World of Warcraft: The Dark Below - Expansion Speculation; Zones, Dungeons, Raids

[Aeluron Lightsong]

No disrespect taken! I'm open to the fact it may be a hoax. But totally agree about the Tomb of Sargeras thing, seriously need to see that soon!

Ok then, since we're on the same page. What did you mean by Azshara incarnate? That caught my eye. Just naturally curious?

[Deleted]

Kul Tiras and Undermine should be included as zones.

[Enan1981]

:O Im so gonna read through all of this when I get home...!!!

[twh]

"Jinyu will NOT be a playable race unless Blizzard reinvent their models. They just night elves for heaven's sake. Murlocs will NOT be a playable race, they lack the intelligent and they are only loyal to the beasts of the deep."

Exactly. Also NAGAS shouldn't be playable, simply b/c they don't have legs.

[Tirilka]

The concept of Nyalotha always gave me shivers since the time I first discovered Puzzle-box of Yogg-Saron.
Also, I'd kill for a chance to go through Caverns of Time: Tomb of Sargeras with Illidan. And all Broken Isles. These levels were my absolute favorites in Warcraft 3. Ohh, how much I would give up for this..

[Obsolus]

Ok then, since we're on the same page. What did you mean by Azshara incarnate? That caught my eye. Just naturally curious?

Given the relationship between Azsh and N'z, I didn't want them both to be two separate, typical fights. The Queen Azshara fight at the end of Bastion of the Sea Witch is your standard, multi-phase with intermission phase fights like Lich King and Thunder King, where as the final fight of Ny'alotha is a little different.

As Azsh is so powerful, I didn't want her to simply be "killed" there and then, so her mangled corpse is recovered by the Faceless Ones and Bought to N'Zoth. Throughout the whole final raid, I think it would be cool to have this corrupt, zombiefied monstrosity of a Queen taunting you the whole way through. Instead of fighting N'Zoth by himself, you face him along with Azshara incarnate. After being "rejected" by Sargeras and given life by N'Zoth, she is fully affiliated with the Old God, understandably. Knowing that he is the source of all her power, she will do anything to protect her dark prince (As ugly as he may be).

The encounter could be designed in a million different ways, but I think it would start with the raid facing the monstrous Azshara once again for perhaps the first one or two phases, while fending off N'Zoth's annoying tentacles (Inb4 hentai jokes), as you typical find in a old god encounter. Later on in the fight, after being destroyed again, the team should face N'Zoth directly. Again, open to speculation how you'd like this to be done.

[Arbs]

Sorry OP, can't help but laugh that you jumped the gun and it turns out to be a hoax. Maybe we will see what everyone wants after all, the Legion theme.

Ahh we will find out next week at Gamescom.

[Yvaelle]

Verain and I had a pretty good debate over email when The Dark Below was first trademarked, I'll repost it since I think I did a pretty good job of describing my thoughts there

Since the D3 expac was put up as a page by Blizzard last night (“Reaper of Souls”) that is basically their way of saying “don’t confuse our IPs, here we’ll help”. Since this happened apparently by calling in their web team at like 10 PM or something, it seems like it was important to them.

So, World of Wacraft: The Dark Below is the next expac.

So, by RPG canon, the Dark Below is a place with demons and bad things. In game, we have two sources that it is a bad place, and one thing implies that it is related to old gods and such. Of course, both can be true, or neither: the area is pretty well unexplored.

At this point, a lot of speculation involves any or all of these:

1)- More faceless, along with underwater type creatures.
2)- Possible Naga. Azshara is still apparently out and about, and as such could be a final boss candidate, or a second in command to an old god.
3)- Demons that aren’t part of the burning crusade, or worse- are.


Mixes are certainly possible: for instance, if Azshara is allied to N’zoth or something, then that would explain her suddenly being a big threat.



I think Blizzard is thinking a bit bigger than that. Wherever we go won’t just be a room with lava, and it won’t just be a place that is water. They obviously won’t do an underwater expac all by itself, and the threats that we have so far don’t just imply a bunch of things in the water. Meanwhile, I don’t think it could just be a bunch of demons we haven’t heard of in a decade that happen to have their own agenda or something. It could be an ascendant old god all by itself- but an expac needs to be more than just that.



- -

I remain hopeful for a Demon Hunter, but I still think that could be the expac AFTER this one- just because they just introduced a new class, and while they have done a WAY better job than they did with the Death Knights (monks have some OP edges and many UP troughs, unlike DKs who had no meaningful weaknesses and three absolutely absurd mix and match specs), they still need to smooth the monk over and find out niches. Brewmasters seem to be comfortably overpowered as tanks- I would safely say that they are generally the best tank, as stagger is generally the best mechanic, and they share the “bear edge” of being able to dps quite meaningfully in the same gear. Mistweavers seem to stack acceptably well with each other, and are a very strong healer that is balanced wrong in some ways. Windwalkers have the hardest time finding a niche- windwalker competes directly with assassination, combat, mutilate, feral, and enhancement, and competes a bit less directly with frost, unholy, arms, fury, and retribution. This puts Blizzard in a real pickle, and it seems they are pushing windwalkers into having a very superior 2-3 target melee trick, plus good synergy with burst phases. But monks in general don’t have a thing they are known for- every attempt to add one has infuriated people, because the game really doesn’t need ring of peace, even if monks do, etc.

But, they are smoothing monks into place, and no one who switched to monk has regretted it yet- not even Aristari, whose old priest looks at her and whispers “beeeeetrrrrrayyyyyy arrrrrrr”. They’ll be reading to add a new class at some point, and I’m almost fully convinced it will be Demon Hunters- if not this expac, then in the next.


They have two archetypes called “Demon Hunter”. The first, that they WILL do, is the classic WCIII one. The second, that they might do, is the one from D3. This would allow them to finally put something out there that is agi ranged besides hunters, and it would be their first new ranged spec since vanilla (you could fairly call the lock specs redesigned, and shadow and arcane also have nothing in common with their vanilla versions, but these specs all existed- they just were different). The third spec would presumably be a tank spec, even though the game is mostly ok on tanks.

Why is it you think there are Demons in the Dark Below?

There are forgotten ones, nerubians possibly, and potentially naga - but no demons as far as I am aware.

http://wowpedia.org/Erudax - The Duke of Below

Ywaq maq oou; ywaq maq ssaggh. Yawq ma shg'fhn.
"They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle." This is untranslated in game, but the same text Herald Volazj says. Mindbender Ghur'sha also utters an abridged version of this line on death.

http://wowpedia.org/Ozumat - Fiend of the Dark Below

Affliation: Nazjatar (which some believe is the Naga name for the old god city of Ny'alotha, more on this later)




http://wowpedia.org/Warlord_Zon'ozz - General of N'zoth (an old god)

Vwyq agth sshoq'meg N'Zoth vra zz shfk qwor ga'halahs agthu. Uulg'ma, ag qam.
Once more shall the twisted flesh-banners of N'Zoth chitter and howl above the fly-blown corpse of this world. After millennia, we have returned
Gul'kafh an'qov N'Zoth.
Gaze into the heart of N'Zoth.




http://wowpedia.org/Yor%27sahj_the_Unsleeping

Shkul an'zig qvsakf KSSH'GA, ag'THYZAK agthu!
From its BLEAKEST DEPTHS, we RECLAIM this world!

KYTH ag'xig yyg'far IIQAATH ONGG!
SEE how we pour from the CURSED EARTH!

Iilth qi'uothk shn'ma yeh'glu Shath'Yar! H'IWN IILTH! [2]
You will drown in the blood of the Old Gods! ALL OF YOU!


http://wowpedia.org/Puzzle_Box_of_Yogg-Saron

At the bottom of the ocean even light must die...
The silent, sleeping, staring houses in the backwoods always dream... It would be merciful to tear them down...
In the land of Ny'alotha there is only sleep...
In the sleeping city of Ny'alotha walk only mad things.
Ny'alotha is a city of old, terrible, unnumbered crimes...
Y'knath k'th'rygg k'yi mrr'ungha gr'mula...
The drowned god's heart is black ice...
Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside.
In the sunken city, he lays dreaming.
The fish know all the secrets. They know the cold. They know the dark.
The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow.
Beneath the shadow of the darkened spire, there is no light, no mercy, only void, and the chaos within.
In the Sunken City, he lays dreaming...


The references to the giant rook are a source of controversy - some believe it is Karazhan: a large rook, a forest of dead trees, a large and unused cavern below it. Karazhan in lore is also a nexus for many ley lines in Azeroth, an old god in position there would potentially dominion over all magic: so it's a strategic spot for a master plan, and the previous tenant went insane (and in Azeroth, the chief cause of insanity is old god proximity).

Alternately, there a large, rook-shaped tower in north-western eastern kingdoms over The Whispering Woods. When the high elves first sailed up the eastern kingdoms in lore, they landed at what seemed like a nice forest - but then they all started mysteriously going insane and killing one another - those who fled traveled further north and founded Quel'thalas (blood elf capital). That implies that somewhere south along the coast is a seemingly nice forest which is uninhabited and drives people insane: the one that best fits the description by a mile is The Whispering Woods. In the centre of the Whispering Woods is an old-god sized ring of glowing mushrooms, with a patch of dead (or perhaps recently upturned) soil in the middle of it. It's only accessible by air, not a newbie zone or anything - and there is no content there - apart from a few frenzied bears and diseased deer. There are also 5 wisps which wander the woods, and about once an hour all assemble at the ring of mushrooms: but don't seem to do anything further.

Either are possible IMO.

Ny'alotha is a city of "mad things(people)", who commit old, terrible and unnumbered crimes. In Ny'alotha - "there is only sleep". Then you have the combination of "In the sunken city, he lays dreaming" and "the drowned god's heart is black ice", and "at the bottom of the ocean, even light must die". So, in Ny'alotha - which is possibly a sunken city - there is only sleep, and somewhere under the ocean there is a sleeping, drowned god: probably in Ny'alotha.

http://wowpedia.org/Ny'alotha

Ny'alotha is believed to be a physical place within Azeroth, but is also suggested - given all the sleep stuff - that it is related to the Emerald Nightmare. Remember that since the Naga are fallen Night Elves - any reference to sleeping naga should be read as you would references to 'sleep' amongst the night elves themselves: which pretty much always means the Emerald Dream / Nightmare.


"Y'Shaarj also mentions the forest during the Siege of Orgrimmar. When you'll walk among the black forest, you will see."

http://wowpedia.org/Y%27Shaarj

He is the 'progenitor' of the seven Sha primes.

http://wowpedia.org/File:Vault_of_Y%27Shaarj.jpg

We found his heart under Vale of Eternal Blossoms (Heroic Scenario), Garrosh is going to steal it and put it under his throne room in Orgrimmar.

Before your history began, our empire was vast. We shared this world with our sister kingdoms, Ahn'Qiraj and Azjol-Nerub.
Our Gods were many, and powerful. We mantid worshipped the seven heads of Y'shaarj[sic].
Great was the Old One, and terrible was His wrath. He consumed hope and begat despair; He inhaled courage and breathed fear.
When the usurpers came - the ones you call "Titans" - Y'shaarj was destroyed.
His last terrible breath has haunted this land ever since, but the shadows he left behind are mere whispers of his former glory.
I tell you now, because you have earned this warning.
Your gods are not our gods, outsider.
If the Old Ones ever return, we mantid will once again stand by their side.
The wisest among you will do the same.

So the Mantid claim they are bro's with the kingdoms of AQ and AN - they worship Y'Shaarj - and they will return to Y'Shaarj's aide as soon as he comes back: which is at the very end of Seige of Ogrimmar.

During the battle with Garrosh, Y'shaarj says the following things:

You will rest in Ny'alotha.
When you'll walk among the black forest, you will see.

And remember 'the black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside', that Yogg mentions? Seems cryptic - until you consider that Y'shaarj has seven heads, each with a single eye: seven eyes. Goats in Freudian-dream-interpretation-nonsense are symbols of vague and externalized threats, they may symbolize fathers, or sexual lechery (probably this one isn't useful). Black-ness is obviously a commonality with old gods / void / evil. So for all the talk of things dreaming, a black goat with seven eyes that watches you - is almost undoubtedly a reference to Y'Shaarj. Also note that that isn't Yogg Saron talking about Ny'alotha again - that's Y'shaarj: during the battle of Orgrimmar - he's referencing a sunken city which is very possibly Nazjatar (or something new, but still sunken).

Also:
Based off the "black goat with seven eyes" quote of the puzzle-box it is possible Y'Shaarj is a reference to H.P. Lovecraft's Shub-Niggurath, who was known as "The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young". However it is not completely certain if the goat is in fact Y'Shaarj.



So, to me - I see the following. The Mantid will probably respond to Garrosh, who will probably resurrect their god next tier. This could have repercussions for both Ahn'Qiraj and Azjol'Nerub. The Rook in the Woods stuff could be a reference to a Karazhan raid first tier again - possibly now with Old God buried underneath (Y'Shaarj?). Y'Shaarj seems to be more related to the woods, he's a goat - not a fish - and his possible Lovecraft inspiration is related to woods. So we have his heart, we're going to feed him during the final battle - he'll manifest somewhere else in Azeroth - the mantid will become excited.

Now we have to think about what the second and/or third raid tiers. The sunken city, Ny'alotha - and whoever sleeps down there (very probably N'zoth) - if it's Nazjatar - then we have a Naga raid. N'zoth is the old god responsible for the corruption of Deathwing - while this is never overtly stated - Warlord Zon'ozz is the General of N'zoth - that he brought a continent force to aide Deathwing is a pretty good indication who it was that was committing to Deathwing succeeding. Apart from all the references to Deathwing being corrupted, it's pretty obvious it's an old god that did it - when the final battle two battles consist entirely of tentacles.

From what we can generally kind of tell - Old God influence is like an airborne virus - C'thun corrupts anyone in range of him. The titans managed to contain Yogg Saron, but as soon as his glass skylight was shattered he managed (though still down in his room below) to alter the will of Titans up above him. We found the heart of Y'shaarj vaulted up below the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, and Garrosh removes it from the vault and brings it to Orgrimmar: it's exposed to the world now. Which probably means it can go anywhere.


Corrupted Deathwing sank into the ocean - what do you want to bet his corpse ended up near Ny'alotha? So N'zoth has probably been awake now for an expansion, building up and corrupting some Naga / Kraken while we've been off in Panda-land.

Also check out this post regarding the crypt under Karazhan:
" But one time while waiting for raid to begin in Karazhan i stumbled upon the HUGE crypt next t where he and his mother are supposedly buried.Anyway its big and creepy, if you manage to not get lost in the maze eventualy you stumble upon a dark room with hooks and chains adorned with upside down corpses hanging from the ceiling.

So i checked the map and realizing that this part of the crypt was a mere hundred meters distant from the Scythe of Elune mine and that remote church in Duskwood sent chills down my spine.If that place wasnt a home to some ancient evil embodied in dark riders harrasing Duskwood nothing was.

Anyways to get a better look i checked up wow map viewer and to my surprise this catacomb,elune goldmine , 2 dark altars in Blasted Lands and Zul Gurub form a tight triangle, each no more then maybe 200 meter away form eachother.

So ive started thinking, maybe there is an old god inside this triangle? Then maybe those crypts and possibly the mine in Duskwood were built to reach him?This would also explain the corruption of Zul Gurub a bit more."

They always had much bigger plans for Karazhan than they originally implemented - from the crypts they were making but weren't accessible in the final build, to the portal entrance and griffon landing spot at the top of the tower that isn't accessible and isnt connected to anything. Karazhan is clearly a more important and unfinished part of the Azeroth lore - something more than Medivh happened there.

With that said, I really don't want to rule out the Whispering Woods up by Gilneas - it screams Old God.


In all this, I see no connection whatsoever to the Burning Legion - or Demons - and therefore I doubt we'll see a Demon Hunter class. If that's true though, the Next expansion almost has to be Burning Legion / Sargeras + Demon Hunter class: but not yet.

Oh I should mention one more thing - The Forgotten Ones and the Nerubians hate one another. The Forgotten worship N'zoth, while the Mantid worships Y'Shaarj - and it is unclear who the Nerubians prefer. Potentially they are into Yogg Saron, given their uprising when Yogg got loose - or potentially since they are bros with the Mantid - they worship Y'shaarj. Since we know that Ahn'Qiraj worships C'thun - it seems most likely that the Nerubians prefer Yogg Saron - and that while C'thun, Y'shaarj, and Yogg Saron all tolerate one another somewhat: N'zoth is a different breed of old god who wars with all three of them.

I'm not sure where the sticks will fall - but this could potentially pit N'zoth(Forgotten+Naga) and the Twilight Dragonflight (via Deathwing) against C'thun(AQ), Y'shaarj(Mantid), and Saron(Nerubians).

If in all this corruption some of the orcs remain loyal to Y'shaarj - that could also be an issue.

The resulting horde of next expansion will almost assuredly be under Vol'jin and won't openly hate the Alliance anymore: but an orcish faction could split away here.

It's possible, although somewhat unlikely - that all the Old Gods are rising here: from the Dark Below. Since:

"They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle."

Is a reference to the Old Gods, collectively (at least I'm pretty sure). We can't truly kill them, and they don't live (hence all the referencing to not breathing).

The giant rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow.

Things which are in the circle of life breathe - plants and animals all breathe - but since Old Gods cannot die, and do not live - they presumably do not breathe (despite having maws) - presumably they create their physical forms to inspire fear / terror, not for actual useful function / processing of food / seeing in useful directions, etc. As an organism, old gods are terribly designed, is what I'm saying: but they aren't organic.

Edit: Oh! Another thing to add.

Since we're obviously heavily into Cthulhu mythology here - it's important to point out that while Ny'Alotha is a reference to (Nyarlathotep), Cthulhu himself does not rest in that city, but in Rl'yeh, a sunken city.

So the drowned, sleeping god somewhere under the ocean - may not be in the Ny'alotha the underwater, sleeping city: there could be two significant underwater areas involved here.


Edit 2:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Nerubian suggests that the Nerubians denounce any faith in the old gods, who they believe will ultimately destroy the world - they are predators who prey upon the races of Azeroth, and prey should not worship its predator. Interesting - so they may sit this one out.

Edit 3:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Rift_(Maelstrom)

Suggests that Nazjatar, which is probably Ny'alotha - is already stated as being the prison of N'zoth - so that answers Edit 1. Since he is the creator of the Emerald Nightmare, it seems like-ish to me that this will be tied into this expansion.

[Obsolus]

The concept of Nyalotha always gave me shivers since the time I first discovered Puzzle-box of Yogg-Saron.
Also, I'd kill for a chance to go through Caverns of Time: Tomb of Sargeras with Illidan. And all Broken Isles. These levels were my absolute favorites in Warcraft 3. Ohh, how much I would give up for this..

I couldn't agree more! I have been obsessed with the topic ever since. When I heard the Yar'shaarj quotes I squeeled like a girl.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I forgot. One thing I disagree with your concept. You don't give us a fight with a Kraken. No Ozumat from ToTides doesn't count!

[Shampro]

I forgot. One thing I disagree with your concept. You don't give us a fight with a Kraken. No Ozumat from ToTides doesn't count!

He did, you fight Ozumat, which is the Kraken of Krakens.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

He did, you fight Ozumat, which is the Kraken of Kranens.

I said it doesn't count. I want to actually fight one in the Sea and what not. Not like iN Throne of Tides.

[Obsolus]

I forgot. One thing I disagree with your concept. You don't give us a fight with a Kraken. No Ozumat from ToTides doesn't count!

Ozumat is a Kraken.

EDIT: Ohh, so you want to fight one actually IN the ocean? I guess that would mean a Kraken world boss in the Drowned Reaches.

[Ethas]

If that all will be so simple, we will see another boring Cataclysm incarnation. Which brought great disaster to the game.

[Skippy88]

Real or not I enjoyed reading this. One of my first thoughts was a "Journey To The Centre Of The Earth" type expansion. I guess we will all find out in a couple of months.

[Theendgamelv3]

Wow that is really plausible. I could easily see something like that in a South Seas type expansion.

[Warrada]

People always use the argument that Naga dont have legs to justify the fact that they cant be a playable race... Well, after all these years of Wow, and all the the things Blizzard already did to the Lore of the game, is that hard to think a way to make them a viable race?

First thought that come to mind:

Since the Naga army spent so much years preparing for an invasion, and of course they're aware that the land is their weakness, of course they would try to figure out a way to allow them to enter deep on land to conquer and destroy, so they wouldnt be restricted to water. What kind of invasion would be that? "THE SHORES ARE OURS!! Muahahaha!!"

So, their sorceress spent years researching a way, a spell, a potion, an enchant, something like that to let them stay longer on earth. Profit! Naga now have a racial skill, similar to Worgen's, that shapeshifts them to a 'leged' form that doesnt make them weak on land, and can also shapeshift them back to the 'tailed' form that also grants them + 100% swim speed on water and while this tailed form have infinite duration on water, on land it lasts for only 1 minute.

[Magemaer]

Awesome ideas here. Can't wait for Azshara's expansion.

[Yvaelle]

People always use the argument that Naga dont have legs to justify the fact that they cant be a playable race... Well, after all these years of Wow, and all the the things Blizzard already did to the Lore of the game, is that hard to think a way to make them a viable race?

First thought that come to mind:

Since the Naga army spent so much years preparing for an invasion, and of course they're aware that the land is their weakness, of course they would try to figure out a way to allow them to enter deep on land to conquer and destroy, so they wouldnt be restricted to water. What kind of invasion would be that? "THE SHORES ARE OURS!! Muahahaha!!"

So, their sorceress spent years researching a way, a spell, a potion, an enchant, something like that to let them stay longer on earth. Profit! Naga now have a racial skill, similar to Worgen's, that shapeshifts them to a 'leged' form that doesnt make them weak on land, and can also shapeshift them back to the 'tailed' form that also grants them + 100% swim speed on water and while this tailed form have infinite duration on water, on land it lasts for only 1 minute.

I get what you are trying to do and I respect it - but picturing Naga with legs makes me cry. Just ignore leg armor IMO - Draenei and Trolls can't see boot graphics - Naga can't see Leg graphics - there you go Blizzard, your art team can be lazy.

Besides, we see naga on land all the time - they just slither - and it looks pretty cool

[Elestia]

Agree with the OP... In terms of the lore, the last old god and Azshara need to be dealt with. The power of N'zoth and Azshara has been the focus of evil in Azeroth since the first invasion. The dark schemes of N'zoth include Illidan's looting of the eye of Sargeras (as well as Illidan's command of the Naga) and the corruption of Death Wing, in addition to Cho'Gall's Twilight's Hammer. The prison beneath the Well of Eternity is the true reason why Sargeras looked to invade Azeroth. Because of this reason, the story must be resolved such that this knowledge leads to an understanding of the legion's true purpose. The discovery of N'zoth's presence would also help explain the nature of the Sha.

In terms of new races, imo the Jinyu and Mantid would work amazingly well, IF new races were to be implemented. (And I would have to re-roll Horde to play a Mantid.)

As for the content, I think the OP did an amazing job detailing potential areas of interest. I'd add that due to Blizz's "sidelining" of the Abyssal Maw raid back in Cata, its likely that they DO intend to implement it at the right time. Since it was designed as a 7-8 boss instance, it would be perfect for opening content and for this xpac's theme. To add, I believe a cavern's of time or flashback during the Azshara fight to the time when at the Sundering the Highbourne Night Elves were pulled into the Well of Eternity would be great, since it was then that N'zoth revealed himself to the drowning Night Elves /Azshara (since it was then that they were mutated into Naga.)