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  1. #1

    Difference between pure DPS classes and hybrids?

    Hello everyone!

    My question is if all classes should be able to do the same amount of DPS, regardless of if they have multiple roles or not.
    Is it Blizzards intention that pure DPS classes should top the meters, as that is their only role?

    I have seen people saying on these forums that Blizzard said that "class x doesnt belong in the top dps-wise" and so on, and im just wondering if theres any truth to that?

  2. #2
    I feel pure should do 5% more damage than a hybrid. A pure should have no ability to heal, not even self heal, aside from bandages and pots. Hybrid should all have a heal ability that can target other. It's the trade off.

  3. #3
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    This is allllll about personal opinion, not fact. It's hard enough to balance the numbers as it is, this would make it much worse. I doubt you would like it.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Hexotic's Avatar
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    I think that a support model would be awesome for hybrids. Say a shaman being a buff class that heals through his dps, but does lower dps than say a rogue or a warlock. The buffs the shaman brings increases the damage output of the pure classes by so much that shamans own lack of dps is covered by that increase.

    This is kind of like what we had previously, but not as potent of course. Blizz seemed to cave in, gave the buffs to all classes, and made hybrids just as potent in many situation as any pure. Fine by me, but if a class is a support class, and people choose the class, hit max lvl, then go on the forums and cry saying my support dps isnt as high as pure dps, it kind of baffles me. Of course these hybrid classes were never called support classes, and a new player wouldnt know what to expect at max lvl.

    Not sure where Im going with all this, just spewing a random thought that was stuck at the back of my head.

  5. #5
    My question was if it is the game designers intention to let pure dps classes do more dps than hybrids, not your opinion about it.
    Sorry if i wasnt clear on that

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    There should be NO DPS differences between a hybrid and a pure. The only differences there should be between a pure DPS and a hybrid are defensives and utility.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Hexotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashups View Post
    My question was if it is the game designers intention to let pure dps classes do more dps than hybrids, not your opinion about it.
    Sorry if i wasnt clear on that
    They never specified. And if you look right now, Ench shamans for example are one of the top dps specs in game, same with feral druids. So going off jut that, no they dont look at hybrids as inferior classes. At the same time, no hybrid has ever been at the top of any dps sim side by side with other classes, they generally had a niche they filled that let them be top on one or 2 fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emfg View Post
    There should be NO DPS differences between a hybrid and a pure. The only differences there should be between a pure DPS and a hybrid are defensives and utility.
    I disagree a little. If you are able to offheal, and do the same dps vs someone who can just do dps, its not exactly a fair deal. Unless you give the pure dps some other utility that would be as good as being able to at least self heal. of course I play a lock, so i shouldnt be talking, but I dunno, if you sing the make everyone equal tune, hybrids having that healing capability is anything but equal.
    Last edited by Hexotic; 2013-08-15 at 01:40 PM.

  8. #8
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    IMO a Hybrid and a Pure DPS if both played by the same skilled player, the Pure should pull ahead a minimum of 5-10%, basically the hybrid tax.

  9. #9
    There used to be a hybrid Tax as per their own discourse. Around Wrath if i'm not mistaken, that tax went down and they started disconsidering whether they are hybrids or not to balance dps. Which is why at times you saw Boomkins being top, Shadow priests and which is why nowadays you can see enhancement shamans higher than rogues in simulated dps charts.

  10. #10
    A pure class is defined as one who can only ever spec for DPS, while a hybrid is one who can spec for another role. There should be no numerical differences between them, since, for example, someone may roll a Shaman because they like the play style of Elemental and have no intention of ever being a healer.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    A pure class is defined as one who can only ever spec for DPS, while a hybrid is one who can spec for another role. There should be no numerical differences between them, since, for example, someone may roll a Shaman because they like the play style of Elemental and have no intention of ever being a healer.
    So, the intention of buffing/nerfing is to make all dps specs as balanced as possible? Not to keep, as suggested, pure dps classes 5-10% higher?

  12. #12
    I dont think that hybrid's dps specs should be able to heal, and that each dps spec should be balanced against the other dps specs. Be aware though, any hybrid that does try to heal is taking a hit to their dps. Hybrid tax is not something that should exist. Theres no reason for it. Most classes are hybrids at this stage, priests, monks, paladin, druids, shamans can all heal and dps. The rest can dps or tank. The only pure dps classes are rogues, hunters, mages and locks. Why should someone whos focus is on dps take a hit just because they 'can also heal maybe sometimes'. You shouldnt have to pay for the versatility of your class unless youre making use of it as a dps spec, and you already pay for it with your dps loss.
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  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    if your role is DPS, you should be equal. there is no hybrids anymore. so there should be no hybrid tax.

    it annoys me when people say oh moonkins cant be #1 on dps. the times have changed, the game has changed, the hybrid tax is a relic of a bygone era.

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  14. #14
    1. Blizzard has made it clear they want all dps specs balanced. You can muse about "pures should be higher all you want" but it will all come to nothing. It's all academic at this point.

    2. When people say "X class doesn't belong at the top" it's not because they've come to a rational, objective, intellectual conclusion, it's because they want their class/spec to be at the top. The rest is just justification of this childish wish.

    3. If pures did more dps, then once you had all your group buffs you'd fill your ranks with pures. This would be particularly stupid in 25man groups; your chances of getting a raid spot as a hybrid dps would be virtually nil.

    Ugh it makes me grind my teeth every time I hear someone say "X should do less dps because they COULD spec healing/tank if they really wanted to".

  15. #15
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashups View Post
    Hello everyone!

    My question is if all classes should be able to do the same amount of DPS, regardless of if they have multiple roles or not.
    Is it Blizzards intention that pure DPS classes should top the meters, as that is their only role?

    I have seen people saying on these forums that Blizzard said that "class x doesnt belong in the top dps-wise" and so on, and im just wondering if theres any truth to that?
    Right now Blizz does not want pure DPS to top meters for fear that that would make hybrids automatically unable to endgame DPS.

    But right now we have a situation where guilds will pass on pure DPS classes in favor of a hybrid because they can switch them in and out of roles as the stacking is needed.
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  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
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    Nowadays there should be no difference.

    A Ret cannot heal his raid extensively (2 FoLs until oom), nor can he tank.

    A Rogue cannot heal his raid extensively, nor can he tank.

    Both have raid utilities available to them that vary in efficacy -
    Paladin's Aura Mastery is good against spell damage, and the Ret can use various hands every few minutes.
    A Rogue can alter someone's threat, buff their damage, use smoke bomb to reduce all damage in an area.
    Both provide various raid buffs and enemy debuffs.

    So why would we tax the Paladin? Because he *could* play a tank or healer if he regeared and changed spec OUTSIDE OF COMBAT?

    Hybrid tax is an idiotic idea in today's game. The only time it's appropriate is if "pure" DPS bring:

    No buffs
    Very few debuffs
    NO utilities, nothing that can affect their allies
    No CC
    Little self-defence (essentially they'd be reliant on support to keep them effective)
    Just damage

    In today's game that just isn't the case.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-08-15 at 03:24 PM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexotic View Post
    I think that a support model would be awesome for hybrids. Say a shaman being a buff class that heals through his dps, but does lower dps than say a rogue or a warlock. The buffs the shaman brings increases the damage output of the pure classes by so much that shamans own lack of dps is covered by that increase.
    Hybrids have such raid survival utility already; Vampiric Embrace, Tranquility, AMZ, Shouts, etc. These are things pures don't have access to. By contrast, Pure DPS classes have options to switch specs to adapt themselves better to an encounter in order to potentially deal more damage. Out utility is less generally useful across the board, but things like Gateways and Smoke Bombs can prove strong in specific situations.

  18. #18
    The Patient Trollfat's Avatar
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    Yeah, nerf shamans dps when warlocks can healthstone, soulstone, summon portals to make certain encounters trivial, and immune certain mechanics. Makes total sense.
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  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Nivena's Avatar
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    Hybrids can heal; oh wait: Warlocks!


    Seriously, Warlock healing aswell as absorbs are way too overpowered from what I have seen

  20. #20
    up to wrath there used to be some difference. now theres none since they removed hybrid tax.

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