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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    How is this "snippy"? If anyone is being "snippy", it's you. You already got called out for jumping down someone's throat before actually reading what you were reacting to.

    I really think the concerns over merging Teleport and Portal that have been brought up are weak ones that can be addressed by tweaking Portal.
    I am absolutely being "snippy" because 90% of the things being said in this thread are how did you put it? Asinine? My post about portals was a fucking joke about something that happens a small % of the time. The whole portal argument is asinine. It's one slot in our spell book that's a drop down menu, great space saver. Maybe we should assign a number code to each city and have one button with a 20 second cast, you start the cast and type in the city code along with the names of the player you want to port there. These players won't even have to be in your group (to make it more simple if course) they just get a pop up window in which they just have to confirm they would like to be ported using an predetermined eight digit pin that you send them in the mail 30 minutes before departure time. Sounds good to me, simplified that shit to one button the the spell book.
    Last edited by Kenbud; 2013-08-25 at 01:31 AM.

  2. #242
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    I am absolutely being "snippy" because 90% of the things being said in this thread are how did you put it? Asinine? My post about portals was a fucking joke about something that happens a small % of the time. The whole portal argument is asinine. It's one slot in our spell book that's a drop down menu, great space saver. Maybe we should assign a number code to each city and have one button with a 20 second cast, you start the cast and type in the city code along with the names of the player you want to port there. These players won't even have to be in your group (to make it more simple if course) they just get a pop up window in which they just have to confirm they would like to be ported using an predetermined eight digit pin that you send them in the mail 30 minutes before departure time. Sounds good to me, simplified that shit to one button the the spell book.
    If ever there was an appropriate use of "CSB", this would be it. It is quite clear from your post history that all you want to do is argue. You make ad hominem and strawman posts while completely ignoring the substance of any post you attack.

    I am bored with you. Have fun with your little forum game.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    If ever there was an appropriate use of "CSB", this would be it. It is quite clear from your post history that all you want to do is argue. You make ad hominem and strawman posts while completely ignoring the substance of any post you attack.

    I am bored with you. Have fun with your little forum game.
    I don't attack any post with substance, i would actually embrace them. Looking at my "post history" in this thread you will see i have agreed with a few people who have had some really good ideas. so if your post had substance i failed to see it and you failed to see the comedic nature of mine so i took up a notch just for you. I enjoy arguing very much but the one thing i enjoy more is a constructive discussion with new and good ideas. Since this thread is very lacking of the latter im going to have fun defending my opinion. Sorry you're bored, I will miss your thought provoking ideals oh wait....

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Chill out man! I can't read your mind, go to Priests for that.
    Sorry if I was a bit too hard on you, but I was mighty tired yesterday.. And this thread kinda rubs me the wrong way so much.. Hell we need more spells, not less atm. Our rotations are so simple with mix with uptime talents and a dot to refresh. I mean it doesn't need to be super hard, but it's way too faceroll atm.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Sorry if I was a bit too hard on you, but I was mighty tired yesterday.. And this thread kinda rubs me the wrong way so much.. Hell we need more spells, not less atm. Our rotations are so simple with mix with uptime talents and a dot to refresh. I mean it doesn't need to be super hard, but it's way too faceroll atm.
    Alright, no hard feelings! =) I tried to stay away from this thread too - too many overboard statements.

  6. #246
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Oh hell no.. Remember arcane before any dots, you just did next to 0 damage each time you moved..



    Then again.. Arcane in my mind needs a complete redesign, but seeing that blizz is rather happy with it atm(from their comments), I don't see that happening.
    My vision for Arcane is being redesigned and having an actual mobile spell (Arcane Missiles?) and not one that ruins your DPS if you use it too early (Arcane Barrage) on top of having a cooldown (IMO ABarr should have no cooldown, because, y'know, it's a fucking BARRAGE, but also do shit for damage at 0 charges).

    So yeah, I want Arcane (and Frost) to have no DoTs, but a complete overhaul for Arcane is in order.


    (Frost I'm actually okay with assuming they remove the DoT, remove L90 talents, and make it actually competitive against Fire/Arcane)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarion View Post
    Man we are a snippy bunch. Why so aggressive fellow mages??
    I, personally, am always snippy because of how much Blizzard has fucked us, and ignorant people who either blindly defend their choices (Really tempted to use the "L-Word" right now...), call us OP purely because of DPS/Simmed DPS, or think our class design is fine just piss me off.

    Trust me, I wasn't like this during BC-Cataclysm. (Well, okay, I was pissed during Cataclysm, but excluding Fire being garbage in Firelands, me being pissed had to do with Cataclysm, not Mage in general)


    As far as this thread goes, people are being derp with what's helpful and what's not. I mean, come on, we wouldn't be Mages without Portals.

  7. #247
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    My vision for Arcane is being redesigned and having an actual mobile spell (Arcane Missiles?) and not one that ruins your DPS if you use it too early (Arcane Barrage) on top of having a cooldown (IMO ABarr should have no cooldown, because, y'know, it's a fucking BARRAGE, but also do shit for damage at 0 charges).

    So yeah, I want Arcane (and Frost) to have no DoTs, but a complete overhaul for Arcane is in order.


    (Frost I'm actually okay with assuming they remove the DoT, remove L90 talents, and make it actually competitive against Fire/Arcane)



    I, personally, am always snippy because of how much Blizzard has fucked us, and ignorant people who either blindly defend their choices (Really tempted to use the "L-Word" right now...), call us OP purely because of DPS/Simmed DPS, or think our class design is fine just piss me off.

    Trust me, I wasn't like this during BC-Cataclysm. (Well, okay, I was pissed during Cataclysm, but excluding Fire being garbage in Firelands, me being pissed had to do with Cataclysm, not Mage in general)


    As far as this thread goes, people are being derp with what's helpful and what's not. I mean, come on, we wouldn't be Mages without Portals.
    I must have missed something. Who was asking to get rid of Portals?

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Methusula View Post
    I must have missed something. Who was asking to get rid of Portals?
    People asked to get rid of Teleports as Portals are providing almost the same utility. A bit too far I think, it doesn't even require a keybind. The "Portal removal" must be a reference to my post where I've mistyped "portals" for "teleports". My bad.

  9. #249
    Brewmaster Methusula's Avatar
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    No biggie.

    I must say, I'm a bit surprised at how fiercely people are defending Teleport. At this point, I think people are being more stubborn than anything else. Don't get me wrong, I would love it if they kept giving us new spells and didn't ever have to give up something in return. I just don't think Mr. Ghostcrab thinks the same way. Maybe with our already smaller spell book, we will be spared when they attempt to "trim the fat".

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    No. Ice Lance is used in PvP even by fire mages because of spell reflect. Fire Blast WAS used in the past by all specs. Arcane Barrage is already arcane only spell.
    I'm aware of that, i just don't think every class should have a tool to deal with spellreflect like that. Current spellreflect is useless and don't cause any decisions for the opposer, because every class has a simple spamable instant cast to remove it. I'd rather every class accually had to cast something into it, or use a short cooldown to remove it or just wait it out. And I don't even have a warrior, still thinking this. I feel the same for Dark Simulacrum and being able to cast a buff such as arcane brilliance on it, and I don't have a DK either.
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    No. You use every one of them in PvP, depending on the comp you're against.
    I'm also aware of this, but my suggestions weren't ment to be applied for 5.4 but rather 6.0 where the game can be reworked diffrently. This would obviously mean that each of the current armors are balanced together with the specs. I'm accually not sure about this point anyway, but they could go into a talent tree instead i guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    I would agree, if Frost Bomb was viable in PvP. It isn't.
    Thats just a subjective opinion, and I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Then enjoy cities being full of portals because mages can't use teleport.
    I don't see a problem in this, they only last a minute, and people are already able to do this if they wanna troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Spellsteal costs 21% of base mana. Mana Gem is used in PvP by all specs.
    Good. I feel that the manacost should mean something. At the moment only arcane has to care about the manabar. I don't want to be able to just spam away on spellsteal for hots like its nothing. It should be a decision, and not spam away on 5 buffs, but rather use it tactical for people that aren't covered putting up 1-2 important buffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    You seriously have no idea how mage works in PvP. You just want to gut this class so you don't feel bad about yourself because you're unable to bind every ability.
    Protip: you don't have to. Just ignore spells that are too hard for you.
    Thanks for being so disrespectful and rude towards me. It's nice to hear you make assumptions about me only because you disagree.
    Protip: This isn't 4chan.

  11. #251
    I feel like the people who are obsessed with the idea of ability bloat ever since the devs started using the term want this game to be diablo 3. Walk into a dungeon with 6 dps spells, use them in a rotation until the loot drops. I understand wanting to remove NECESSARY abilities that aren't FUN. For instance, the level 90 talents. They're an integral part of mage gameplay but almost no one actually enjoys their use. No one looks forward to hitting 90 and getting the privilege of maintaining these talents.

    I don't understand wanting to get rid of our situational and nearly useless abilities. What exactly is gained from losing these abilities? If they're situational, it feels cool to get to use them when the situation comes up. It's what makes WoW gameplay a little more dynamic and complex than a diablo or guild wars system of a few core abilities. It's what adds spark to a class, what breaks up the monotony of "maintain dot/buff, cast filler, use procs, line up cooldowns." And the stuff like conjuring food, teleports/portals, mana gems, fire blast, etc... what do you GAIN if these abilities are taken away? If you don't want to use them, don't keybind them. How is it a burden to have some flavorful entries in the spellbook that you're not required to use, but are there if you want them? The teleport thing, for instance: how about you just don't put teleport on an action bar? Problem solved. The only thing to gain by removing these things is clearing up space in the spellbook, which as a player you spend almost no time in, and it's all neat and alphabetically sorted anyway so who cares if there's a ton of stuff in there?

  12. #252
    Wiep your suggestions on dealing with spell refect are pretty crap and if you think it useless then I question your knowledge of pvp and the skill of people you have been playing against. A good warrior will get you with it when ever it's up which is quite often because it has a super short cd not to mention the addition of mass spell reflect on a 1 min cd so they can do it back to back if needed. The graphic for SR is already not very noticeable and what was left to telegraph it is happening (pull out sword and shield) is going away in 5.4. So if we don't have a low damage, non snaring spell to throw at it then we are screwed. A warrior can already amost global your ass if he gets on top of you but now we have to wait out his SR? If you took away Icelance arcane would have nothing but fireblast on an 8 second cd, fire would also be in bad shape and have to cast a scorch and I'm guessing you are one who is for removing fireblast from frost.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    A good warrior will get you with it when ever it's up
    If that's the case, why would you need a spell to get rid of it -.-
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    it has a super short cd
    It's 25 seconds, not super low to me, just low, but the cooldown can be adjusted accordingly if all classes got baseline cheap instants removed. Casters are casters, not instanters and that applies to everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    The graphic for SR is already not very noticeable and what was left to telegraph it is happening (pull out sword and shield) is going away in 5.4.
    None I've ever played with has had any troubles with that, there are plenty of addons to help you with that, for example LoseControl that I use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    So if we don't have a low damage, non snaring spell to throw at it then we are screwed.
    Now you're just overexaggerating. We're screwed for having to do a cast into it or just kite the 5 seconds?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    A warrior can already amost global your ass if he gets on top of you but now we have to wait out his SR?
    Yes warrior cooldownstacking i will admit is high but that has no relevance to the spell reflect discussion. If you get "globalled" by a warrior because you can't deal with a spell reflect in any other way but to do a fireblast/icelance into it then it's a L2P issue tbh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    If you took away Icelance arcane would have nothing but fireblast on an 8 second cd, fire would also be in bad shape and have to cast a scorch and I'm guessing you are one who is for removing fireblast from frost.
    I guess arcane would have it a bit cheasy, apart from maybe one tick of arcane missiles. I would be fine with fire having to do scorch. Frost still has icelance, only problem is FoF proccs, but in that case frost has great capabilies to stick out the 5 seconds.

  14. #254
    I'm in my phone so I can't really reply to your individual points like you did but ill try and keep it neat. A good warrior will wait until the last possible faction of a cast to pop SR when unless you are anticipating it and fake casting you will get caught. A bad warrior will pop it as soon as you root/snare and get some distance, this is the case where you need icelance to get rid of it. In reference to being gobaled if he has SR up and coming after you with Avatar you have no way to CC, you're fucked unless you have an IB up or a FoF and DF off CD. And when you say I'm exaggerating and casting into SR have you ever had a FB reflect and Blink on CD, its IB or die. Don't really have time for much else I but I will say my point of view is coming from playing against very skilled warriors. Bad one are fun, you just kite in a circle LOLing and dancing but a really good warrior will still destroy your ass if you slip up, counter class or not.
    Last edited by Kenbud; 2013-08-26 at 07:41 PM.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    In reference to being gobaled if he has SR up and coming after you with Avatar you have no way to CC, you're fucked unless you have an IB up or a FoF and DF off CD.
    It's fine if you're on your phone and not able to respond, but I still don't budge on this. Avatar only breaks roots, doesn't make you immune anymore. Assuming you're Frost, Icelance or even a FoF'd icelance would do the trick, and then you could use one of the following:
    - Cone of Cold
    - Blink
    - Mirror Images
    - Alter Time
    - Iceblock
    - Frost Nova
    - Freeze
    - Frozen orb
    to name a few examples. Don't make it sound like you're out of options, because you're not. It's just that you wanna save them to set up damage but sometimes you gotta make choices and sacrifice them to play defensively. This is why i think being able to low-damage instant-cast the warrior's defensive cooldowns for the same cost (1 global) is too big of a counter.

    This wasn't supposed to be a discussion about PvP though but of button bloat. I'd say it's a bloat for PvE for sure, and a possible one for PvP as you're only using for instance icelances as fire for grounding/totems and spellreflect. I think in a new expansion with different balancing, mechanics and perhaps a baseline removal of cheap instants for all classes these changes can be relevant, and thats my personal opinion.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    It's fine if you're on your phone and not able to respond, but I still don't budge on this. Avatar only breaks roots, doesn't make you immune anymore. Assuming you're Frost, Icelance or even a FoF'd icelance would do the trick, and then you could use one of the following:
    - Cone of Cold
    - Blink
    - Mirror Images
    - Alter Time
    - Iceblock
    - Frost Nova
    - Freeze
    - Frozen orb
    to name a few examples. Don't make it sound like you're out of options, because you're not. It's just that you wanna save them to set up damage but sometimes you gotta make choices and sacrifice them to play defensively. This is why i think being able to low-damage instant-cast the warrior's defensive cooldowns for the same cost (1 global) is too big of a counter.

    This wasn't supposed to be a discussion about PvP though but of button bloat. I'd say it's a bloat for PvE for sure, and a possible one for PvP as you're only using for instance icelances as fire for grounding/totems and spellreflect. I think in a new expansion with different balancing, mechanics and perhaps a baseline removal of cheap instants for all classes these changes can be relevant, and thats my personal opinion.
    That is the difference between bad a good players, using all the tools at there disposal effectively is what seperates them. It seems you are totally writing off spellreflect as easily counter able just because we have Icelance. Ill agree it is if its used poorly but if used correctly Icelance won't save you. Without have the luxury of going through my spellbook i will say In any given battleground I use every one of my abilities excluding ports and Flamestrike/Blizzard, the latter two I still use every so often just not every BG. I feel there is no bloat what so ever when it comes to mages. Reading my last few posts I guess I haven't exactly made clear what I was getting at but it is this: I use every trick I can to stay alive and to kill peopl in pvp and although every pve encounter may not be the same you cannot take away abilities in pve but leave them or pvp or vise versa.

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