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I got 71 keybinds in total:
That's a total of 62, 4 of them were vanity so let's say 58. The rest of the keybinds do not directly affect combat and are things such as gear sets and interface actions, so I excluded those completely.1: Pet attack
2: Corruption/doom
3: Soul Fire
4: Shadow bolt/touch of chaos
5: Metamorphosis
6: Life drain
7: Hand of Gul'dan/chaos wave
8: fel flame
9: Hellfire
0: ground mount
shift + 1: health funnel
shift + 2: mortal coil
shift + 3: dark bargain
shift + 4: carrion swarm
shift + 5: demonic gateway
shift + 6: unending resolve
shift + 7: pvp trinket, extra actionbutton1
shift + 8: dark soul: knowledge
shift + 9: intellect potion
Shift + 0: fly mount
shift + +: currently vanity item not essential for combat
alt + 1: curse of the elements
alt + 2: curse of enfeeblement
alt + 3: dark intent
alt + 4: summon: terrorguard
alt + 5: summon abyssal
alt + 6: soulstone
alt + 7: hardened shell, not essential for pve fights but is pretty much necessary if you wish to be able to dismount a hostile player
alt + 8: currently vanity item not essential for battle
alt + 9: currently vanity item not essential for battle
alt + 0: mass resurrection, not essential, but not having it keybinded is a fucking pain
ctrl + 1: summon wrathguard
ctrl + 2: summon voidlord
ctrl + 3: summon observer
ctrl + 4: summon shivarra
ctrl + 5: summon fel imp
R: Fear focus, shift R: fear current target
Q: Wrathguard: Pursuit
E: Wrathguard: Felstorm
T: Wrathguard: axe toss
Shift + T: Imp Swarm
Shift + Q: Soul Shatter
V: Twilight Ward
Shift + V: Burning Rush/Unbound Will
Ctrl + V: Create Healthstone
Shift + F: Banish
Ctrl + F: Dark Regeneration
Shift + C: Life Tap
CTRL + C: Create Soulwell
CTRL + X: Ritual of Summoning
Ctrl + D: Use Healthstone
Shift + X: Bandage
G: Demonic Circle: Teleport
Shift + G: Demonic Circle: Summon
Shift + scroll up: pet put on assist
shift + scroll down: pet put on passive
CTRL + scroll up: pet move to
CTRL + scroll down: pet follow
Shift + space: demonic leap
shift + b: nitro boost
CTRL + T: arcane torrent
Shift + E: goblin glider
(Sidenote, if there's a way to put a show/hide tag on the list that would be great, not entirely sure if there was one here on MMO-champion or if I'm mixing it up with some other forum which did have it.)
Edit: Missed demonic leap, arcane torrent, goblin glider and nitro boost, so added it in the list.
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If having a massive amount of abilities that needs to be keybound because they might be needed in one case or another isn't button bloat, then I don't know what is. I use every single one of my abilities listed fairly regularly. And yes, even goblin glider counts as it has saved my life in some PvE encounters...
Last edited by mmoce2fa46bcbe; 2013-08-19 at 08:42 PM.
Now how does it feel to be given even more spells in a coming expansion without giving up some? Do we really need this many to have a fun and complex rotation? I think quite a lot of this can be worked into other spells or put as passives, whilst still keeping the class interesting. I have no interest nor desire to make Warlocks weaker, nor less fun, I want to make them more fun by acquiring new awesome spells that we can use. But to get more spells, I feel that we have to get rid of some of the ones we already have.
I hover pretty close to about 50-ish keybinds on most of my toons, just one example (Destro) is as such:
~ Fel Flame
1 Immolate
2 Conflag
3 Shadowburn
4 Incinerate
5 Chaos Bolt
6 Demonic Gates
7 Create Healthstone (shows stack)
8 Shows portal
9 Engineering Belt
0 Engineering Back
- Summon Doomguard
= Service Felhunter (Just for the icon...lol)
Q Will of the Forsaken
W Move Forward
A Strafe Left
D Strafe Right
S Backpeddle FTW
E Fear
R Havoc
T Service Felhunter
F Drain Life
G Service Voidwalker
Z Demonic Teleport
X Ember Tap
C Tailoring Nets
V Mount
ALT ~ Assist Macro
ALT 1 Darksoul Macro
ALT 2 Was, and will be, Howl of Terror
ALT 3 Various Macros (Seduce usually)
ALT 4 Various Macros
ALT Q PvP Trinket
ALT W Fire & Brimstone
ALT E Focus Macro
ALT S Eye of Killrog (I actually used this fairly often)
ALT D Flames of Xoroth
ALT X Bandage
SHIFT ~ Soulshatter
SHIFT Z Tier 60
SHIFT S Tier 45
SHIFT X Twilight Ward
SHIFT A Unending Resolve
SHIFT D Healthstone
SHIFT F Nitro Boosts
SHIFT E Curse of Elements
SHIFT T Curse of Enfeeblement
SHIFT R Health Funnel
SHIFT G Fear Focus
SHIFT V Flying Mount
SHIFT B Banish
Mousewheel Up Tier 30
Mousewheel Down Rain of Fire
Mousewheel Click Summon Abysmal
Mouse 4 Command Demon
Mouse 5 PTT
Plus the CTRL pet controls...
Then of course I have things like Bags, Character pane, Achievements, etc bound as well.
Here's a pic of my UI:
I will burn your soul.
Sorry, must have missed that. ^^
And agreed, if they mess it all up and end up making the whole experience worse I will travel over to America and shout at their gates in rage! (Not really, although it would be fun, mostly to see if they came out to see what the issue was about.)
Looking over the list it does feel a bit difficult to just pluck abilities out of there, so many of them are situational yet awesome in their own way. I suppose what I would miss the least is the curses, which could be applied through other spells along with dark intent which could be changed into an aura.
I don't think any abilities should be removed just for the purpose of reducing total ability count. If an ability is unfun and doesn't work well, sure, but not just to reduce the ability count.
The reason I play WoW is because it's a complex game that requires a certain level of mastery to play well. I like the complexity of gameplay and abilities at level 90. I don't think that more abilities should be added, but one of the reasons I didn't like SW:ToR is because I felt there was a relative lack of abilities compared to WoW. Playing that felt like being stuck in WoW at level 40.
The relative poverty of abilities you can use at any time is also the reason I don't play Diablo a whole lot. I find a small choice of abilities boring.
Last edited by Elodeon; 2013-08-19 at 09:32 PM.
More abilities will always be added in expansions, it's pretty much expected of them and something lots of players, myself included, look forward too.
A class doesn't necessarily become more fun nor more complex just because you have more spells, spells which work well with each other and synergize is where you can create real complexity, and tons of fun with how you use the spells.
Just as an example, I know Dota is a completely different kind of game but just for the sake of the example: In Dota kind of games (dota 2, HoN, LoL etc) you can find lots of heroes with spells that synergize greatly with each other. Each hero tend to only have about 4 spells yet they can be really complicated to pull off well.
I would rather have say, 5 cool spells which I feel really make a difference, over say 20 spells which I feel are just there taking up space. I'm not saying Warlocks should only have 5 spells, just stating it as an example. Quality over quantity, you know.
I'd say that the only abilities that Warlocks really have that feels "bloaty" to me would be Create Healthstone and Create Soulwell. There's a lot of abilities that we have that have similar purposes, but function differently at a fundamental level.
Sure, we have a TON of abilities, especially compared to other classes, but I wouldn't want to remove any of them as they have a specific purpose.
Just one example of this that I've been seeing thrown around in consideration for removal is Twilight Ward. Not only is it a great Shadow/Holy on demand absorb, but we can also synergize it with Dark Bargain for taking way less damage. We can also further synergize with UR+DB+TW.
Another example of this synergy is Shadow Bulwark + SacPact.
We're one of the few classes that has this sort of ability synergy, and it's one of the things that makes warlocks so much fun for me. Taking away abilities because of some sort of perceived overflow, while they all serve specific purposes, would reduce the fun of playing a Warlock for me. (And by the nature of how many people who play this game, I'd feel safe in venturing out and saying that it's probably that way for at least a few other people playing as well)
I'm pretty certain that when Blizzard indicates some sort of problem with ability/button bloat, they're referring to other classes more than us.
Legion Destro Guide | Active Developer of EventHorizon Continued
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I agree to a point, which is why I said that it is indeed quite difficult to just remove an ability from the list. Looking over it, I wish to keep almost all of it. But at the same time, as I mentioned, in order to keep room for new spells some old ones has to go. It doesn't necessarily have to be a straight out removal of the spell, the new spell could in fact be a new and improved version of a spell that we already have.
Twilight Ward is definitely a spell I wish to keep, primarily for, as you mentioned, its great synergy with Dark Bargain. Synergy between spells is the A and O in making a class fun, and in this case Twilight Ward is such a spell.
As I also previously mentioned, I have no desire nor interest in making the Warlock class less fun, the point is the opposite of that. I do not wish to remove any abilities that other people enjoy, I am merely stating my opinion that we have a hell of a lot of abilities and in order to make room for more we should look over the ones we have and ask ourselves if all of them are truly necessary.
Blizzard do indeed speak of more classes than just Warlocks when they speak of the button bloat issue, I highly doubt we are the only class with this kind of issue.
Last edited by mmoce2fa46bcbe; 2013-08-19 at 11:25 PM. Reason: typo
Legion Destro Guide | Active Developer of EventHorizon Continued
Armory | Mythic Kill Videos! | Twitch Live Stream (mostly farm)
Remove soulswap. Completely. Affliction is not about copy paste! Alternatively, make Soulburn-soulswap the baseline ability, and give it a cooldown.
Bake CoE into each specs primary dot (coa, doom, immo) as a secondary effect (like mage bomb talent does).
Drop nether wards. Buff the first talent tier if you want to.. I don't think anyone would notice.
Drop fel flame, make the filler castable while moving (at a damage loss if cast while moving if needed). If KJC still exists, maybe allow it to remove the damage penalty, and allow execute spells to be cast while moving (drainsoul, soulfire, chaos bolt).
Make all our self buffs into toggleable abilities like pet abilities. eg you toggle soullink on and off.
Remove soulburn completely. Add a conditional to pets if need be - ie, pet cast are instant, with a debuff that adds a casttime for a while if cast during combat. Overall, I think the demo model for re-summoning pets is okay too.
Remove CoW and CoT - I don't pvp, maybe these have a place there.
Remove portal. Wtf was that. How is it ever going to be balancable. I don't want to be nerfed on dps because I bring too much raid utility.
oh, and just because I really hate click-based abilities -
Make a glyph for rain of fire cast that makes it cast at my current target. Please please please please.
Last edited by rijn dael; 2013-08-20 at 01:54 AM.
Because one can only have so many keybinds, at some point it's no longer possible to keep track or make use of all of them... Could you make good use of 500 different spells at the same time? Exaggeration, I know, but just piling spells upon spells without ever considering if the ones we currently have are really needed is not a good idea. You will end up with far too many abilities that really no longer serve much of a purpose and just take up space.
Blizzard has been working against the button bloat for some time, it's not something that will be new in the next expansion. They worked on it with MoP as well when they moved more spells into respective specializations, and turned some spells into passives.
Touch of Chaos is an excellent example of a new yet still old spell, it's a rework on Shadowbolt which allowed us to keep it yet still get something new. Incinerate and Immolate was moved away from Demonology entirely. I'm sure there were more changes that I don't really recall at the moment, but more of these changes will come, and they are necessary.
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My keybinds work fine, I have no trouble with them at the moment. Clicking on the other hand would be a real pain, and I will never do that again...
Last edited by mmoce2fa46bcbe; 2013-08-20 at 08:59 AM.
Chaozu you are a nub you dont have a bind for Symbiosis.
/kidding
I havent got a lot of binds since i'm left-handed and got no OMFG-PRO gaming mouse and I'm not used to shift and ctrl (put your right hand over ASDW. It's either CTRL SHIFT or ALT, not both). And the game REALLY shouldn't be designed around everyone having a gaming mouse.
So from your binds I dont have these:
shift + 7: pvp trinket, extra actionbutton1
shift + 9: intellect potion
You will hardly never need to use trinket and int potion together, since int potion is PVE exclusive and trinket is PVP exclusive. Except if trinkets are "on use". So, only one of those at a time.
alt + 4: summon: terrorguard
alt + 5: summon abyssal
Shift + Q: Soul Shatter
Big cooldowns, rare use. One of the 1st skills not-to-bind. Or maybe to be bount to a very distant key.
CTRL + C: Create Soulwell
CTRL + X: Ritual of Summoning
Ctrl + V: Create Healthstone
Out-of combat utility spells. Really not worth binding. It can be even [nocombat] macro'd.
ctrl + 1: summon wrathguard
ctrl + 2: summon voidlord
ctrl + 3: summon observer
ctrl + 4: summon shivarra
ctrl + 5: summon fel imp
Scarce use in PVP. Almost zero use in PVE (mid-fight).
Ctrl + F: Dark Regeneration
Ctrl + D: Use Healthstone
Macro'd. yeah i'm a nub, it can be a deadly overheal in PVP.
CTRL + scroll up: pet move to
How many times do you have to use this? Kan rethad and Jin Rokh (if no GoSac)? Arena corners maybe if your pet cant reach stun?
Shift + E: goblin glider
So I've just cut 15 binds from your list and can still do pretty well without them.
Ah, /flex.
Last edited by Tinkertee; 2013-08-20 at 11:40 AM.
The day a druid actually casts symbiosis on me is the day I keybind it. Generally speaking they always have better options from other classes, and we get a lovely rejuvenation.
You missed the fact that I also have ExtraActionButton1 on that hotkey, which is used in boss fights, Tortos for example. I'm always the one in our guild who kicks the shells.
Any and all abilities that would ever be used in combat, no matter how scarcely, must be bound for me, I don't feel comfortable with it otherwise. Clicking is not an option at all.
Demonic Circle is most certainly not an out of combat ability, I use it in combat far more times than out of combat. As for the others, sure those are primarily used out of combat but I still want them key-bound.
Not having my pets key-bound would make me feel handicapped, be it that the pet dies or I actually do need to switch pet, they must be key-bound.
I don't want them macro'd together, there are times when I don't need both in PvE fights.
It's perhaps not something that is exclusively necessary all that often, none the less I use it from time to time and I would again feel handicapped if it wasn't key-bound.
What about the goblin glider?
Actually no, you didn't cut out a single one.
Last edited by mmoce2fa46bcbe; 2013-08-20 at 11:48 AM. Reason: typo
Well if I had a gaming mouse or got used with ctrl shift I'd probably bind them all. Or if I were less lazy. /qq
Demonic Circle: Summon was a typo (its super important).
@thread
I really like the state of demo. On the other hand, I agree that removing SB + SS would be a good shot.
Last edited by Tinkertee; 2013-08-20 at 11:55 AM.
While I wholehartly agree on its removal, what does it do for the button bloat? Do people realy make macros for it?I agree that removing SB + SS would be a good shot.