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  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeherah View Post
    As a programmer "broken" has a more specific meaning than I think you were going for there My site is definitely not ideal for stat weights due to the limitations of the tool. Simulationcraft can do a better job with it, although you have to know what you're doing to get good results. You would want to run it yourself with your own configuration options instead of relying on the public profiles that get posted. It has a lot of useful features but it's definitely more of a power user tool.
    How reliable is SimCraft at determining proper stat weights for us Hunters? We still seem to be fairly clueless about stat weights for this patch, SimC is saying "Mastery!!" but general sense says Crit = Haste > Mastery for BM

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    How reliable is SimCraft at determining proper stat weights for us Hunters? We still seem to be fairly clueless about stat weights for this patch, SimC is saying "Mastery!!" but general sense says Crit = Haste > Mastery for BM
    Hunters secondaries are skewing from individual simcraft results because it varies based on the amount of each stat you have. Lets say you have 12k haste 9k crit and 3k mastery, at this point mastery if probably your best stat since you have so little of it. It's not necessarily wrong, it just doesn't tell you how much mastery you need for it to not be the best anymore, which is where everyone is drawing false conclusions.

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  3. #163
    mastery seems really good this patch

  4. #164
    My results using 50k iterations in simulationcraft with my gear (557 ilvl, 2 set t16 and 2 set t15 + cd reducing trinket).

    BM: Crit -> Haste -> Mastery, haste and crit are very close and jump ahead of eachother all the time now when getting so many new items.
    Tier 4: ToTH comes out 460 dps over of DB which is pretty much nothing, personally im sticking with DB.
    Tier 5: aMoC comes out 2.6k dps over BS, there will be some switching during raids since BS is better on all the clusterfuck fights like Galakrak and Spoils where you cant have a 100% uptime on aMoC.

    SV: Crit -> Haste -> Mastery.
    Tier 4: ToTH is a clear winner with 4.5k+ dps over fervor thanks to the t16 2 set.
    Tier 5: aMoC is also a clear winner with 7.3k dps over BS.

  5. #165
    if TotH == DB, I seriously see no point into going DB. If target is moving, DB might drop one / two attacks and in AoE / cleave situations it's useless. Not to mention if you need to target switch.

    Even with aMoC pulling 2.6k (1-1.5% DPS), I would go for BS all the time because a)AoE / cleave b) target switching c) 60 focus

  6. #166
    Previous results were showing AMoC only to be a couple hundred dps ahead.. being 2.6k dps ahead of DB esp as BM surprises me.. what was the fight length set to ?

  7. #167
    Blademaster Trictagon's Avatar
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    Just some testing i did, you should try out ToTH when you get 2p. Previously ToTH would only essentially save you focus, but now those extra arcane shots also lead to increased rapid fire uptime because of 2p. Also, ToTH can now obviously proc while the buff is already up from arcane shot since arcane shot costs over 20 focus (except for when BW is up, then its focus cost goes down to 0).

    It makes the BM playstyle somewhat weird, trying to sit at 30-60 focus at all times, and cobra shotting to refresh SS when it has 1s~ left at times, but its quite a large dps increase due to how well it synergizes with 2p.
    Last edited by Trictagon; 2013-09-13 at 09:08 PM.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Trictagon View Post
    but its quite a large dps increase due to how well it synergizes with 2p.
    Your definition of large is somewhat askew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    Previous results were showing AMoC only to be a couple hundred dps ahead.. being 2.6k dps ahead of DB esp as BM surprises me.. what was the fight length set to ?
    600s (10m).
    I tested it again but with 25k iterations and here's the exact results as BM (2 set + 2/2 CD reduction trinket) ->

    DB and BS: 260816.4 (Mastery 3.17 -> Haste 3.15 -> Crit 3.11)
    DB and aMoC: 263923.6 (Mastery 3.27 -> Crit 3.15 -> Haste 2.61)
    ToTH and BS: 261398.4 (Crit 3.09 -> Haste 3.00 -> Mastery 2.95)
    ToTH and aMoC: 263050.3 (Crit 3.09 -> Mastery 2.95 -> Haste 2.84)

  9. #169
    SimC is confusing me, anyone can shed some light on this?

    Reforged for Haste > Mastery > Crit, I sim it out and it says this: 249050 dps, Crit 3.42 > Haste 3.21 > Mastery 2.94
    Reforged for Crit > Haste > Mastery, again sim it out but get this: 249819 dps Haste 3.1 > Mastery 3.08 > Crit 3.06

    So what exactly does this mean? Does it mean that going for Crit > Haste > Mastery is better technically 800 dps ish more? Or should I swap to Haste > Mastery?
    I currently don't have 2 set T16 but I do have Assurance WF and both of these sims were done as BM.

    From everything I've been reading, the jist I have got is SV wants Crit > Haste and BM wants Haste > Mastery? If so, are there any special conditions that need to be satisfied i.e. at least 2 set T16? I've been sticking with Crit > Haste and it worked out fine for BM as well but genuinely have no idea as everything shifts so much.
    Last edited by Oumi; 2013-09-14 at 09:37 AM.

  10. #170
    Well for me with warforged cd reduction trinket stats are same like before patch 5.4. So seems like Haste > Crit > Mastery still with new trinkets.


    P.S. 25K iterations

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Oumi View Post
    SimC is confusing me, anyone can shed some light on this?

    Reforged for Haste > Mastery > Crit, I sim it out and it says this: 249050 dps, Crit 3.42 > Haste 3.21 > Mastery 2.94
    Reforged for Crit > Haste > Mastery, again sim it out but get this: 249819 dps Haste 3.1 > Mastery 3.08 > Crit 3.06

    So what exactly does this mean? Does it mean that going for Crit > Haste > Mastery is better technically 800 dps ish more? Or should I swap to Haste > Mastery?
    I currently don't have 2 set T16 but I do have Assurance WF and both of these sims were done as BM.

    From everything I've been reading, the jist I have got is SV wants Crit > Haste and BM wants Haste > Mastery? If so, are there any special conditions that need to be satisfied i.e. at least 2 set T16? I've been sticking with Crit > Haste and it worked out fine for BM as well but genuinely have no idea as everything shifts so much.
    It means the stats have varying values based on how much you have. Do not necessarily trust the stat scaling and use reforge plots.

    As someone else mentioned, having ~12k crit, 9k haste, and 3k mastery. Mastery's value is inflated because each point is influenced by the 12k crit and 9k haste. If you simply push everything into mastery, it's value begins to decrease as the synergy between them lessens.

    I'm not great at explaining, but it's something like that.

    For BM currently, crit and haste are pretty close in value. For Survival, crit triumphs over haste. To make it easier to switch between the specs, crit>haste is the way to go. If you plan on BM full time (or with MM offspec), haste>crit can work.
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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by furfmonkey View Post
    simulationcraft posts "optimal" numbers with hunters doing a
    perfect rotation never moving unrealistic numbers
    If you can't play the class properly you should probably learn to do that before you worry about minor stat weights. Also Hunters have the ability to do full DPS while moving.

  13. #173
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    If you can't play the class properly you should probably learn to do that before you worry about minor stat weights. Also Hunters have the ability to do full DPS while moving.
    Crappy attitude. There's a huge difference between playing a class properly, and executing a perfect "rotation" for 5 minutes.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Beace View Post
    Crappy attitude. There's a huge difference between playing a class properly, and executing a perfect "rotation" for 5 minutes.
    There actually isn't. You're just looking for an excuse for being bad.

  15. #175
    No one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. Especially on progression when you and 24 others are trying to learn a new fight.

  16. #176
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    There actually isn't. You're just looking for an excuse for being bad.
    Like I said, you got a crappy attitude. But what else is new.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by furfmonkey View Post
    simulationcraft posts "optimal" numbers with hunters doing a
    perfect rotation never moving unrealistic numbers
    How does moving matter?
    How does performing optimally undermine the relevance of the stat weights (also, Simc's default action priority list is not actually optimal)?
    If there is no other tool, how else are you going to determine what's better? Astrology? Tea leaves?
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  18. #178
    For me as BM, on femaledwarf, it's crit=8.9, haste=4.8, mast=2.9, or something like that. On Reforegelite, I set crit, haste, and mast to 200, 140, and 120 respectively. Just tossing my numbers out there.
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  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by timoseewho View Post
    For me as BM, on femaledwarf, it's crit=8.9, haste=4.8, mast=2.9, or something like that. On Reforegelite, I set crit, haste, and mast to 200, 140, and 120 respectively. Just tossing my numbers out there.
    Why use stat weights from FD when the developer himself said SIMC is better in that aspect? Use FD for the functionality and reliability, but I don't know why people still think it produces better stat weights.
    Kennyloggins - im afk

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyloggins View Post
    Why use stat weights from FD when the developer himself said SIMC is better in that aspect? Use FD for the functionality and reliability, but I don't know why people still think it produces better stat weights.
    I'll give that a whirl too.

    So on simulationcraft, haste=3.52, crit=3.26, mast=3.08, I'm torn.
    Last edited by timoseewho; 2013-09-14 at 04:08 PM.
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