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  1. #1
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Them new trinkes in SoO fo Druids

    I'm looking a the new trinkets and I'm a litle confused as to how thy are going to work for us. I'll seporate this accordingly to help.

    Bear: Looking at Vial of Living Corruption I'm liking the amount of raw Stamina on it and the Cooldown reduction, I would think unless it would pertain to Mangle, Thrash and others which seems a litle less cool since a 22% reduction on Barkskin and other Cds would be nice, so I think this will make a great contender since either way the passive goes it will be either upping our dps/rps or our general DR/HP cooldowns the Stamina is a bonus for me since I favor HP over crit levels. So i looks like it has a safe spot. Moving on to Rook's Unlucky Talisman, Curse of Hubris and Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal I can se that Curse is almost designed for us in eneral since the crit boost will assist in rps and therefore mitigation and we get some sweet stamina ta boot! Now with Juggernaut I'm a little confused since I know we will probably be reforging the dodge to crit but what abou the passive it gives us? Will 3.16% be that helpful given we will be hitting the Savage Defense cap so we will be hit by less that coupled with our Mastery is really confusing me since I'm not too sure if it heals from unmitigated or mitigated damage an does it factor in dodged attacks? Will it be healing for shit and more annoyingly also be doing so rarely? Finially I come to Rook's one. Stamina again is cool but the on use seems really lacking. I mean really lacking. Short of us being flooded with bad stuff on the floor and our brains turning off during them what point will it really be to use? Trash?

    Also I'm wondering if the trinkets that are designed for Agility classes will effect us. Why the hell do we not get our own version of the 8% buff to some secondaries? Strength even has it, lol with a increase to spirit aswell for shits and giggles, so why are we left in the dark?

    I'm thinking Vial of Living Corruption and Curse of Hubris

    I have to admit that it is nice to see some broader choices for Trinkets.

    Boomchicken: Black Blood of Y'Shaarj is looking okay since the Haste is welcome but with a 0.93 ppm it will take what could ammount to a log damn time to get to that 10 stack max. Frenzied Crystal of Rage I'm thinking this will be wanted for large ammounts of add fights since the cleave with our dots should come flooding in I hope. A traditional ppm trinket is nice to see again and I like them since I feel I can rely on it happening, nuf said really. Kardris' Toxic Totem I'm thinking this for tank and spank fights since it will not be cleaving about the place and even so 33% will be alright. Yay more rppm... Purified Bindings of Immerseus Looks really nice and the bonus to a few of our secondaries will welcome allong with more ppm Int so I like.

    I'm thinking Purified Bindings of Immerseus and either Frenzied Crystal of Rage or Kardris' Toxic Totem dependsing on fight



    What do you guys think? Am i going in he wrong direction? Any helpful hints to throw my way?
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by AutomaticBadger View Post
    Now with Juggernaut I'm a little confused since I know we will probably be reforging the dodge to crit but what abou the passive it gives us? Will 3.16% be that helpful given we will be hitting the Savage Defense cap so we will be hit by less that coupled with our Mastery is really confusing me since I'm not too sure if it heals from unmitigated or mitigated damage an does it factor in dodged attacks? Will it be healing for shit and more annoyingly also be doing so rarely?

    Also I'm wondering if the trinkets that are designed for Agility classes will effect us. Why the hell do we not get our own version of the 8% buff to some secondaries? Strength even has it, lol with a increase to spirit aswell for shits and giggles, so why are we left in the dark?
    Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal heals you based directly off the damage you deal, not the damage we take. I haven't tested it in a raid setting yet, but due to how much passive/active self-healing is going on with Guardians, the bonus may be overkill. It possibly could have merit on massive AoE tanking since I do believe Thrash bleed ticks do yield heals, or where we're constantly at a health deficit. For roughly every 1mil damage you'd put out, we'd heal for 30k over that time, so take it as you will.

    The likely reason that agility users won't get a +X% secondary stats increase trinket is because of Rune of Re-Origination. Rune will still be really powerful in SoO, only seems fitting every other non-agility class can have something similar.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  3. #3
    The likely reason that agility users won't get a +X% secondary stats increase trinket is because of Rune of Re-Origination. Rune will still be really powerful in SoO, only seems fitting every other non-agility class can have something similar.
    #
    I dont think Rune will be viable for SoO, with the crit ratin in SoO the proc will most likely be a RPS loss. Still I think bloodlust and Renat will still be viable if you ahve it HC or hc tf.

    @ exo I think haromms and ticking ebon will also be nice especially the detonator with the huga mastery on it. haromms is more for Aoe or cleave fight.

    With the stat trinket I quess the strength one if the passive will be avaiable for us will be a good choice aswell with our sure it will not be affected by our bearform passiv only indirect but the extra stats will still be awesome.8% critical strike dmg is insane. But I think some will still change this week maybe even a agi trinket with stats. And 2 stamina trinkets maybe a bit overkill for 10m

    On fights with alot of tankdmg and high vengeane the extra healing from juggernauts will be quite good. Assuming it all dmg you deal counts, unlike NV. What would be cool if you have

    I really miss alot of Agi trinkets overall, there is no agi stat trinket or even a pure agi with stat proc on it.

    To Moonkin right now you can take both stat trinkets but only the DPS one will proc btw.


    I think:

    Vial is a must have no question about that. With our 2 piece its too strong to consider not taking it, and the extra stamina is perfect.

    Juggernauts, if it procs off thrash dot that would be very nice.

    curse. my problem with curse it if you go crit to 79% which is something I will do and I quess alot too, the proc isnt really that helpfull I mean a 15 seconds on a 1.5 min cooldown will be nice if you use NV and line it up with berserk/curse/nv or incarnation/curse/nv

    rooks unlucky: I dont think theres any discussion about it beeing really OP on high tank dmg aoe fights. For encounters similar to DA massives golem smash or similar abilities to jolt( thinking about it this trinket would have been HUGE on DA heroic)

    haromms will be a nice trinket on aoe fights. I quess if it pros of berserkmangles it willbe very nice on cleavefights. Some goes for sigil of rampage.

    ebon detonator: I kinda like it sure degrading is not that good and the fast rate it degrades is very fast still the huge amount of mastery and possible crit from reforging makes this trinket a very good choice especially on high physical fights.

    renatakis, with the huge amount of Expertise on it and the increasing proc it will still be a viable choice.

    Bloodlust dont know how its proccs after the RPPM changes, but still with 79% crit this trinket will be still one of the best RPS trinkets.

    RoRo: Will still be a huge rps and dps increase on aoe targets when you apply thrash with over 100% crit and during berserk. The problem on hard hitting fights even in ToT (raden and DA zerg) this trinket is not really that good and with the new amounts of masery and haste on gear plus the extra crit, you will likely hit about 150% crit with it and you will miss alot of rage from autoattacks and alot of armor, and when you are undergeared I dont think this will be a good thing.

    I mentioned it in another thread but the amount of trinkets is insane, still waiting on amp+ stats agi trinket and a pure agi withsome kind of proc trinket. If you ahve hc or hc tf bloodlust or renatakis you can use them aswell.

    My top choices will be

    Vial and detonator, on most fights switching detonator with the rest depending on boss. I think trinkets that are must have are, Vial detonator juggernauts and the str stats if it works. If you add bloodlust and rena to it, you will probably change trinkets almost every fight.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-08-21 at 09:03 AM.

  4. #4
    You can Reforge for RoRo with a gap between crit and haste/mastery (ie. 15k/9k/7k) instead of 1:1:1 so you still get a giant benefit from a proc but do not waste as many stats (and coincidentally have higher secondaries while the proc is off).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    You can Reforge for RoRo with a gap between crit and haste/mastery (ie. 15k/9k/7k) instead of 1:1:1 so you still get a giant benefit from a proc but do not waste as many stats (and coincidentally have higher secondaries while the proc is off).
    Are you talking about Feral or guardian?

    Cause You dont reforge for RoR cause crit outways all stat and passive 79% is alot better than sometimes beeing over 103%. The crit proc is jsut so nice for guardians due to thrash dot aoe if you time it right, and the insane dmg you gain, and the stats you lose are not as important right now. As guardian you should never reforge for RoR only for ferals.

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    About Black Blood, I think you misunderstand the concept. it's the exact same trinket as Wulooshay's, with one difference being the secondary stat on the trinket. When it procs you'll gain a stacking buff for 10 seconds. Falling off after said 10 seconds.

    it's not seperate stacking as it has been in the past. It's a stacking buff that starts off with 1870 int and ending with a bonus of 18700 int at the last second. It's one of Boomkin's BiS trinkets

  7. #7
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by narzhul View Post
    About Black Blood, I think you misunderstand the concept. it's the exact same trinket as Wulooshay's, with one difference being the secondary stat on the trinket. When it procs you'll gain a stacking buff for 10 seconds. Falling off after said 10 seconds.

    it's not seperate stacking as it has been in the past. It's a stacking buff that starts off with 1870 int and ending with a bonus of 18700 int at the last second. It's one of Boomkin's BiS trinkets
    I knew it would be a stacking proc but my main issue is the ppm can be an issue. Few things are more frustrating than watching as you drop from 7 stacks to 0 because the planets didn't align correctly and it wasn't able to be refreshed. That being said if it is able to be kept and a near constant level then yes it will be awesome but if not I tend to gravitate more towards ICD trinkets as it allows for dependable procs that can then be worked around/with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    #
    I dont think Rune will be viable for SoO, with the crit ratin in SoO the proc will most likely be a RPS loss. Still I think bloodlust and Renat will still be viable if you ahve it HC or hc tf.

    @ exo I think haromms and ticking ebon will also be nice especially the detonator with the huga mastery on it. haromms is more for Aoe or cleave fight.

    With the stat trinket I quess the strength one if the passive will be avaiable for us will be a good choice aswell with our sure it will not be affected by our bearform passiv only indirect but the extra stats will still be awesome.8% critical strike dmg is insane. But I think some will still change this week maybe even a agi trinket with stats. And 2 stamina trinkets maybe a bit overkill for 10m

    On fights with alot of tankdmg and high vengeane the extra healing from juggernauts will be quite good. Assuming it all dmg you deal counts, unlike NV. What would be cool if you have

    I really miss alot of Agi trinkets overall, there is no agi stat trinket or even a pure agi with stat proc on it.

    To Moonkin right now you can take both stat trinkets but only the DPS one will proc btw.


    I think:

    Vial is a must have no question about that. With our 2 piece its too strong to consider not taking it, and the extra stamina is perfect.

    Juggernauts, if it procs off thrash dot that would be very nice.

    curse. my problem with curse it if you go crit to 79% which is something I will do and I quess alot too, the proc isnt really that helpfull I mean a 15 seconds on a 1.5 min cooldown will be nice if you use NV and line it up with berserk/curse/nv or incarnation/curse/nv

    rooks unlucky: I dont think theres any discussion about it beeing really OP on high tank dmg aoe fights. For encounters similar to DA massives golem smash or similar abilities to jolt( thinking about it this trinket would have been HUGE on DA heroic)

    haromms will be a nice trinket on aoe fights. I quess if it pros of berserkmangles it willbe very nice on cleavefights. Some goes for sigil of rampage.

    ebon detonator: I kinda like it sure degrading is not that good and the fast rate it degrades is very fast still the huge amount of mastery and possible crit from reforging makes this trinket a very good choice especially on high physical fights.

    renatakis, with the huge amount of Expertise on it and the increasing proc it will still be a viable choice.

    Bloodlust dont know how its proccs after the RPPM changes, but still with 79% crit this trinket will be still one of the best RPS trinkets.

    RoRo: Will still be a huge rps and dps increase on aoe targets when you apply thrash with over 100% crit and during berserk. The problem on hard hitting fights even in ToT (raden and DA zerg) this trinket is not really that good and with the new amounts of masery and haste on gear plus the extra crit, you will likely hit about 150% crit with it and you will miss alot of rage from autoattacks and alot of armor, and when you are undergeared I dont think this will be a good thing.

    I mentioned it in another thread but the amount of trinkets is insane, still waiting on amp+ stats agi trinket and a pure agi withsome kind of proc trinket. If you ahve hc or hc tf bloodlust or renatakis you can use them aswell.

    My top choices will be

    Vial and detonator, on most fights switching detonator with the rest depending on boss. I think trinkets that are must have are, Vial detonator juggernauts and the str stats if it works. If you add bloodlust and rena to it, you will probably change trinkets almost every fight.
    I see your point that with Curse you will be sitting on a crap load of crit which will probably be going to waste since we will be, most likely, sitting at the crit cap and watching as its activated gets less and less used. Just trying to think of something that will assist in keeping me up will be fun. Yay...

    Though if the heal from dealing damage, yeah I completely read that wrong hehe, is actually of any use I can see it being used with reforging that dodge away to something more useful like maybe Mastery/Crit, maybe even Haste? still wonder what happened to Haste..., and then smiling as the Heal keeps me up a little at least.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    Are you talking about Feral or guardian?

    Cause You dont reforge for RoR cause crit outways all stat and passive 79% is alot better than sometimes beeing over 103%. The crit proc is jsut so nice for guardians due to thrash dot aoe if you time it right, and the insane dmg you gain, and the stats you lose are not as important right now. As guardian you should never reforge for RoR only for ferals.
    But that's only if you reach 79% passive crit in bear form which we might or might not in next-tier gear (right now sitting at 53-57%). Until then you can gap-reforge to minimize how much you overcap past 100% and fill in another trinket. Once you reach 79% I suppose you could start swapping over to focusing crystal or vial of corruption.

    RPS with soft-capped crit is probably so high you can't even spend rage on anything anymore (SD, maul on CD, FR will overheal) so getting stam/crit will most likely be 100% wasted and we might be swapping over to other dps-increasing or healing-increasing trinkets. Wouldn't hurt to run some tests on PTR with multistrike or cleave and see how they ramp up for guardians (any hidden proc modifiers? Does it work on thrash, berserk'd mangle?)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by AutomaticBadger View Post
    I knew it would be a stacking proc but my main issue is the ppm can be an issue. Few things are more frustrating than watching as you drop from 7 stacks to 0 because the planets didn't align correctly and it wasn't able to be refreshed. That being said if it is able to be kept and a near constant level then yes it will be awesome but if not I tend to gravitate more towards ICD trinkets as it allows for dependable procs that can then be worked around/with.
    I think you have misunderstood, the Black blood of Y'Shaarj gives a stacking intellect buff every second for 10 seconds. For example, the trinket procs
    (Seconds) - Intellect Bonus
    1 - 1870
    2 - 3740
    3 - 5610
    4 - 7480
    5 - 9350
    ...
    10 - 18700
    and then the proc falls off. That being said, I think that the Toxic Totem and Purified Bindings will pull ahead of the others for single target fights while the cleaving trinket will be superior to the Toxic Totem for AoE purposes.
    Last edited by craigp100; 2013-08-21 at 12:21 PM.

  10. #10
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigp100 View Post
    I think you have misunderstood, the Black blood of Y'Shaarj gives a stacking intellect buff every second for 10 seconds. For example, the trinket procs
    (Seconds) - Intellect Bonus
    1 - 1870
    2 - 3740
    3 - 5610
    4 - 7480
    5 - 9350
    ...
    10 - 18700
    and then the proc falls off. That being said, I think that the Toxic Totem and Purified Bindings will pull ahead of the others for single target fights while the cleaving trinket will be superior to the Toxic Totem for AoE purposes.
    Oh now I get it. Thanks so much for clearing that up for me. That being said then it would make dots sort of wonky given we would only really want to refresh them at 8-10 stacks. Given the random nature of the proc it would be annoying if we are too far out of an eclipse to take advantage of it.

    Yeah after looking at that I think it will boil down to Purified and either Toxic or Frenzied depending on how many adds will be up during the fight.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  11. #11
    For boomkins all three single-target look pretty decent. Purified Bindings look very nice number-wise. Toxic totem proc might be fun, tho i don't like 10 sec duration on int proc. Same goes for Frienzied Crystal, as much as I enjoy playing with WFC, 10 sec proc is not really working well for me.

    Overall I wouldn't mind getting my hands on any of those, since they all look pretty okay. Have to wait for WrathCalc to see dem numbers tho.

  12. #12
    For those interested (and in case you miss it) - slippykins has done another wonderful job at analysing trinkets and trinket combinations in the tier 16h BiS list and can be found here http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post22152247

  13. #13
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigp100 View Post
    For those interested (and in case you miss it) - slippykins has done another wonderful job at analysing trinkets and trinket combinations in the tier 16h BiS list and can be found here http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post22152247
    Yeah I checked it out and am making a quick list on wow profiler to remember.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by AutomaticBadger View Post

    Boomchicken: Black Blood of Y'Shaarj is looking okay since the Haste is welcome but with a 0.93 ppm it will take what could ammount to a log damn time to get to that 10 stack max.
    It works the same as wushoolay, it's not 1 stack per proc. It's a proc that every 1 second gives a stack of 1870 int. It's going to be less bursty than Wushoolays (which is bis currently) because each individual int stack only lasts 1 second - less room for error if you're wanting that 9-10 stack also. Hopefully it can proc twice as much though, increasing the chance we can pop out some 10 stack CA dots. I think this one could end up being BiS simply because of how the boomkin class plays out (high burst during cd's). The haste on the item shouldn't be an issue honestly, having the 10289 breakpoint will be trivial (practically is now) and it's high enough of a number that we get plenty of room to reforge around.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    It works the same as wushoolay, it's not 1 stack per proc. It's a proc that every 1 second gives a stack of 1870 int. It's going to be less bursty than Wushoolays (which is bis currently) because each individual int stack only lasts 1 second - less room for error if you're wanting that 9-10 stack also. Hopefully it can proc twice as much though, increasing the chance we can pop out some 10 stack CA dots. I think this one could end up being BiS simply because of how the boomkin class plays out (high burst during cd's). The haste on the item shouldn't be an issue honestly, having the 10289 breakpoint will be trivial (practically is now) and it's high enough of a number that we get plenty of room to reforge around.
    Like you said though the issue is the short window to do anything during. It can really go wrong if you can't adjust to it quickly enough to get the most out of it where the ICD ones have a much larger window of opportunity.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  16. #16
    My comments concerning RoR and why we don't have a +X% secondary stats trinket in SoO as agility users was not meant for Guardians, but players across all classes. RoR will still have value for Guardians, as our gearing choices may have a larger say in how much crit we'll end up having (and considering there isn't really any RPS trinkets in SoO for bears, minus a few less-than-ideal outliers).

    I have done some PTR raid testing with the Multistrike/Cleave trinkets as Guardian, and while I haven't gone into direct analysis of what will proc it (guild's working me thin with other things I have to test ), the encounters will dictate heavily the numbers. Multistrike has been always sub-3% of my total damage output, while Cleave on multi-target fights is slightly better, but not by much. The legendary DPS meta and cloak put out much more damage than either trinket in either scenario thus far, assuming the proc chance is intended for said trinkets.

    Also, I haven't tested to see if the STR trinket works with boosting our secondary stats. My hunch is that it won't work, since the caster and healer versions don't work for Guardians. Even if it does, it's likely not intended... although it may be sweet revenge from plate-wearers stealing our leather gear years ago!

    *edit* - Currently the STR version of the +X% secondary stats trinket does work for Guardians on the PTR. Again, I highly doubt it's intended.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2013-08-21 at 05:05 PM.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  17. #17
    The problem with black blood trinket is kinda like the problem with wushoolays in theory it is the best but in tot I heard alot it is really good but the other trinkets are better in a real raid situation dont know exactly how it goes with boomkins.

    But that's only if you reach 79% passive crit in bear form which we might or might not in next-tier gear (right now sitting at 53-57%). Until then you can gap-reforge to minimize how much you overcap past 100% and fill in another trinket. Once you reach 79% I suppose you could start swapping over to focusing crystal or vial of corruption.

    RPS with soft-capped crit is probably so high you can't even spend rage on anything anymore (SD, maul on CD, FR will overheal) so getting stam/crit will most likely be 100% wasted and we might be swapping over to other dps-increasing or healing-increasing trinkets. Wouldn't hurt to run some tests on PTR with multistrike or cleave and see how they ramp up for guardians (any hidden proc modifiers? Does it work on thrash, berserk'd mangle?)
    Depends on ilvl currently I have 543 with a crap belt and to much hit. And im sitting at 72% raidbuffed crit. hitting the 79% will be easy next content.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    My comments concerning RoR and why we don't have a +X% secondary stats trinket in SoO as agility users was not meant for Guardians, but players across all classes. RoR will still have value for Guardians, as our gearing choices may have a larger say in how much crit we'll end up having (and considering there isn't really any RPS trinkets in SoO for bears, minus a few less-than-ideal outliers).

    I have done some PTR raid testing with the Multistrike/Cleave trinkets as Guardian, and while I haven't gone into direct analysis of what will proc it (guild's working me thin with other things I have to test ), the encounters will dictate heavily the numbers. Multistrike has been always sub-3% of my total damage output, while Cleave on multi-target fights is slightly better, but not by much. The legendary DPS meta and cloak put out much more damage than either trinket in either scenario thus far, assuming the proc chance is intended for said trinkets.

    Also, I haven't tested to see if the STR trinket works with boosting our secondary stats. My hunch is that it won't work, since the caster and healer versions don't work for Guardians. Even if it does, it's likely not intended... although it may be sweet revenge from plate-wearers stealing our leather gear years ago!

    *edit* - Currently the STR version of the +X% secondary stats trinket does work for Guardians on the PTR. Again, I highly doubt it's intended.
    Yeah the Str one working seems unintended to me.

    Aside from that I dislike the multi-strike ones. Eh feels weird to me.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

  19. #19
    one think i just noticed maybe we dont get a stat trinket cause there is a agi/tank cdr trinket. but str gets both

  20. #20
    As Guardian I'll probably be chasing the Agility DPS CD Reduction and Agility DPS Amplification trinkets provided they work in Guardian spec. Otherwise I'll most likely stick with my 549 Renataki's and the Tank CD Reduction Trinket.

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