Low representation of Feral

[Dracodraco]

I think the fact that rogues have been so extremely powerfull with CoS and smokebomb etc is a big part of it. Little story from our everyday guild life -

One of our rogues had a feral druid alt. By the time he got it to 520 ilvl, he asked if he could reroll boomkin on it.
"why?"
"Because it's really not fun playing feral. It's like being a rogue, but with a worse rotation and less utility/survivability".

[Deleted]

This is part of the Feral stigma that likely has a big influence on Feral representation, as well. I'm not going to say if it's true or not, because it doesn't really matter if it's true or not. If the perception is there and maintained by a sizable amount of the WoW population, there's going to be much less reason for someone to try out Feral or bring one to their raids. Add on top all the other topics relating to Feral representation, and the sea of negatives (even if it's just perception rather than fact) just makes the whole situation seem bleak for the spec.

However, I'm personally waiting for the 6.0 beta testing to see what's in store for Feral. From all the recent blue posts with future intents for adjusting classes that will not take place in 5.4, many of them touch on different aspects of Feral (althought not directly mentioned) that may need change. There has also been some hinting with adjustments made on the 5.4 PTR to suggest future changes and the direction Blizz wants to go with Feral. While I believe some changes will likely come directly to Ferals, I also agree there must be changes made outside of the druid class entirely that may address the stigma that Ferals face.

From my perspective, it seems Blizz is trying to find a way to make Feral more appealing and useful to the average player while allowing the skilled players to bring out the full potential, all while making the power between the skill levels not so stilted in one direction to preclude the spec from performing well anywhere on the skill spectrum.

This part right here..... If that was the case, why did they then destroy the DoC talent in the first place? I thought the whole point of choosing DoC, was that it would net you more dps, if played properly?

Also, you may call it perception, when I say I wouldn't bring a Feral to a 10 man roster, if I could have a Rogue or a DK. But the fact is, that both Rogues and DK's bring more utility to the raid. Cloak and Smokebomb and Mass Grip>6 min. HotW Tranq and Reju spam. At the same time, neither Rogue or DK lose dps, while the Feral has to completely stop dps'ing to make use of his utility.

If Feral pulled ahead by a fair margin, then maybe - but they don't. It's not a perception that Rogues and DK's will do more dps than a Feral - assuming equal gear.

And if you go back to my first post, I clearly stated that it's not just about what the Feral brings. It's equally as much about what other classes bring and when you raid 10 man, you don't want more than max 2 melee. So tell me how it's perception that the better choice is Rogue and DK? In a 25 man guild you got more room to bring a Feral and I know some Ferals are doing great dps, the pro's about bringing a Feral just aren't good enough imo.

[Ziene]

I have been reading this post for a while. Lot's of people here made some good points.

Something that I feel is being danced around boils down to melee vs. range. This expansion seem to be more melee heavy and maneuvering than ranged where they didn't feel they had to move alot (position wise) in fights.

Heated article here
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...1646382?page=1

It would stand to reason that ferals do need to have "something" done to have better competition, however I feel that in this expansion, its just not just them.

[Adornus]

I'm the OP on that thread on bnet forums (Adornus) and I'm a WW.

I feel so much for Ferals, the same way I feel for WW. We're both in a pretty shitty spot when it comes down to it. You guys have some more utility on us, but we have more damage (which is going away in 5.4). Bottom line, we don't come close to the range specs that absolutely dominate with multi-dotting, high raid utility, and ease of mechanics.

It's absolutely absurd it's gotten to this (and I still feel Lore's response was a troll).

EDIT - just for clarification those stats come from ALL logs in the past 2 months across all specs that have a kill marked on Normal or Heroic Lei Shen. It's disgusting how much melee rep drops (sans rogue) in heroic modes, but honestly, is anyone surprised?

I suggest everyone post in that thread - the more we lean on Lore/Devs to make some QoL changes (flat buff band-aid fix), the better.

EDIT2 - Broken out to 10m and 25m that look better

10m


25m

[Mikael123]

Druids have four specializations and ferals have the lowest chance of getting accepted into a 10 man raid of those 4 specs. I think that's why people choose one of the other 3 specs. A 10 man raid is almost never in a situation where a feral is preferred over an equally skilled ranged dps.

[Adornus]

I also broke it out by individual spec - 25 man. The grey shaded ones are specs that have a suitable alternative (DPS in same gear set/class). Sorted by Heroic Distribution.

[teddabear]

Feral isn't preferred over equally skilled anything. The kicker is Rogues are light years ahead of Feral and WW and we use the same gear. End result a raid leader only goes with a Feral or WW if he cant find a Rogue. Blizzard looks to be hard set in following a path where eventually the game is nothing but tanks, healers and pure DPS. At this point it would be hard to go back since it appears many non-Pure DPS have given up on the game.

[snaxattax]

catbear in cata was the most fun i've had in the game. feral right now is a spec i have zero interest in playing - lower dps than a rogue with minimal utility (having a weaker innervate than moonkin just makes me facepalm), and guardians is crap, too. why play a bear druid when i can carry an alt run on an alt prot paladin?

feral has been OP in pvp due to strong instant CCs, but as far as PVE is concerned they divided a fun spec in half and got two piles of crap.

[teddabear]

From my perspective, it seems Blizz is trying to find a way to make Feral more appealing and useful to the average player while allowing the skilled players to bring out the full potential, all while making the power between the skill levels not so stilted in one direction to preclude the spec from performing well anywhere on the skill spectrum.

Can you elaborate? From my perspective the only work Blizzard has done on Feral in 5.4 has been to make them worse in PvP. What Blizzard has done with Feral on the PTR would lead you believe they are either incompetent or clueless. Whoever came up with the original 4-pc set bonus should have been fired on the spot. I can't even imagine what would happen to me if I was so bad at my job but I would probably be living under a bridge somewhere.

[Rioo]

Why would anyone picking a new class/spec to play with choose feral? You work harder than any other spec in the game without getting anything for it. It would be fun to see some numbers on the distribution of newly dinged raiders and their specs. All classes lose players but gaining new ones makes it okay.

Back in Cataclysm at least we had bear form as an awesome utility in raids (10-man at least), even though Blizzard already then tried to stop ferals being ferals.

[Zstr]

this is just common sense as it stays from tbc and vanilla, where ferals wasn't really implented much as dps spec they worst of all, atleast they got some love after
their rotation was complex, now it's lot easier and can't call it hard
most ppl just rolling feral for pvp propouse only as they hear how OP and mobility they are
and all that DoC vs Hotw absurd it just seem, and I strongly agree it really much RNG realted,even sim of DoC is a few% higher it is not practicaly based, as of bosses have lots of differnet mechanics

[Pull My Finger]

Also is this the reason why feral is the only spec which seems to be ignored the most in patch notes (PVE feral that is)

I don't care about the numbers atm, its the lack of attention the spec often gets. What do you think?

I don't think it's like that. I really don't think that the folks at Blizzard make balancing decisions based around the popularity of a class or spec. That would also mean that they're actually susceptible to whine threads a la "OMG FUCKTARDS FIX TEH HUNTREZ ALREADY" or "mages are OP, nerf them!", and they definitely aren't.

I also think that you can't really complain about "lack of attention" when the spec is, by and large, in a pretty OK place. I think Feral is.

[Adornus]

All 3 Warlock specs have a greater % distribution in heroic than Feral and WW. Sigh.

[Grubjuice]

All 3 Warlock specs have a greater % distribution in heroic than Feral and WW. Sigh.

Warlocks are freaking awesome because they were entirely redesigned from the ground up at the beginning of the expansion they have basically the best designed class in the game right now. (and they scale a little too well)

[Adornus]

Warlocks are freaking awesome because they were entirely redesigned from the ground up at the beginning of the expansion they have basically the best designed class in the game right now. (and they scale a little too well)

So were WW and look how that turned out...

[Tarazet]

Their loss. I'll keep playing what I like. Feral DPS is really strong and we have a solid niche in 25 mans. In 10's, melee are generally just screwed unless they're a Warrior or Rogue and provide unique contributions.

[Tinderhoof]

So were WW and look how that turned out...

BIG difference between New Design, and Re-Design. With Warlocks they could take what they knew worked and look for ways to make new stuff awesome. WW Monks first go around has been a rollarcoaster ride. Also Warlocks have had to do with a lot of changes of their own.

[pkm]

Their loss. I'll keep playing what I like. Feral DPS is really strong and we have a solid niche in 25 mans. In 10's, melee are generally just screwed unless they're a Warrior or Rogue and provide unique contributions.

Well actually, its no ones loss. No one is losing out on not bringing a feral lol.

[Tarazet]

Well actually, its no ones loss. No one is losing out on not bringing a feral lol.

But Assassination is so boring.

[pkm]

But Assassination is so boring.

True, but i think being a benefit to the raid is more important as everyone knows. I mean, paladins are boring to alot of people but are still played because they make excellent tanks this tier all because of the benefit to the raid.