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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    How do you only have 30 keybinds as a Warlock? I got over twice that.

    So you have 60+ binds on your warlock? 60 binds that is crucial for gameplay?

    I bet i could get 1000 binds if i bound thinkgs like /say Hello! or /wave.

    Want to list your 60+ necessary binds?

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    How do you only have 30 keybinds as a Warlock? I got over twice that.
    I don't know how you have so many. I routinely use about 18. I have other binds but those are not used all that often and I don't think that really qualifies for button bloat.

    i can quite comfortably fit all the buttons I actually need on 3 bars with 12 buttons each.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    So you have 60+ binds on your warlock? 60 binds that is crucial for gameplay?

    I bet i could get 1000 binds if i bound thinkgs like /say Hello! or /wave.

    Want to list your 60+ necessary binds?
    I got 71 keybinds in total:

    1: Pet attack
    2: Corruption/doom
    3: Soul Fire
    4: Shadow bolt/touch of chaos
    5: Metamorphosis
    6: Life drain
    7: Hand of Gul'dan/chaos wave
    8: fel flame
    9: Hellfire
    0: ground mount
    shift + 1: health funnel
    shift + 2: mortal coil
    shift + 3: dark bargain
    shift + 4: carrion swarm
    shift + 5: demonic gateway
    shift + 6: unending resolve
    shift + 7: pvp trinket, extra actionbutton1
    shift + 8: dark soul: knowledge
    shift + 9: intellect potion
    Shift + 0: fly mount
    shift + +: currently vanity item not essential for combat
    alt + 1: curse of the elements
    alt + 2: curse of enfeeblement
    alt + 3: dark intent
    alt + 4: summon: terrorguard
    alt + 5: summon abyssal
    alt + 6: soulstone
    alt + 7: hardened shell, not essential for pve fights but is pretty much necessary if you wish to be able to dismount a hostile player
    alt + 8: currently vanity item not essential for battle
    alt + 9: currently vanity item not essential for battle
    alt + 0: mass resurrection, not essential, but not having it keybinded is a fucking pain
    ctrl + 1: summon wrathguard
    ctrl + 2: summon voidlord
    ctrl + 3: summon observer
    ctrl + 4: summon shivarra
    ctrl + 5: summon fel imp
    R: Fear focus, shift R: fear current target
    Q: Wrathguard: Pursuit
    E: Wrathguard: Felstorm
    T: Wrathguard: axe toss
    Shift + T: Imp Swarm
    Shift + Q: Soul Shatter
    V: Twilight Ward
    Shift + V: Burning Rush/Unbound Will
    Ctrl + V: Create Healthstone
    Shift + F: Banish
    Ctrl + F: Dark Regeneration
    Shift + C: Life Tap
    CTRL + C: Create Soulwell
    CTRL + X: Ritual of Summoning
    Ctrl + D: Use Healthstone
    Shift + X: Bandage
    G: Demonic Circle: Teleport
    Shift + G: Demonic Circle: Summon
    Shift + scroll up: pet put on assist
    shift + scroll down: pet put on passive
    CTRL + scroll up: pet move to
    CTRL + scroll down: pet follow
    Shift + space: demonic leap
    shift + b: nitro boost
    CTRL + T: arcane torrent
    Shift + E: goblin glider
    That's a total of 62, 4 of them were vanity so let's say 58. The rest of the keybinds do not directly affect combat and are things such as gear sets and interface actions, so I excluded those completely.

    (Sidenote, if there's a way to put a show/hide tag on the list that would be great, not entirely sure if there was one here on MMO-champion or if I'm mixing it up with some other forum which did have it.)

    Edit: Missed demonic leap, arcane torrent, goblin glider and nitro boost, so added it in the list.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I don't know how you have so many. I routinely use about 18. I have other binds but those are not used all that often and I don't think that really qualifies for button bloat.

    i can quite comfortably fit all the buttons I actually need on 3 bars with 12 buttons each.
    If having a massive amount of abilities that needs to be keybound because they might be needed in one case or another isn't button bloat, then I don't know what is. I use every single one of my abilities listed fairly regularly. And yes, even goblin glider counts as it has saved my life in some PvE encounters...
    Last edited by Lora Twinblade; 2013-08-19 at 08:42 PM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I got 71 keybinds in total:



    That's a total of 62, 4 of them were vanity so let's say 58. The rest of the keybinds do not directly affect combat and are things such as gear sets and interface actions, so I excluded those completely.

    (Sidenote, if there's a way to put a show/hide tag on the list that would be great, not entirely sure if there was one here on MMO-champion or if I'm mixing it up with some other forum which did have it.)

    Edit: Missed demonic leap, arcane torrent, goblin glider and nitro boost, so added it in the list.
    Hmm... had to look at my own and i realized i had atleast as many. Didnt feel that many to be honest.

    Modifying with shift,ctrl and alt gives you a shitload of binds.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    Hmm... had to look at my own and i realized i had atleast as many. Didnt feel that many to be honest.

    Modifying with shift,ctrl and alt gives you a shitload of binds.
    Now how does it feel to be given even more spells in a coming expansion without giving up some? Do we really need this many to have a fun and complex rotation? I think quite a lot of this can be worked into other spells or put as passives, whilst still keeping the class interesting. I have no interest nor desire to make Warlocks weaker, nor less fun, I want to make them more fun by acquiring new awesome spells that we can use. But to get more spells, I feel that we have to get rid of some of the ones we already have.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Now how does it feel to be given even more spells in a coming expansion without giving up some? Do we really need this many to have a fun and complex rotation? I think quite a lot of this can be worked into other spells or put as passives, whilst still keeping the class interesting. I have no interest nor desire to make Warlocks weaker, nor less fun, I want to make them more fun by acquiring new awesome spells that we can use. But to get more spells, I feel that we have to get rid of some of the ones we already have.
    Dude... i already said a fre pages ago that i would happily give up some shit. I wouldnt mind some spells being merged
    and baked into other spells. Im all for bloating Just if they do it in a good way and dont break any flavor

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I don't know how you have so many. I routinely use about 18. I have other binds but those are not used all that often and I don't think that really qualifies for button bloat.

    i can quite comfortably fit all the buttons I actually need on 3 bars with 12 buttons each.
    I hover pretty close to about 50-ish keybinds on most of my toons, just one example (Destro) is as such:

    ~ Fel Flame
    1 Immolate
    2 Conflag
    3 Shadowburn
    4 Incinerate
    5 Chaos Bolt
    6 Demonic Gates
    7 Create Healthstone (shows stack)
    8 Shows portal
    9 Engineering Belt
    0 Engineering Back
    - Summon Doomguard
    = Service Felhunter (Just for the icon...lol)
    Q Will of the Forsaken
    W Move Forward
    A Strafe Left
    D Strafe Right
    S Backpeddle FTW
    E Fear
    R Havoc
    T Service Felhunter
    F Drain Life
    G Service Voidwalker
    Z Demonic Teleport
    X Ember Tap
    C Tailoring Nets
    V Mount
    ALT ~ Assist Macro
    ALT 1 Darksoul Macro
    ALT 2 Was, and will be, Howl of Terror
    ALT 3 Various Macros (Seduce usually)
    ALT 4 Various Macros
    ALT Q PvP Trinket
    ALT W Fire & Brimstone
    ALT E Focus Macro
    ALT S Eye of Killrog (I actually used this fairly often)
    ALT D Flames of Xoroth
    ALT X Bandage
    SHIFT ~ Soulshatter
    SHIFT Z Tier 60
    SHIFT S Tier 45
    SHIFT X Twilight Ward
    SHIFT A Unending Resolve
    SHIFT D Healthstone
    SHIFT F Nitro Boosts
    SHIFT E Curse of Elements
    SHIFT T Curse of Enfeeblement
    SHIFT R Health Funnel
    SHIFT G Fear Focus
    SHIFT V Flying Mount
    SHIFT B Banish
    Mousewheel Up Tier 30
    Mousewheel Down Rain of Fire
    Mousewheel Click Summon Abysmal
    Mouse 4 Command Demon
    Mouse 5 PTT

    Plus the CTRL pet controls...

    Then of course I have things like Bags, Character pane, Achievements, etc bound as well.

    Here's a pic of my UI:


    I will burn your soul.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    Dude... i already said a fre pages ago that i would happily give up some shit. I wouldnt mind some spells being merged
    and baked into other spells. Im all for bloating Just if they do it in a good way and dont break any flavor
    Sorry, must have missed that. ^^

    And agreed, if they mess it all up and end up making the whole experience worse I will travel over to America and shout at their gates in rage! (Not really, although it would be fun, mostly to see if they came out to see what the issue was about.)

    Looking over the list it does feel a bit difficult to just pluck abilities out of there, so many of them are situational yet awesome in their own way. I suppose what I would miss the least is the curses, which could be applied through other spells along with dark intent which could be changed into an aura.

  9. #109
    I don't think any abilities should be removed just for the purpose of reducing total ability count. If an ability is unfun and doesn't work well, sure, but not just to reduce the ability count.

    The reason I play WoW is because it's a complex game that requires a certain level of mastery to play well. I like the complexity of gameplay and abilities at level 90. I don't think that more abilities should be added, but one of the reasons I didn't like SW:ToR is because I felt there was a relative lack of abilities compared to WoW. Playing that felt like being stuck in WoW at level 40.

    The relative poverty of abilities you can use at any time is also the reason I don't play Diablo a whole lot. I find a small choice of abilities boring.
    Last edited by Elodeon; 2013-08-19 at 09:32 PM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Elodeon View Post
    I don't think any abilities should be removed just for the purpose of reducing total ability count. If an ability is unfun and doesn't work well, sure, but not just to reduce the ability count.

    The reason I play WoW is because it's a complex game that requires a certain level of mastery to play well. I like the complexity of gameplay and abilities at level 90. I don't think that more abilities should be added, but one of the reasons I didn't like SW:ToR is because I felt there was a relative lack of abilities compared to WoW. Playing that felt like being stuck in WoW at level 40.

    The relative poverty of abilities you can use at any time is also the reason I don't play Diablo a whole lot. I find a small choice of abilities boring.
    More abilities will always be added in expansions, it's pretty much expected of them and something lots of players, myself included, look forward too.

    A class doesn't necessarily become more fun nor more complex just because you have more spells, spells which work well with each other and synergize is where you can create real complexity, and tons of fun with how you use the spells.

    Just as an example, I know Dota is a completely different kind of game but just for the sake of the example: In Dota kind of games (dota 2, HoN, LoL etc) you can find lots of heroes with spells that synergize greatly with each other. Each hero tend to only have about 4 spells yet they can be really complicated to pull off well.

    I would rather have say, 5 cool spells which I feel really make a difference, over say 20 spells which I feel are just there taking up space. I'm not saying Warlocks should only have 5 spells, just stating it as an example. Quality over quantity, you know.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    More abilities will always be added in expansions, it's pretty much expected of them and something lots of players, myself included, look forward too.

    A class doesn't necessarily become more fun nor more complex just because you have more spells, spells which work well with each other and synergize is where you can create real complexity, and tons of fun with how you use the spells.

    Just as an example, I know Dota is a completely different kind of game but just for the sake of the example: In Dota kind of games (dota 2, HoN, LoL etc) you can find lots of heroes with spells that synergize greatly with each other. Each hero tend to only have about 4 spells yet they can be really complicated to pull off well.

    I would rather have say, 5 cool spells which I feel really make a difference, over say 20 spells which I feel are just there taking up space. I'm not saying Warlocks should only have 5 spells, just stating it as an example. Quality over quantity, you know.
    I'd say that the only abilities that Warlocks really have that feels "bloaty" to me would be Create Healthstone and Create Soulwell. There's a lot of abilities that we have that have similar purposes, but function differently at a fundamental level.

    Sure, we have a TON of abilities, especially compared to other classes, but I wouldn't want to remove any of them as they have a specific purpose.


    Just one example of this that I've been seeing thrown around in consideration for removal is Twilight Ward. Not only is it a great Shadow/Holy on demand absorb, but we can also synergize it with Dark Bargain for taking way less damage. We can also further synergize with UR+DB+TW.

    Another example of this synergy is Shadow Bulwark + SacPact.


    We're one of the few classes that has this sort of ability synergy, and it's one of the things that makes warlocks so much fun for me. Taking away abilities because of some sort of perceived overflow, while they all serve specific purposes, would reduce the fun of playing a Warlock for me. (And by the nature of how many people who play this game, I'd feel safe in venturing out and saying that it's probably that way for at least a few other people playing as well)


    I'm pretty certain that when Blizzard indicates some sort of problem with ability/button bloat, they're referring to other classes more than us.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I'd say that the only abilities that Warlocks really have that feels "bloaty" to me would be Create Healthstone and Create Soulwell. There's a lot of abilities that we have that have similar purposes, but function differently at a fundamental level.

    Sure, we have a TON of abilities, especially compared to other classes, but I wouldn't want to remove any of them as they have a specific purpose.


    Just one example of this that I've been seeing thrown around in consideration for removal is Twilight Ward. Not only is it a great Shadow/Holy on demand absorb, but we can also synergize it with Dark Bargain for taking way less damage. We can also further synergize with UR+DB+TW.

    Another example of this synergy is Shadow Bulwark + SacPact.


    We're one of the few classes that has this sort of ability synergy, and it's one of the things that makes warlocks so much fun for me. Taking away abilities because of some sort of perceived overflow, while they all serve specific purposes, would reduce the fun of playing a Warlock for me. (And by the nature of how many people who play this game, I'd feel safe in venturing out and saying that it's probably that way for at least a few other people playing as well)


    I'm pretty certain that when Blizzard indicates some sort of problem with ability/button bloat, they're referring to other classes more than us.
    I agree to a point, which is why I said that it is indeed quite difficult to just remove an ability from the list. Looking over it, I wish to keep almost all of it. But at the same time, as I mentioned, in order to keep room for new spells some old ones has to go. It doesn't necessarily have to be a straight out removal of the spell, the new spell could in fact be a new and improved version of a spell that we already have.

    Twilight Ward is definitely a spell I wish to keep, primarily for, as you mentioned, its great synergy with Dark Bargain. Synergy between spells is the A and O in making a class fun, and in this case Twilight Ward is such a spell.

    As I also previously mentioned, I have no desire nor interest in making the Warlock class less fun, the point is the opposite of that. I do not wish to remove any abilities that other people enjoy, I am merely stating my opinion that we have a hell of a lot of abilities and in order to make room for more we should look over the ones we have and ask ourselves if all of them are truly necessary.

    Blizzard do indeed speak of more classes than just Warlocks when they speak of the button bloat issue, I highly doubt we are the only class with this kind of issue.
    Last edited by Lora Twinblade; 2013-08-19 at 11:25 PM. Reason: typo

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I agree to a point, which is why I said that it is indeed quite difficult to just remove an ability from the list. Looking over it, I wish to keep almost all of it. But at the same time, as I mentioned, in order to keep room for new spells some old ones has to go. It doesn't necessarily have to be a straight out removal of the spell, the new spell could in fact be a new and improved version of a spell that we already have.

    Twilight Ward is definitely a spell I wish to keep, primarily for, as you mentioned, its great synergy with Dark Bargain. Synergy between spells is the A and O in making a class fun, and in this case Twilight Ward is such a spell.

    As I also previously mentioned, I have no desire nor interest in making the Warlock class less fun, the point is the opposite of that. I do not wish to remove any abilities that other people enjoy, I am merely stating my opinion that we have a hell of a lot of abilities and in order to make room for more we should look over the ones we have and ask ourselves if all of them are truly necessary.

    Blizzard do indeed speak of more classes than just Warlocks when they speak of the button bloat issue, I highly doubt we are the only class with this kind of issue.
    I guess I just don't understand the reasoning behind why we have to remove abilities to make room for more.

  14. #114
    Remove soulswap. Completely. Affliction is not about copy paste! Alternatively, make Soulburn-soulswap the baseline ability, and give it a cooldown.
    Bake CoE into each specs primary dot (coa, doom, immo) as a secondary effect (like mage bomb talent does).
    Drop nether wards. Buff the first talent tier if you want to.. I don't think anyone would notice.
    Drop fel flame, make the filler castable while moving (at a damage loss if cast while moving if needed). If KJC still exists, maybe allow it to remove the damage penalty, and allow execute spells to be cast while moving (drainsoul, soulfire, chaos bolt).
    Make all our self buffs into toggleable abilities like pet abilities. eg you toggle soullink on and off.
    Remove soulburn completely. Add a conditional to pets if need be - ie, pet cast are instant, with a debuff that adds a casttime for a while if cast during combat. Overall, I think the demo model for re-summoning pets is okay too.
    Remove CoW and CoT - I don't pvp, maybe these have a place there.
    Remove portal. Wtf was that. How is it ever going to be balancable. I don't want to be nerfed on dps because I bring too much raid utility.

    oh, and just because I really hate click-based abilities -
    Make a glyph for rain of fire cast that makes it cast at my current target. Please please please please.
    Last edited by rijn dael; 2013-08-20 at 01:54 AM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I got 71 keybinds in total:



    That's a total of 62, 4 of them were vanity so let's say 58. The rest of the keybinds do not directly affect combat and are things such as gear sets and interface actions, so I excluded those completely.

    (Sidenote, if there's a way to put a show/hide tag on the list that would be great, not entirely sure if there was one here on MMO-champion or if I'm mixing it up with some other forum which did have it.)

    Edit: Missed demonic leap, arcane torrent, goblin glider and nitro boost, so added it in the list.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If having a massive amount of abilities that needs to be keybound because they might be needed in one case or another isn't button bloat, then I don't know what is. I use every single one of my abilities listed fairly regularly. And yes, even goblin glider counts as it has saved my life in some PvE encounters...
    you really need to rethink about some of those binds, and practice some accuracy for clicking which will decrease the pain factor of playing this bind-fest you have!
    green is the color!

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I guess I just don't understand the reasoning behind why we have to remove abilities to make room for more.
    Because one can only have so many keybinds, at some point it's no longer possible to keep track or make use of all of them... Could you make good use of 500 different spells at the same time? Exaggeration, I know, but just piling spells upon spells without ever considering if the ones we currently have are really needed is not a good idea. You will end up with far too many abilities that really no longer serve much of a purpose and just take up space.

    Blizzard has been working against the button bloat for some time, it's not something that will be new in the next expansion. They worked on it with MoP as well when they moved more spells into respective specializations, and turned some spells into passives.

    Touch of Chaos is an excellent example of a new yet still old spell, it's a rework on Shadowbolt which allowed us to keep it yet still get something new. Incinerate and Immolate was moved away from Demonology entirely. I'm sure there were more changes that I don't really recall at the moment, but more of these changes will come, and they are necessary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Akakishin View Post
    you really need to rethink about some of those binds, and practice some accuracy for clicking which will decrease the pain factor of playing this bind-fest you have!
    My keybinds work fine, I have no trouble with them at the moment. Clicking on the other hand would be a real pain, and I will never do that again...
    Last edited by Lora Twinblade; 2013-08-20 at 08:59 AM.

  17. #117
    Chaozu you are a nub you dont have a bind for Symbiosis.
    /kidding

    I havent got a lot of binds since i'm left-handed and got no OMFG-PRO gaming mouse and I'm not used to shift and ctrl (put your right hand over ASDW. It's either CTRL SHIFT or ALT, not both). And the game REALLY shouldn't be designed around everyone having a gaming mouse.

    So from your binds I dont have these:
    shift + 7: pvp trinket, extra actionbutton1
    shift + 9: intellect potion

    You will hardly never need to use trinket and int potion together, since int potion is PVE exclusive and trinket is PVP exclusive. Except if trinkets are "on use". So, only one of those at a time.

    alt + 4: summon: terrorguard
    alt + 5: summon abyssal
    Shift + Q: Soul Shatter

    Big cooldowns, rare use. One of the 1st skills not-to-bind. Or maybe to be bount to a very distant key.

    CTRL + C: Create Soulwell
    CTRL + X: Ritual of Summoning
    Ctrl + V: Create Healthstone

    Out-of combat utility spells. Really not worth binding. It can be even [nocombat] macro'd.

    ctrl + 1: summon wrathguard
    ctrl + 2: summon voidlord
    ctrl + 3: summon observer
    ctrl + 4: summon shivarra
    ctrl + 5: summon fel imp

    Scarce use in PVP. Almost zero use in PVE (mid-fight).

    Ctrl + F: Dark Regeneration
    Ctrl + D: Use Healthstone

    Macro'd. yeah i'm a nub, it can be a deadly overheal in PVP.

    CTRL + scroll up: pet move to
    How many times do you have to use this? Kan rethad and Jin Rokh (if no GoSac)? Arena corners maybe if your pet cant reach stun?

    Shift + E: goblin glider

    So I've just cut 15 binds from your list and can still do pretty well without them.
    Ah, /flex.
    Last edited by Tinkertee; 2013-08-20 at 11:40 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    Chaozu you are a nub you dont have a bind for Symbiosis.
    /kidding
    The day a druid actually casts symbiosis on me is the day I keybind it. Generally speaking they always have better options from other classes, and we get a lovely rejuvenation.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    You will hardly never need to use trinket and int potion together, since int potion is PVE exclusive and trinket is PVP exclusive. Except if trinkets are "on use". So, only one of those at a time.
    You missed the fact that I also have ExtraActionButton1 on that hotkey, which is used in boss fights, Tortos for example. I'm always the one in our guild who kicks the shells.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    alt + 4: summon: terrorguard
    alt + 5: summon abyssal
    Shift + Q: Soul Shatter

    Big cooldowns, rare use. One of the 1st skills not-to-bind. Or maybe to be bount to a very distant key.
    Any and all abilities that would ever be used in combat, no matter how scarcely, must be bound for me, I don't feel comfortable with it otherwise. Clicking is not an option at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    CTRL + C: Create Soulwell
    CTRL + X: Ritual of Summoning
    Shift + G: Demonic Circle: Summon

    Out-of combat utility spells. Really not worth binding. It can be even [nocombat] macro'd.
    Demonic Circle is most certainly not an out of combat ability, I use it in combat far more times than out of combat. As for the others, sure those are primarily used out of combat but I still want them key-bound.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    ctrl + 1: summon wrathguard
    ctrl + 2: summon voidlord
    ctrl + 3: summon observer
    ctrl + 4: summon shivarra
    ctrl + 5: summon fel imp

    Scarce use in PVP. Almost zero use in PVE (mid-fight).
    Not having my pets key-bound would make me feel handicapped, be it that the pet dies or I actually do need to switch pet, they must be key-bound.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    Ctrl + F: Dark Regeneration
    Ctrl + D: Use Healthstone

    Macro'd. yeah i'm a nub, it can be a deadly overheal in PVP.
    I don't want them macro'd together, there are times when I don't need both in PvE fights.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    CTRL + scroll up: pet move to
    How many times do you have to use this? Kan rethad and Jin Rokh (if no GoSac)? Arena corners maybe if your pet cant reach stun?
    It's perhaps not something that is exclusively necessary all that often, none the less I use it from time to time and I would again feel handicapped if it wasn't key-bound.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    Shift + E: goblin glider
    What about the goblin glider?

    Quote Originally Posted by wkrueger View Post
    So I've just cut 15 binds from your list and can still do pretty well without them.
    Ah, /flex to you.
    Actually no, you didn't cut out a single one.
    Last edited by Lora Twinblade; 2013-08-20 at 11:48 AM. Reason: typo

  19. #119
    Well if I had a gaming mouse or got used with ctrl shift I'd probably bind them all. Or if I were less lazy. /qq
    Demonic Circle: Summon was a typo (its super important).

    @thread
    I really like the state of demo. On the other hand, I agree that removing SB + SS would be a good shot.
    Last edited by Tinkertee; 2013-08-20 at 11:55 AM.

  20. #120
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
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    I agree that removing SB + SS would be a good shot.
    While I wholehartly agree on its removal, what does it do for the button bloat? Do people realy make macros for it?
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

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