1. #1

    Arrow Nether tempest early refresh and proccs

    Hello

    In an effort to maximize my DPS in raids I was wondering if I should refresh nether tempest early when I get certain procs.

    Example: My NT has 6 seconds left and I get legendary meta gem haste procc(30%+haste) and Volatile Talisman of Shado-Pan Assault procc (9,483 haste)
    Should I refresh my NT or just let it run its course?

    Example 2: Meta gem procc+ talisman procc about to expire and I have 7 seconds left on my NT, refresh?


    Another scenario I encounter often where do I not know what to do: Wushoolay's Final choice is on it's final tick (+14,3k int) and my NT is about to run out, refresh NT or cast a frostbolt/FoF icelance?

    Here is my armory link: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/the-maelstrom/Swaggabeast/simple

    Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Swaggabeast; 2013-08-27 at 01:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Well for example 1, just refresh NT at the normal time, because your gem and Trinket last 10 secs and will be up when NT falls off.

    Example 2, I'm not sure.

  3. #3
    When meta procs refresh NT and again right before it falls of. For example to refresh nt always when whoosh is at 10 stacks, number one priority.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    When meta procs refresh NT and again right before it falls of. For example to refresh nt always when whoosh is at 10 stacks, number one priority.
    If you refresh NT twice in 8-10 seconds aren't you losing the ticks, maybe more, than you'd gain from the first refresh?

  5. #5
    i use the rule of thumb: if im fairly sure its a waste to refresh i dont, but if im unsure i do since theres missle procs in it for me even if its not a direct DPS gain from the NT, so if im at 4 stacks with 0 or 1 missles and those 2 situations happen i do anyways just for missle chances even with the off chance i lost a tiny bit of dps from that move, sets me off better for overall dmg + mana in the end

  6. #6
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemanaleft View Post
    i use the rule of thumb: if im fairly sure its a waste to refresh i dont, but if im unsure i do since theres missle procs in it for me even if its not a direct DPS gain from the NT, so if im at 4 stacks with 0 or 1 missles and those 2 situations happen i do anyways just for missle chances even with the off chance i lost a tiny bit of dps from that move, sets me off better for overall dmg + mana in the end
    See, but that only works for Arcane. Doesn't do anything for Fire/Frost.


    OT: Ex 1: No point to refresh now.
    Ex 2: Nyeh... Let's say this: If you can fit in another spell before it expires, I'd do that. If you can't, I'd probably refresh. Having half the DoT left is a tough call because we don't have that (SUPER AWESOME) passive ability that Warlocks do (Pandemic I think it's called? It gives 50% of leftover duration into your next DoT)

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by durrtygoodz View Post
    If you refresh NT twice in 8-10 seconds aren't you losing the ticks, maybe more, than you'd gain from the first refresh?
    No if you refresh right when the meta procs abd again before it falls off it's one 9/12 second dot and one 12/12 dot at +30% haste (the x/12 is referring to the station on the dot not the number of ticks) You won't "loose" and ticks except the weaker ones remaining on your first refresh. When it comes to trinket procs with meta it's more of a judgment call on when to snapshot but getting good at it will boost your dps and start to set you apart from other frost mages
    Last edited by Kenbud; 2013-08-27 at 05:39 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    No if you refresh right when the meta procs abd again before it falls off it's one 9/12 second dot and one 12/12 dot at +30% haste.
    The question is not how many ticks u gain. Its how many ticks u loose because if u refresh it every time the meta procs u will sometimes reresh a dot which ticked for only 2 seconds before. This was then a wasted GCD.
    So saying refresh it everytime Meta procs is wrong.
    U should refresh when meta proc and the runtime of the current NT is lesser then x seconds.
    U should refresh when meta is 0.5 sec before expiring and current NT is lesser then y seconds.
    X and Y are the values we are looking for.
    For me x is 3 and y is 4 seconds. But this is more a feeling mixed with some braincalculation than an exact model.

    Beside that: Meta is strong but other things are also strong (like wusho). So only looking at Meta won't bring the best DPS. U have to decide with all procs which is better. The tricky part at NT is BF. Without BF we could create a really simple Addon (for SPriest there is for example an Addon which tells when to refresh).

  9. #9
    We could pretty easily make an affdots addon for this if you either 1. ignored BF procs as frost or 2. assigned an arbirtary value to increased dot ticks in relation to BF. The addon would be perfect for arcane and fire though given enough work
    Last edited by Turkey One; 2013-08-27 at 12:17 PM.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Example 1:
    Let NT run down, refresh as you'll still get a full-powered NT before the procs run off.


    Example 2:
    Depends what you applied NT with in the first place. If you applied it with both buffs, leave it. If you applied with no buffs, refresh it.

  11. #11
    I realized I forgot to say that don't refresh on a meta proc if you are going to loose a good int proc.

  12. #12
    Thanks a bunch for the input guys, let's see how big a DPS increase it will translate into in my next raid.

    Making an Affdots addon for this is definitely interesting. I'm pretty new to this and math sure as h*ell isn't one of my stronger qualities but I don't quite see how you would go around to assigning a value to increased dot ticks in relation to BF. Also I understand it FFB won't deal the 16% extra damage in 5.4 as Mastery:Frostburn is replaced by Mastery:Icicles, so just ignoring the BF factor all together will be more viable 5.4 than 5.3

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swaggabeast View Post
    Also I understand it FFB won't deal the 16% extra damage in 5.4 as Mastery:Frostburn is replaced by Mastery:Icicles, so just ignoring the BF factor all together will be more viable 5.4 than 5.3
    No? BF still gets Bonusdmg because of Mastery in 5.4. I think many people still dont understand icicles. The only different (for BF) between 5.3 and 5.4 is that in 5.3 all the dmg hits with one big hit and in 5.4 u have 2 hits. (one larger one smaller)

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