 10 pages after it of people posting their FD stat weights then trying to convince every one else that they are correct because they said so:

    SIMCRAFT WILL GIVE YOU ACCURATE STAT WEIGHTS BASED ON THE EXACT GEAR YOUR CHARACTER IS IN. DUE TO ALL 3 SECONDARY STATS BEING SO CLOSE IN VALUE IT IS BOUND TO CHANGE DEPENDING ON WHAT EXACT PIECES OF GEAR YOU HAVE.

  5. #185
    I'm pretty sure simc still thinks there are dire beast breakpoints, so you'll want to understand where those breakpoints are located and what it means for stat weights in general. My understanding is that haste is actually slightly undervalued (in simc) in general for that reason.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    I'm not trying to convince anyone with my stats. I just want a clarification, so when I reforge, do I put haste ever so slightly above crit and ever so slightly above mast with haste=3.52, crit=3.26, mast=3.08? In all honesty, I think it just comes down to playing-_-, getting the reforges right is pretty minor atm I think.
    yeah reforging has never really made a huge difference, but it doesn't mean you should ignore it. Some people just dedicate way too much of their limited mental resources towards min/maxing reforging and gear. We're human, after a certain point you should probably focus on more important things (like staying mentally sane).

    The reason people recommend reforge plots is that stats are dependent on each other, and a lot of times going one stat will make the other stat significantly better, so you're stuck bouncing around and never get the optimal reforge (but who knows if it's really optimal? with BM it's usually within the margin of error).

    The problem is reforge plots take a looooooot longer to generate. I hope you have something to do in your spare time.
    Last edited by Kennyloggins; 2013-09-14 at 05:24 PM.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    yeah reforging has never really made a huge difference

    The reason people recommend reforge plots is that stats are dependent on each other, and a lot of times going one stat will make the other stat significantly better, so you're stuck bouncing around and never get the optimal reforge (and who knows if it's really optimal? with BM it's usually within the margin of error).

    The problem is reforge plots take a looooooot longer to generate. I hope you have something to do in your spare time.
    Lol, kk thanks.
    <Guiles Theme Song> @ Magtheridon-US Horde 25-man, SoO-14/14H US#29, currently recruiting all
    Website: http://www.guilesthemesong.wowlaunch.com
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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    yeah reforging has never really made a huge difference, but it doesn't mean you should ignore it. Some people just dedicate way too much of their limited mental resources towards min/maxing reforging and gear. We're human, after a certain point you should probably focus on more important things (like staying mentally sane).

    The reason people recommend reforge plots is that stats are dependent on each other, and a lot of times going one stat will make the other stat significantly better, so you're stuck bouncing around and never get the optimal reforge (but who knows if it's really optimal? with BM it's usually within the margin of error).

    The problem is reforge plots take a looooooot longer to generate. I hope you have something to do in your spare time.

    why haven't you been raiding.

  9. #189

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    because job
    so you are saying you are not a machine and have an actual life outside of your hunter?

    i do not understand.

  11. #191
    Any plans to return in 6.0 Kenny? Or are you permanently out of the game now
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
    i7-3930k @ 4.6 | Sabertooth X79 | 32GB DDR3-1600 | GTX-680 Jetstream SLI | TX950W

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    I'm pretty sure simc still thinks there are dire beast breakpoints, so you'll want to understand where those breakpoints are located and what it means for stat weights in general. My understanding is that haste is actually slightly undervalued (in simc) in general for that reason.
    Not true for a while now though that is how it once was. simc properly does handle Dire Beast and Haste as per my latest understanding of the actual behavior in-game (it gives an extra swing sometimes, proportional to your haste speeding it up to the next swing). For example, if you are halfway between swing breakpoints, 50% of the time you get an extra swing. If you are 95% of the way to the next swing, you get an extra swing 95% of the time. I added this myself back in February.

    AFAIK there are no Haste inaccuracies (either plus or minus) in simc for Hunters.
    Valen - Temerity of Windrunner (25H US #19) - always recruiting!

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Valen View Post
    Not true for a while now though that is how it once was. simc properly does handle Dire Beast and Haste as per my latest understanding of the actual behavior in-game (it gives an extra swing sometimes, proportional to your haste speeding it up to the next swing). For example, if you are halfway between swing breakpoints, 50% of the time you get an extra swing. If you are 95% of the way to the next swing, you get an extra swing 95% of the time. I added this myself back in February.

    AFAIK there are no Haste inaccuracies (either plus or minus) in simc for Hunters.
    You appear to be correct, I made that post because I swear I noticed weird behavior around certain haste levels, but I just checked again and it appears I'm wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Dela2k10 View Post
    Any plans to return in 6.0 Kenny? Or are you permanently out of the game now
    Well right now I can barely stay awake up until 8 pm before I get exhausted, but we'll see
    Last edited by Kennyloggins; 2013-09-15 at 12:24 AM.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  14. #194
    brb getting some tea

  15. #195
    So where are the DB breakpoints for haste for the extra swing(s)? Cus I guess it'll be like mastery, every point between the extra swings are wasted for it, isn't it?

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by urgebear View Post
    So where are the DB breakpoints for haste for the extra swing(s)? Cus I guess it'll be like mastery, every point between the extra swings are wasted for it, isn't it?
    i dont even

  17. #197
    Here's my weights, armory in sig:
    50k Iterations

    SV-Blink-Thrill- 276081 dps


    BM-Blink-Thrill - 282568 dps


    However - I was simming different combinations of boots, bracers, and both together, and for BM every combination yielded a different top stat. Crit remained miles ahead for SV throughout
    Last edited by Dela2k10; 2013-09-15 at 01:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhazrun View Post
    You know how people talk about how you could just make a piece of rock with a billion health and damage and call it "hard"?

    Ra-den is what you get when a designer thinks that's actually a really good idea.
    i7-3930k @ 4.6 | Sabertooth X79 | 32GB DDR3-1600 | GTX-680 Jetstream SLI | TX950W

  18. #198
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Crit is head because BM mastery is way superior to SV and BM scales "well" with Haste because of your pet's auto attacks/bite are FAR stronger than SV.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by urgebear View Post
    So where are the DB breakpoints for haste for the extra swing(s)? Cus I guess it'll be like mastery, every point between the extra swings are wasted for it, isn't it?
    It's not that easy, as someone pointed out there are more things that scale well with haste for Beast Mastery. On top of that due to delays and such haste breakpoints don't guarantee additional Dire Beast attacks. There used to be a handy chart somewhere where you could see what amount of haste had a certain percentage chance to give Dire Beast another attack.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Azureflame, Incinerator, Champion Legionnaire, versatile mighty infusions.

  20. #200
    kennyloggins dropping knowledge itt

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