Mage Ability Bloat-What's for the Chop

[Polarthief]

I think Flamestrike should be changed, of course. Could just serve as fire's version of Blizzard.

But I have used it in ToT on trash, as a pre-cast on Ji-Kun, Megaera wyrms (sometimes), Twin consorts (lurkers), and Lei Shen to great success.

It's fine if you haven't used it, but to say that there is no use for it at all is pretty ignorant.

For my case specifically, my raid leader(s) told me (and the other Mage) not to use AoEs because it's a DPS loss on bosses to bother with it. This pretty much applies to anything with AoE (Megaera Wyrms, Day Phase Twins, and Lei Shen Ball Lightnings), and to just leave it to the other clothies (SPriests and Warlocks).


Should I actually need some long-term AoE, I'd use Flamestrike, but the problem is that a portion of its damage relies on the enemies staying there after using it, AND that they stay in that area, on top of having a cast time and a cooldown. Flamestrike simply has too many negatives tied to it for it to be of any real use outside of a couple niches (as you said, Pre-cast on Ji-Kun)

- Cast Time (used to be instant)
- Cooldown (used to be spammable)
- Not all damage is instant (enemies must stay in the area/stay alive long enough to get the full DPET out of it)
*- Slows enemies

* Is sometimes a bad thing, depending on fights, but I'm not actually counting it; just pointing it out.

I don't want Flamestrike removed, I just want it to not be garbage and back to its former Cataclysm glory. I also want Blastwave back and not tied to a garbage version of Flamestrike.

[Jarion]

I always thought it would be neat if Flamestrike applied a DOT to all the targets it hits, as if they were burning, instead of the silly fire circle mechanic.

[Akraen]

For my case specifically, my raid leader(s) told me (and the other Mage) not to use AoEs because it's a DPS loss on bosses to bother with it. This pretty much applies to anything with AoE (Megaera Wyrms, Day Phase Twins, and Lei Shen Ball Lightnings), and to just leave it to the other clothies (SPriests and Warlocks).


Should I actually need some long-term AoE, I'd use Flamestrike, but the problem is that a portion of its damage relies on the enemies staying there after using it, AND that they stay in that area, on top of having a cast time and a cooldown. Flamestrike simply has too many negatives tied to it for it to be of any real use outside of a couple niches (as you said, Pre-cast on Ji-Kun)

- Cast Time (used to be instant)
- Cooldown (used to be spammable)
- Not all damage is instant (enemies must stay in the area/stay alive long enough to get the full DPET out of it)
*- Slows enemies

* Is sometimes a bad thing, depending on fights, but I'm not actually counting it; just pointing it out.

I don't want Flamestrike removed, I just want it to not be garbage and back to its former Cataclysm glory. I also want Blastwave back and not tied to a garbage version of Flamestrike.

Your raid leader should maybe be less of a micro manager.

[Polarthief]

Your raid leader should maybe be less of a micro manager.

For many attempts on LS, we barely got out of P2 before the 5th Balls. Had us two Mages been attacking them, we probably wouldn't have made it.

... NOT to mention that spreading Combustion will do a LOT more damage to balls than any of our AoEs will.

[Deleted]

It is a rare thing to see mages put up a refreshment table these days, even in raids, unless there is a lot of nagging and asking for it. While everyone else promptly puts up cooking banquets, soul wells, buff everyone and getting ready as soon as they enter an instance, the refreshment table is usually missing, even with lots of mages.

So I am guessing mages have either forgotten they have this spell, or consider it useless. So I'd propose it for the bloat axe.

[Frost1129]

Your raid leader should maybe be less of a micro manager.

Or he's being smart in assigning roles. I do the same thing in my raids.

Overall DPS numbers are pretty much meaningless. Could you toss in a few shitty AoE spells and boost your overall DPS? Sure. But if your main job (and what your class is best at) is dumping damage into a single target and just passively cleaving to help, then you casting AoE is actively hurting your raid. And as fire, you cleave way better than you AoE.

Fights like Tortos and Lei Shen come to mind when talking about DPS target prioritizing and cheesing personal DPS, only to hurt the raid overall.

[Deleted]

We need more buttons if anything.

Removal of armour importance/slowfall dispell protections/rank 1 FB ect made mages skill-less and really unfun to play PvP wise.

[Archiul]

HELLO. We use mana gem in pvp whenever we need ANOTHER spell steal. Do not take it away.

[Polarthief]

Or he's being smart in assigning roles. I do the same thing in my raids.

Overall DPS numbers are pretty much meaningless. Could you toss in a few shitty AoE spells and boost your overall DPS? Sure. But if your main job (and what your class is best at) is dumping damage into a single target and just passively cleaving to help, then you casting AoE is actively hurting your raid. And as fire, you cleave way better than you AoE.

Fights like Tortos and Lei Shen come to mind when talking about DPS target prioritizing and cheesing personal DPS, only to hurt the raid overall.

Omg, anyone who uses overall DPS as the end-all just pisses me off.

"Oh look, Pew doesn't have any ranks as Fire. I guess he's garbage".

Or rather that I do my job, don't scumbag like sitting 100% on Horridon, and I don't have Rogues constantly giving me tricks at my demand.

If I was a Warlock, I totally wouldn't put DoTs on the other head for Megaera either. No point to because it's a true DPS loss.

- - - Updated - - -

We need more buttons if anything.

"Bloat" removal will end up making Arcane a 1 button spec and Fire/Frost a 2 button spec. We really do need more buttons, but we also need DoTs removed. Arcane and Frost (excluding Frostfire Bolt's piddly weak DoT it had) never had DoTs until 5.0. Why we needed them all of a sudden is beyond me... Arcane kinda works well with it though because of its Mastery, so maybe keep it there, but I feel like Frost Bomb or NT should be scrapped completely for a different kind of spell that isn't a DoT (maybe a 1m button like Priests/Paladins have for their L90s?)

[Kenbud]

never had DoTs until 5.0.

Living Bomb has been around since BC homeslice. Well the 2 weeks before wrath but I guess technically we couldn't use it then. Either way its been around a while.

[Frost1129]

Living Bomb has been around since BC homeslice. Well the 2 weeks before wrath but I guess technically we couldn't use it then. Either way its been around a while.

Cutting out half a sentence, why? You're purposely misrepresenting his words. Living Bomb was a deep-fire tree talent - therefore Arcane and Frost never had access to it. Which is exactly what he said - Arcane and Frost never had DoTs.

[Kenbud]

Cutting out half a sentence, why? You're purposely misrepresenting his words. Living Bomb was a deep-fire tree talent - therefore Arcane and Frost never had access to it. Which is exactly what he said - Arcane and Frost never had DoTs.

Not going to lie I read quickly abd missed the part about frost and arcane only, thought it was a general statement for mages. I read and post from my phone during the day so sometimes I miss stuff. Statement redacted. On his topic though I do enjoy NT as frost with super high haste, number everywhere, just keeps up the fast pacedness of the entire spec. I really like the bomb tier only think I would say is something could be done to further spectate LB and NT.

[Frost1129]

Not going to lie I read quickly abd missed the part about frost and arcane only, thought it was a general statement for mages. I read and post from my phone during the day so sometimes I miss stuff. Statement redacted. On his topic though I do enjoy NT as frost with super high haste, number everywhere, just keeps up the fast pacedness of the entire spec. I really like the bomb tier only think I would say is something could be done to further spectate LB and NT.

My personal preference would be to make all the bombs baseline and add more interesting talents in their place. But that's just me.

Stuff like druid DoC or HoTW come to mind when I think of really cool talents.

[Deleted]

Arcane barrage, Fire Blast and Ice lance could be made into one button changing with specialization

Same goes for Armors

Same goes for Arcane explosion, Flamestrike and Blizzard (and obviously rework flamestrike etc)

90talent tiers and bombs-talent tier could be removed/replaced with living bomb being baseline fire.

No use for Teleport when you have portals.

Managem Baseline arcane

I'm all for making each spec more limited to their characteristic element. I don't really like ruining the theme with stuff like casting Frost spells like Ice Barrier when you're Fire.

[Deleted]

Arcane barrage, Fire Blast and Ice lance could be made into one button changing with specialization

No. Ice Lance is used in PvP even by fire mages because of spell reflect. Fire Blast WAS used in the past by all specs. Arcane Barrage is already arcane only spell.

Same goes for Armors

No. You use every one of them in PvP, depending on the comp you're against.

90talent tiers and bombs-talent tier could be removed/replaced with living bomb being baseline fire.

I would agree, if Frost Bomb was viable in PvP. It isn't.

No use for Teleport when you have portals.

Then enjoy cities being full of portals because mages can't use teleport.

Managem Baseline arcane

Spellsteal costs 21% of base mana. Mana Gem is used in PvP by all specs.

You seriously have no idea how mage works in PvP. You just want to gut this class so you don't feel bad about yourself because you're unable to bind every ability.
Protip: you don't have to. Just ignore spells that are too hard for you.

Infracted.

[Kenbud]

How exactly is Frost Bomb not viable in PvP? Just because it gets countered in 2k+ arena doesn't mean it's not viable. It wrecks in lower brackets and RBGs.

[Nightfall]

Then enjoy cities being full of portals because mages can't use teleport.

That's actually a great point! I'm against the removal of teleports, but haven't thought about this aspect.

[worsthitmanNa]

Imo, they should put certain spells to certain specs only.

Ice Lance - Frost
Fire Blast - Fire(Until Inferno Blast)
Arcane Explosion - Arcane
Flamestrike - Fire
Blizzard - Frost
Conjure Mana Gem - Arcane

Fire blast is great vs spell reflect as frost. I switch armors all the time in pvp so they should remain. Arcane explosion and Blizzard are decent. Conjure Mana gem is worthless and the developers should feel bad for not removing it this expansion.

[Polarthief]

Arcane and Frost (excluding Frostfire Bolt's piddly weak DoT it had) never had DoTs until 5.0.

Living Bomb has been around since BC homeslice.

Please stop taking what I say out of context. It's getting REALLY irritating.

My personal preference would be to make all the bombs baseline and add more interesting talents in their place. But that's just me.

Stuff like druid DoC or HoTW come to mind when I think of really cool talents.

Frost Bomb needs to be removed or give NT baseline to Arcane/Frost. Making Frost get FBomb baseline would just be irritating for raid stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

That's actually a great point! I'm against the removal of portals, but haven't thought about this aspect.

I think if Mages lost all ability to teleport, I probably wouldn't play Mage anymore. Hell, that was part of the reason I initially rolled Mage back in BC and every time I play a non-Mage toon, I get so annoyed that I can't go wherever I want, when I want. I enjoy playing the Dr. Mundo class.

[Kenbud]

Please stop taking what I say out of context. It's getting REALLY irritating

I believe that would be the first post I have made out of context and if you would have read a little down from your original post you would have seen I admitted I missed the first part of your post and did infact take it out of context. Sorry sport, my B ill try not to do it again I know how irritated you get.