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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Imo, they should put certain spells to certain specs only.

    Ice Lance - Frost
    Fire Blast - Fire(Until Inferno Blast)
    Arcane Explosion - Arcane
    Flamestrike - Fire
    Blizzard - Frost
    Conjure Mana Gem - Arcane
    Fire blast is great vs spell reflect as frost. I switch armors all the time in pvp so they should remain. Arcane explosion and Blizzard are decent. Conjure Mana gem is worthless and the developers should feel bad for not removing it this expansion.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  2. #222
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Arcane and Frost (excluding Frostfire Bolt's piddly weak DoT it had) never had DoTs until 5.0.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Living Bomb has been around since BC homeslice.
    Please stop taking what I say out of context. It's getting REALLY irritating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    My personal preference would be to make all the bombs baseline and add more interesting talents in their place. But that's just me.

    Stuff like druid DoC or HoTW come to mind when I think of really cool talents.
    Frost Bomb needs to be removed or give NT baseline to Arcane/Frost. Making Frost get FBomb baseline would just be irritating for raid stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    That's actually a great point! I'm against the removal of portals, but haven't thought about this aspect.
    I think if Mages lost all ability to teleport, I probably wouldn't play Mage anymore. Hell, that was part of the reason I initially rolled Mage back in BC and every time I play a non-Mage toon, I get so annoyed that I can't go wherever I want, when I want. I enjoy playing the Dr. Mundo class.

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  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Please stop taking what I say out of context. It's getting REALLY irritating
    I believe that would be the first post I have made out of context and if you would have read a little down from your original post you would have seen I admitted I missed the first part of your post and did infact take it out of context. Sorry sport, my B ill try not to do it again I know how irritated you get.

  4. #224
    Not seen it mentioned before, but they could certainly merge the teleports and portals. If you're solo, cast teleport; if you're in a party, make a portal.

    That would also stop the mage-in-the-group-accidentally-teleports-when-trying-to-make-a-portal.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliessil View Post
    Not seen it mentioned before, but they could certainly merge the teleports and portals. If you're solo, cast teleport; if you're in a party, make a portal.

    That would also stop the mage-in-the-group-accidentally-teleports-when-trying-to-make-a-portal.
    But what about when you unintentionally click the portal said Mage opened because he couldn't just port? And I has been mention quite a few times. Just like "no one uses mana gem except arcane" followed by "yes you do in pvp" at least once every other page.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    But what about when you unintentionally click the portal said Mage opened because he couldn't just port? And I has been mention quite a few times. Just like "no one uses mana gem except arcane" followed by "yes you do in pvp" at least once every other page.
    I don't think Mana Gem usage in PVP is of any concern. Remove the gem or make it Arcane-only and lower Spellsteal cost a little bit for the specs that lost the gem - no problem at all. The gem doesn't add much gameplay, especially for non-Arcane mages.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    I don't think Mana Gem usage in PVP is of any concern. Remove the gem or make it Arcane-only and lower Spellsteal cost a little bit for the specs that lost the gem - no problem at all. The gem doesn't add much gameplay, especially for non-Arcane mages.
    But the whole reason it costs so much to spellsteal was to avoid the spamming, so lowering the cost would bring back a problem that they managed to at least somewhat fix, I understand a lot of people don't like mana gem(for whatever reason) but really the simpler solution than "blizz pls remove this spell that I don't use" would be just don't put it on your bar and let those that still use it, use it.

    A lot of the "problems" I have seen crop up in this thread could simply be fixed by not putting spells that you don't use on your bars and forgetting they exist, and letting those who utilize the full mage toolkit, to keep them. There is no spell that we have that is used infrequently enough to remove it, those who disagree with that statement either aren't using the abilities they have to the fullest or aren't participating in both sides of the game (pve and pvp)

  8. #228
    Biggest problem I see is not bloat but the removal of the gameplay elements that made the abilities relevent in the first place, mana gem for instance, was a usefull resorce at one point then became an important part of our rotation but now with the new mechanics is largley irrelevent. Sheeping, another important gameplay/skill/tactic that seems largly irrelevent.

    For example, dungeons in the past went something like, enter .. first mobs, tank marks sap/sheep/iceblock targets, rogue goes, you sheep, it all kicks off, hunter pulls/kites (kites btw another skill lost) mob over to ice trap, tank pulls the rest away as not to break cc, everyone starts dps, not to fast though might pull threat from the tank even the healer need to be carefull (there used to be healing threat).

    Nowadays its tank pulls everything, target what you like or Aoe, doesn't really matter = really boreing.

    My point is that the current game design dosen't allow for classes to use the unique spells and talents so they become 'bloat' because we never get to use them.

  9. #229
    With the amount of keybinds available I really don't see any problem with the current amount of spells. Flamestrike could be removed I guess, I just personally like having a lot of cool abilities even if I rarely use them. Stuff like mana gem, different polymorphs and slow fall.

  10. #230
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    I believe that would be the first post I have made out of context and if you would have read a little down from your original post you would have seen I admitted I missed the first part of your post and did infact take it out of context. Sorry sport, my B ill try not to do it again I know how irritated you get.
    In THIS thread...

    Also, love the condescending attitude, meng.

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  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    But we also need DoTs removed. Arcane and Frost (excluding Frostfire Bolt's piddly weak DoT it had) never had DoTs until 5.0. Why we needed them all of a sudden is beyond me...
    Oh hell no.. Remember arcane before any dots, you just did next to 0 damage each time you moved.. At least now when we have a really strong dot to use, our dps doesn't drop as much.. I mean it's not a really big deal in the end, as you can balance the stationary spells to hit more, but that puts even more pressure to move as little as possible, and arcane would yet again be that stationary nuker that scales out of control for stationary fights and gets a nerf based on the outcry of everyone.. then again 5.4 is already looking like that.

    Anyways that's my 2 cents abt Arcane at least.. I mean it's not a big deal for me if they get removed and Arcane wouldn't suffer, but I don't see how Arcane would suffer from removing 20% dot damage.. you can't just buff our ST by 10%(compared to before removing the dot) to compensate movement loss..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Then again.. Arcane in my mind needs a complete redesign, but seeing that blizz is rather happy with it atm(from their comments), I don't see that happening.

    Frost might not need a dot though.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    But the whole reason it costs so much to spellsteal was to avoid the spamming, so lowering the cost would bring back a problem that they managed to at least somewhat fix, I understand a lot of people don't like mana gem(for whatever reason) but really the simpler solution than "blizz pls remove this spell that I don't use" would be just don't put it on your bar and let those that still use it, use it.

    A lot of the "problems" I have seen crop up in this thread could simply be fixed by not putting spells that you don't use on your bars and forgetting they exist, and letting those who utilize the full mage toolkit, to keep them. There is no spell that we have that is used infrequently enough to remove it, those who disagree with that statement either aren't using the abilities they have to the fullest or aren't participating in both sides of the game (pve and pvp)
    Well, yes, the cost is specifically made prohibitive. But I'm not saying it should be reverted to spammable state. Mana gem restores 18% mana every 2 minutes, Spellsteal costs 21%. So basically Mana Gem allows 1 additional Spellsteal every 2 minutes on demand. Not a very engaging mechanic if you ask me.

    Myself I constantly use Mana Gem in PVP as all specs if I find myself Spellstealing a lot (which is usually the case) and of course I use it as Arcane in PVE. I have it binded for quick use on the same key since I first learned it in TBC and it doesn't bother me much. But frankly I don't see much point of it staying as it is. I like gems in general, that's why I have Jewelcrafting as my main profession, so naturally I hesitate to remove Mana Gem altogether. But I have to admit - it's usefulness has greatly diminished over the years, especially for non-Arcane. It should either be made more interesting, or Arcane-only as a mana-management tool or completely removed. Also the creating of an actual item with charges in the bags is kind of outdated. It should be just a cooldown.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Oh hell no.. Remember arcane before any dots, you just did next to 0 damage each time you moved.. At least now when we have a really strong dot to use, our dps doesn't drop as much..
    Why do you think it's meaningful? Part of your overall damage is transferred to a dot, Mage Bomb, so the fact that your bomb ticks while you move doesn't make you deal more damage, you basically deal the dot's damage the instant it is applied assuming the target won't go immune or die, so whether you move or not afterwards is irrelevant. Or do you mean you can multidot while moving? That's more or a concern, but still, you are either putting dots on the targets you were ignoring as they are insignificant or you are going to overwrite dots early, potentially with more weak ones. Not a very good solution to movement.
    Last edited by Nightfall; 2013-08-24 at 05:53 PM.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Why do you think it's meaningful? Part of your overall damage is transferred to a dot, Mage Bomb, so the fact that your bomb ticks while you move doesn't make you deal more damage, you basically deal the dot's damage the instant it is applied assuming the target won't go immune or die, so whether you move or not afterwards is irrelevant. Or do you mean you can multidot while moving? That's more or a concern, but still, you are either putting dots on the targets you were ignoring as they are insignificant or you are going to overwrite dots early, potentially with more weak ones. Not a very good solution to movement.
    It's nice when people don't read what I just wrote, but hell I'll try to explain it better.. Having a dot doing 20% of your overall damage, means that when you eventually have to move, your dps doesn't drop as much, when again means your stationary dps doesn't have to be too high for the game to handle.(For example 10% of the fight is moving, you do 50% damage while moving, you loose 5% overall damage if we don't have a dot, you loose 4% damage when you have a 20% dot, now that is EXTREMELY simplified and arcane certainly doesn't loose 50% all the time, with the new RoP coming, 1 could argue with a bit of luck, it ain't a dps loss at all to move as your RoP range is so much bigger). Other option ofc is to give arcane more movement dps, but that doesn't seem likely seeing how Blizzard has been developing it.

    I didn't even comment on multidotting, so how you got that.. I don't know. Multidotting is only an option when there is more than 1 target that is meaningful for the fight(unless you pad the meters). What I really meant was movement dps for arcane, which consists of AE, ABarr, (something random instant if outside of AE range) and a dot. Generally we use ABarr if we know the movement is gonna be longer than a simple dot and move and it suits our mana, procs and charges, followed by dot refresh unless it's like few seconds from last refresh and then AE ftw if in Boss range. Now if we move for 1-2 seconds we don't loose much compared to standstill(if dot is removed we prolly would), but it's those 3+ second movements, that are kinda rare have to admit, but those fights still put us to a point if you should bring an Arcane Mage to the fight as he can't do the damage needed overall. Granted with the new RoP range in 5.4 it is A LOT better in that respect, even the small movement as we don't have to redo rune every single time.

    So in short having a strong dot has 2 good perks, having 1 more GCD to push while moving(super useful if you know the movement timing, not so useful on random movement and bad luck) and it smooths out the dps when you face dps loss for whatever reason. Then again it's a dps loss in itself if you can't max the uptime..

  14. #234
    I've recently started playing my mage a bit more.. and this thread is scary.. remove mana gem? I use that in pvp after spell stealing.. Teleports? How could you possibly want to remove that?

    Mages don't have complicated rotations/priorities.. there's no need to remove anything.

    The only thing that is a bit shit for pve is Alter Time I guess, but I LOVE having that in pvp.. oh you're gonna follow me mister warrior? Here jump off this bridge after me! Oh just kidding i'll cancel my Alter Time and port back up!
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  15. #235
    Man we are a snippy bunch. Why so aggressive fellow mages??
    Let Reason Prevail

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarion View Post
    Man we are a snippy bunch. Why so aggressive fellow mages??
    Good question.

    I'm not sure why people are so hung up on teleport. We would still have portal. The concerns people are bringing up about portals being everywhere or people accidentally clicking them are pretty asinine.

    It is clear there will be changes coming next expansion. Hopefully they don't dumb us down too much, but honestly, it is clear they want to move into an even more casual friendly direction judging by what I saw from the dev interviews.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    Good question.

    I'm not sure why people are so hung up on teleport. We would still have portal. The concerns people are bringing up about portals being everywhere or people accidentally clicking them are pretty asinine.
    Another snippy comment with nothing constructive to follow. It's a fucking debate dude, there are many ways to argue your point.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    Good question.

    I'm not sure why people are so hung up on teleport. We would still have portal. The concerns people are bringing up about portals being everywhere or people accidentally clicking them are pretty asinine.

    It is clear there will be changes coming next expansion. Hopefully they don't dumb us down too much, but honestly, it is clear they want to move into an even more casual friendly direction judging by what I saw from the dev interviews.
    I usually teleport and go afk.. now I would have to wait for the cast and click on the portal!

    But ye.. I don't know. I have been a mage from the beginning and it just wouldn't be the same without teleport. They could remove portals though xD. I mean yeah it wouldn't be much of a hassle to cast a portal and click it, but it just doesn't feel the same. Plus removing teleport wouldn't make much sense either as it aint a combat spell, so you can bind them to some weird buttons that you have no chance ever to reach with your keyboard hand. Plus they are behind 1 spell in the spellbook so it wouldn't do much either. If they wanted to reduce spells in spellbook, remove passives to some other tab and then reduce poly's to 1 spell on the spellbook just like teleport and portal..

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Another snippy comment with nothing constructive to follow. It's a fucking debate dude, there are many ways to argue your point.
    How is this "snippy"? If anyone is being "snippy", it's you. You already got called out for jumping down someone's throat before actually reading what you were reacting to.

    I really think the concerns over merging Teleport and Portal that have been brought up are weak ones that can be addressed by tweaking Portal.

    As I said in my last post, it is clear they are looking to trim some things down. Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant. The best we can hope for is that they are smart about the way they go about it.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    It's nice when people don't read what I just wrote, but hell I'll try to explain it better..
    <..>
    I didn't even comment on multidotting, so how you got that.. I don't know.
    Chill out man! I can't read your mind, go to Priests for that.

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