Ability Bloat: Priest Edition

[Siri]

Also to counter Summon Gargoyle

[Thirteen]

Inner Fire needs to go and be completely Passive, Will can be the same way or stance change like paladins old seals or something...

Renew is crap has been for a long time it could go or needs to be integrated into a spell...

Shackle either needs to go or become usable on players...

Lightwell has always been dumb imo, needs to go...

these are a few of my opinions...

I'm not sure where this is coming from. Neither Renew, nor Lightwell, nor Shackle need to be removed or changed. Lightwell and Renew are quite frankly amazing, I can't understand where you're getting dumb from them. If you're not using Lightwell or Renew, you're doing holy wrong. And Shackle is castable on players - Death Knights with an active Lichborne anyway, and even if not, is still useful in PvP, specifically against Death Knights and their gargoyles/ghouls.

What do you use shackle for in PvP beyond DKs with lichborn up and ghouls?

I think the fact that you can use it to entirely shut down a spell as powerful as Gargoyle makes it good, though it obviously sees more use in battlegrounds than arenas. But I'm not gonna lie, I wouldn't mind it shackling Aberrations as well, if purely for PvE purposes.

I want nothing to go. On the contrary, I want Mind Soothe back, and access to the abilities as it was before the new talents. I want to be able to use Smite while in a shadow specialisation, just because. I am in no need of the game to restrict the fun that I can have with my character because "that is not performance-efficient." The vast majority of players with priests don't even use macros for anything really. The bloat comes only to those that use tenths of them for whatever reason. I think it's time the game stopped becoming incresingly restricted, and thus boring, all the time just to satisfy a few players, and allowed people to have some fun instead.

Seriously, this. As a holy priest, I can't fathom why they would take away spells like Mind Blast or Mind Spike. It's not like I find myself DPSing at some point in raids. Yes, occasionally I'll throw a Holy Fire or a Smite, but the damage is rarely enough to make a real difference. At worst it just gives holy an extra damage school in PvP, but even then, I don't feel like it's that big a deal. We had Mind Spike in Cataclysm and it's not like we were running around arenas and battlegrounds wrecking people with it. Shadow Priests even lost most of their heals and I have no clue why.

[tiporispit]

Keybinds are so WotLK. Make 2400mmr keyboard turning, backpeddling and clicking and then you get street cred.

[veiledy0]

Shadow Priests even lost most of their heals and I have no clue why.

They took away our heals in exchange for DPS buffs. loljk

[Deleted]

Dont have issues with Ability Bloat.
I actually use 26 of my 36 keybinds pretty often during raiding.

The others are occasionally, like confess / fortitude / prospect / Inner Will/fire enz enz

[Danner]

Ability Bloat, what to cut, PVE holy centric:

Mind Soothe is the obvious first candidate of a spell to die. The spell could have been awesome had it had a visual indicator on the range. But alas, the spell is a pointless relic from an era where spells were unintuitive and unhelpful. Nowadays it needs to die.

Shackle Undead is virtually useless. Haven't cast the spell since WoTLK I think. Kill it with fire. Or put it into the T1 talent line or something.

Resurrect and Mass Resurrect should also be merged. The mass ress CD is honestly just annoying. Drop it.

Renew and PWS sort of fill the same niche - buffer up a heal. Do we really need both? I mean, from a flavour point of view.
IMO, general priests should only have PWS, but holy should get renew instead of PWS. Talents like Body and Soul would have to be reworked to work on Renew for Holy under a similar cooldown scheme. Disc loses renew, but should get some compensation elsewhere. Shadow loses renew, but can just get a slightly stronger PWS. No sweat. One less button.

Binding Heal and Flash Heal are rather similar in single target output (mostly), and cost the same amount of mana. Why not merge them, so that you always cast Binding Heal?

On the Holy Front, Chakra (the stance mechanic) needs to die a violent death involving chainsaws and fire. This will clear up a crapton of buttons. Also, having both chakra stances and armor stances is redundant. "Do I pick serenity + inner will + renew style today, or maybe I should go for serentiy + inner fire + somewhat flash heal heavy, or maybe sanctuary + poh + coh combos... eh, it doesn't matter, now does it? I'll just go with whatever and adapt my spell selection accordingly."

One spell I have always been in favour of killing is Heal. Sure it's low-cost, but it's not really effective. Being forced to use it means being forced to run at snail pace. It's NOT FUN! "Yay I reached level 100; i'm now the epitome healer able to command the holy light with the snap of my fingers... or not. Let's stick to what I did at level 15 for another 200 itemlevels until I can get to the point where I can use all the cool toys I used at level 90". While Heal is far better now than it was in Cata, it's still not really a necessary addon to my spec. I'd rather have the armor stances affect this - a efficiency stance (inner will) and a throughput stance (inner fire) - than having two spells doing the same thing (single target workhorse healing).

As they are today, Inner Fire and Inner Will isn't really an interesting choice in PVE. It's Inner Fire or bust, unless you really have to move really fast, in which case it's Body & Soul that is the answer.

For PVE players, every single spell in the first tier of talent is totally useless. I have cast Psyfiend twice this expansion. Once to look at it, once as a mistake when I was unbinding the key. Which means I also forget about it when I do stumble into PVP. And do we really need this AND psychic scream?

Chakra (the attack spell) is also pretty stupid in PVE. It does less DPS than smite, and it has a cooldown, and every mob in existance is immune to the disorient effect. What's the point? (yeah yeah. PVP only. I know. Just saying it is useless, and bad design!). Sanctuary (the healing spell) is also rather stupid. It has an atrocious mana-per-healing ratio; it's only really ever worth considering casting if you happen to drown in mana (hah! as if!), and it's not really healing for a lot anyway. Kill it and I wouldn't care. Let me have Serenity (the healing spell) all the time, and life would be amazing.

I also believe my racial Arcane Torrent is bordering on stupidity, and certainly well past redundancy. Every 2 minutes... I can cast a free "Heal" spell. Yay me! Where can I thank the developers for this incredible boon? *pokes the sarcasm meter for not reacting strongly enough*

Finally; not really sure my holypriest needs SW: Death.

[veiledy0]

Shackle Undead is virtually useless. Haven't cast the spell since WoTLK I think. Kill it with fire. Or put it into the T1 talent line or something.

Shackle Undead is a very useful spell. Haven't spent a day at max level without using it at least once or twice.

Renew and PWS sort of fill the same niche - buffer up a heal. Do we really need both? I mean, from a flavour point of view.
IMO, general priests should only have PWS, but holy should get renew instead of PWS. Talents like Body and Soul would have to be reworked to work on Renew for Holy under a similar cooldown scheme. Disc loses renew, but should get some compensation elsewhere. Shadow loses renew, but can just get a slightly stronger PWS. No sweat. One less button.

Renew is a very important spell for both Shadow and Discipline

For PVE players, every single spell in the first tier of talent is totally useless. I have cast Psyfiend twice this expansion. Once to look at it, once as a mistake when I was unbinding the key. Which means I also forget about it when I do stumble into PVP. And do we really need this AND psychic scream?

Chakra (the attack spell) is also pretty stupid in PVE. It does less DPS than smite, and it has a cooldown, and every mob in existance is immune to the disorient effect. What's the point? (yeah yeah. PVP only. I know. Just saying it is useless, and bad design!)

What if I told you not this entire game is about PvE? PvP is an as equally important aspect of the game. You saying to remove abilities 'cause you don't use them in PvE is like saying remove taunt 'cause no one uses it in PvP.

[Danner]

Glad to see some counterarguments!

Shackle Undead I must admit I don't see the usecase for. Maybe shackling some ghouls in PVP. But in PVE, there just ain't a usecase. Last time I was on shackle duty was in Icecrown Citadel. Where do you use it?

Renew IS a very important spell for shadow and disc. No arguments there. I'm just saying; it's doing the same thing as PWS. They both buffer up a heal. In a world where PWS and Renew both healed for the same amount, you could cast both... or you could cast a single PWS blocking roughly twice the healing. Would it make any practical difference? Numbers can be tweaked. Do you really need two spells to do the same thing; or would it suffice with one if the numbers were balanced? That's the question here.

As for the last two; note the header of my post saying "PVE holy centric". I realize some spells are useful in PVP. I don't disagree. But I would also claim that if there are some spells that are utterly useless in PVE - or PVP - then there is something wrong with that spell. Chakra (the attack spell) is one of them. I assume PVPers have a similar beef with some spells not doing anything for them. I merely dabble in PVP occasionally, so I wouldn't really know. Thus my "PVE holy centric" disclaimer.

[Thirteen]

Mind Soothe is the obvious first candidate of a spell to die. The spell could have been awesome had it had a visual indicator on the range. But alas, the spell is a pointless relic from an era where spells were unintuitive and unhelpful. Nowadays it needs to die.

It's already gone in fact :P.

Shackle Undead is virtually useless. Haven't cast the spell since WoTLK I think. Kill it with fire. Or put it into the T1 talent line or something.

Not true. It's very useful in certain PvP situations, and offers some form of utility outside of PvP (eg. Brawl'gar arena, potentially some future raid or dungeon instances), though I do agree that it needs to have a broader target spectrum. Aberrations and demons (also affected by banish) possibly?

Resurrect and Mass Resurrect should also be merged. The mass ress CD is honestly just annoying. Drop it.

There's a point to it though. Mass Resurrection applies a 10 minute debuff, whereas Resurrection/Redemption/Resuscitate/Whatever do not.

Renew and PWS sort of fill the same niche - buffer up a heal. Do we really need both? I mean, from a flavour point of view.
IMO, general priests should only have PWS, but holy should get renew instead of PWS. Talents like Body and Soul would have to be reworked to work on Renew for Holy under a similar cooldown scheme. Disc loses renew, but should get some compensation elsewhere. Shadow loses renew, but can just get a slightly stronger PWS. No sweat. One less button.

I'm conflicted on this. I agree that Renew and PW:S are very similar to each other, but the thing is that there are situations where it's nice to have the other one (eg. I find myself using PW:S as holy when my meta gem Clearcasting procs). They're both also important PvP spells.

Binding Heal and Flash Heal are rather similar in single target output (mostly), and cost the same amount of mana. Why not merge them, so that you always cast Binding Heal?

One spell I have always been in favour of killing is Heal. Sure it's low-cost, but it's not really effective. Being forced to use it means being forced to run at snail pace. It's NOT FUN! "Yay I reached level 100; i'm now the epitome healer able to command the holy light with the snap of my fingers... or not. Let's stick to what I did at level 15 for another 200 itemlevels until I can get to the point where I can use all the cool toys I used at level 90". While Heal is far better now than it was in Cata, it's still not really a necessary addon to my spec. I'd rather have the armor stances affect this - a efficiency stance (inner will) and a throughput stance (inner fire) - than having two spells doing the same thing (single target workhorse healing).

Binding Heal and Flash Heal are too similar, I agree. But I'd rather just have BH reworked instead of scrapping one. Heal shouldn't be killed because, obviously, it's what you'll be casting for single targets. You can't liberally Flash Heal or Greater Heal. Yes, maybe these days, sporting a Heroic Thunderforged Horridon's Last Gasp you can, but when you're just hitting 90 (or on your way to 90), it's what you'll find yourself using in heroic dungeons. And even in raids, I find myself using it often enough, even if just to refresh Renew.

On the Holy Front, Chakra (the stance mechanic) needs to die a violent death involving chainsaws and fire. This will clear up a crapton of buttons. Also, having both chakra stances and armor stances is redundant. "Do I pick serenity + inner will + renew style today, or maybe I should go for serentiy + inner fire + somewhat flash heal heavy, or maybe sanctuary + poh + coh combos... eh, it doesn't matter, now does it? I'll just go with whatever and adapt my spell selection accordingly."

Chakra (the attack spell) is also pretty stupid in PVE. It does less DPS than smite, and it has a cooldown, and every mob in existance is immune to the disorient effect. What's the point? (yeah yeah. PVP only. I know. Just saying it is useless, and bad design!). Sanctuary (the healing spell) is also rather stupid. It has an atrocious mana-per-healing ratio; it's only really ever worth considering casting if you happen to drown in mana (hah! as if!), and it's not really healing for a lot anyway. Kill it and I wouldn't care. Let me have Serenity (the healing spell) all the time, and life would be amazing.

Chakra, I agree, needs a change. But I don't know if I want it removed completely. When I'm in a certain state, I want to feel like "Yeah, I'm in Sanctuary Chakra now. My AoEs are better than everyone else's", and not "I'm in Sanctuary Chakra now. My single target healing is far worse than anyone else's, but at least my AoE can keep up with other healers".

As they are today, Inner Fire and Inner Will isn't really an interesting choice in PVE. It's Inner Fire or bust, unless you really have to move really fast, in which case it's Body & Soul that is the answer.

Why are you even using Body & Soul when Angelic Feather is ten times the spell B&S will ever be. Inner Will also needs a buff. Either increase the speed boost by a huge amount, or make it reduce the cost of all heals. It competes with Inner Fire, but the situations where it does are few and far between.

For PVE players, every single spell in the first tier of talent is totally useless. I have cast Psyfiend twice this expansion. Once to look at it, once as a mistake when I was unbinding the key. Which means I also forget about it when I do stumble into PVP. And do we really need this AND psychic scream?

First tier is garbage in PvE. I'd rather have something like Blessed Resilience back, at least it was useful. Blizzard obviously doesn't want to give us proper crowd control (exhibit A: Only one of our specs has an interrupt, and it's garbage. Exhibit B: We have no CC outside of Psychic Scream), so at least give us a hard CC like Repentance or Polymorph, even if it means turning Shackle Undead into a universal 1 minute stun (essentially Repentance).

Chakra (the attack spell) is also pretty stupid in PVE. It does less DPS than smite, and it has a cooldown, and every mob in existance is immune to the disorient effect. What's the point? (yeah yeah. PVP only. I know. Just saying it is useless, and bad design!). Sanctuary (the healing spell) is also rather stupid. It has an atrocious mana-per-healing ratio; it's only really ever worth considering casting if you happen to drown in mana (hah! as if!), and it's not really healing for a lot anyway. Kill it and I wouldn't care. Let me have Serenity (the healing spell) all the time, and life would be amazing.

Again, agreed. Chastise is the perfect place to give us a CC (albeit disc will still be gimped in that department), or at least make it a real stun! It only lasts 2 seconds anyway. But yeah, it is very useful in PvP, and makes holy great in arenas for setting up chain-control. Sanctuary has a good concept behind it, but it needs its numbers reworked, so the healing:manacost ratio doesn't have twenty zeros past the decimal point.

I also believe my racial Arcane Torrent is bordering on stupidity, and certainly well past redundancy. Every 2 minutes... I can cast a free "Heal" spell. Yay me! Where can I thank the developers for this incredible boon? *pokes the sarcasm meter for not reacting strongly enough*

Finally; not really sure my holypriest needs SW: Death.

Well, racials haven't really got much to do with classes, though I think the silence on Torrent's pretty good. At least it's something. And asking for SW: Death removed is like asking for Smite removed. We have no damage spells anyway, and this one gives us something to cast on the go. Not in raids, but yknow, while questing or whatever.

[Siri]

Mind Soothe is the obvious first candidate of a spell to die. The spell could have been awesome had it had a visual indicator on the range. But alas, the spell is a pointless relic from an era where spells were unintuitive and unhelpful. Nowadays it needs to die.

It already is dead, no need to talk about it as if it was still around. It was very powerful though, despite not having an indicator. That stuff came with experienced use of the spell. For the people who did use it in dungeons you could skip packs of trash, especially while doing old stuff because it made mobs unable to aggro unless you ran right on top of them.

Shackle Undead is virtually useless. Haven't cast the spell since WoTLK I think. Kill it with fire. Or put it into the T1 talent line or something.

Again, it's very useful in PvP. In terms of PvE the last time I used it in raiding was during Cataclysm, at Nef. Removing Shackle is pretty much unacceptable.

Renew and PWS sort of fill the same niche - buffer up a heal. Do we really need both? I mean, from a flavour point of view.

Yes, both are needed because they work entirely differently and they're used for different things. The only thing they really have in common is that they're both instant.

Binding Heal and Flash Heal are rather similar in single target output (mostly), and cost the same amount of mana. Why not merge them, so that you always cast Binding Heal?

I feel like I must misunderstand something here because Flash does significantly more healing to a single target than Binding Heal does. Besides, if you merged both so that you'd always used Binding Heal (which would need to be buffed because the HPM and HPS would be pretty bad if only your target needed healing) you'd get the same problem that you had with Paladins pre-MoP, they healed themselves for way too much while just aiming to heal others.

On the Holy Front, Chakra (the stance mechanic) needs to die a violent death involving chainsaws and fire. This will clear up a crapton of buttons. Also, having both chakra stances and armor stances is redundant. "Do I pick serenity + inner will + renew style today, or maybe I should go for serentiy + inner fire + somewhat flash heal heavy, or maybe sanctuary + poh + coh combos... eh, it doesn't matter, now does it? I'll just go with whatever and adapt my spell selection accordingly."

As they are today, Inner Fire and Inner Will isn't really an interesting choice in PVE. It's Inner Fire or bust, unless you really have to move really fast, in which case it's Body & Soul that is the answer.

This is really the only segment I'll agree with, but not for the same reasons. I don't think Chakra in general worked out very well, I'd just want the Chakra spells available whenever and the rest balanced accordingly. The choice of armor is pretty much in the same boat as the mage armors to me. Remove them, bake in effects into specific specs if necessary.

One spell I have always been in favour of killing is Heal. Sure it's low-cost, but it's not really effective.

Heal is perfectly fine. It does what it was designed to do and it does so well. You may not find it fun to cast but that's really not a reason to remove it.

For PVE players, every single spell in the first tier of talent is totally useless. I have cast Psyfiend twice this expansion. Once to look at it, once as a mistake when I was unbinding the key. Which means I also forget about it when I do stumble into PVP. And do we really need this AND psychic scream?

I think what you meant to say was "For raiding". Void tendrils is very nice for questing (in bad gear, particularly), Mind Control is really situational and Psyfiend is really a PvP spell.

I also believe my racial Arcane Torrent is bordering on stupidity, and certainly well past redundancy. Every 2 minutes... I can cast a free "Heal" spell. Yay me! Where can I thank the developers for this incredible boon? *pokes the sarcasm meter for not reacting strongly enough*

Not really a priest spell but it's still 250mp5 for "free", the silence also sees use.
Heh, I even recall Alliance players bitching about Arcane Torrent being unfair because it was too good on Cho'gall hc progress.

[Danner]

Thirteen:

@Mind Soothe: Doh!

@Shackle Undead: I forgot about the brawler arena. It actually works there, eh? The arena is content I cannot really experience (well, beyond the first few bosses) without going shadow, and I just didn't want to.

@Mass Resurrect: But do we really still need two buttons to raise people? I maintain that the cooldown and debuff is stupid. But if you want to keep it; how about the spell just always raising the target, and everyone around it that isn't in debuff mode - or when suffering cooldown.

@Body & Soul: Oh yes, Angelic Feather is better, no question about it. But Body & Soul is ONE LESS BUTTON! See why I pick it? :P

- - - Updated - - -

Lohe:

@Mind Soothe: Yeah I guess it shows how much an impact that spell did on me, I didn't even remember it was gone.

@Renew/PWS:
Well, I cannot argue that they are mechanically identical. PWS does frontloaded shielding. Renew does continuous healing. Fact remains; they both counter damage happening in the near future. Either by blocking it or mending it. They both have a moderately short duration. PWS is strictly speaking the superior choice; but has a downside of weakened soul, and as non-disc, a small cooldown. PWS also cannot deal with damage that already happened; while Renew can.

But I would argue we don't really need both. If merging buttons is a goal, both spells serve towards the same goal. Buffer healing. How they do it differ. But the usecase is mostly the same. If you had a stronger shield, or more mitigation, would you really need renew? Does it serve a purpose other than being another button to cast that keeps you alive?

Remember, numbers can be tweaked. Think mechanics here. I may very well be convinced that renew is meaningful to cast and should be kept. And it's not my first choice for button merging. But it is certainly an overlap in functionality.

@Binding Heal vs Flash Heal:
Flash Heal scales 131% with spellpower. Binding heal scales 89% with spellpower. No doubt is flash heal stronger. But think beyond numbers here. Do we need a separate button for flash heal when Binding Heal does roughly the same mechanicswise (save person NOW), plus added selfheal?

@Heal:
This is definitively something I am alone in. But I really hate Heal. It was added because paladins needed a third heal in their repertoire. So all the other healers gor one too. With not really much success. For Holy, Heal was an abomination throughout Cata; costing and healing for 1/3rd of GHeal. Why use it when GHeal was exactly as efficient? Unless you really really really cared about spell procs, I mean.

Times have changed. Heal is far more efficient than GHeal these days. But I still hate the spell. It's the epitome of un-fun. Every expansion start us out by being restricted to this one stupid spell only, slowly growing to the point where we can use our full repertoire. And once we do, Heal is suddenly borderline useless. Why not drop the spell completely? The principle of "holy trinity" never worked out for priests anyway. If you want affordable healing; that's where Penance, Rapture+pws, Serenity and Renew, should come in.

@Psyfiend and friends:
Must admit I did not need any T1 talents while levelling. Glad to see you found a use for it. It's a good counterargument

[Siri]

@Renew/PWS:
Well, I cannot argue that they are mechanically identical. PWS does frontloaded shielding. Renew does continuous healing. Fact remains; they both counter damage happening in the near future. Either by blocking it or mending it. They both have a moderately short duration. PWS is strictly speaking the superior choice; but has a downside of weakened soul, and as non-disc, a small cooldown. PWS also cannot deal with damage that already happened; while Renew can.

PW:S is used either as prevention or an emergency save, Renew can do neither. Even as Holy, if someone spikes down and I want to save them I'd sooner cast PW:S than Renew. Renew in terms of mechanics are more suited towards countering and smoothing steady streams of damage whereas PW:S is more suited to counter spikes of damage, Renew can't smooth out a spike but it can heal it back up. I just don't understand how you can think they're anything alike.

I realize you're going to disagree but short of including AoE heals I'm not sure I could come up with two spells that are more different in terms of mechanics and purpose.

@Binding Heal vs Flash Heal:
Flash Heal scales 131% with spellpower. Binding heal scales 89% with spellpower. No doubt is flash heal stronger. But think beyond numbers here. Do we need a separate button for flash heal when Binding Heal does roughly the same mechanicswise (save person NOW), plus added selfheal?

Binding Heal isn't really a "save person NOW" spell though, the hps/hpc it does to one target isn't really high enough for that.
Flash Heal is part of your maximum HPS rotation on a single target, Binding Heal is not.
Binding Heal is part of your maximum HPS rotation when healing aoe damage, Flash Heal is not.
(Since your original post was with a Holy PoV, so is this one)

They fill different purposes.

[The Stormbringer]

I'm a keybind/clicker hybrid, so I don't really have a hard time getting to all my buttons. It may take me a touch longer, but it works.

[TyrantWave]

HW:Sanctuary.

Either make it actually worth casting, or scrap it.
I might do a quick test when I'm home tonight - LFR dogs (For constant stacked people + aoe damage), casting it on cd. See how much healing it actually does...

[l33t]

The only Priest ability I don't use is Shackle Undead, because I don't play arenas. I think it should be added some components to it, to let control beasts or elementals, something like that, so it could be useful in pve.
Mind Vision is kinda useful on RBGs, and I don't want this particular ability to be deleted.
Binding heal is very useful, please put your greedy nerfing hands out of that ability. I'd better have Flash heal to be removed than this one.
Chakras should go, this is for sure. Their effects should be baseline for Holy priest heals, because it is absurd that Holy has to be limited in healing where no one other healer is.
Inner will is another almost never usable spell. It should be baseline, or maybe it should be removed at all, I don't know. It has almost none sence at all currently (pve-vise, maybe on arenas people use it to run faster, I don't know. On RBG I never use it.)
PW:S and PoM are very useful in all specs in every aspect of the game.
Renew... well, I don't know about Renew. I'm raiding mostly in 10 man (holy), and pve-wise I almost never use it, since there is almost no needs in HoTs now, because absorbs fit niche of hots now. PvP-wise... I don't know about arenas, but on RBG (shadow) I also use it rarely, because it heals for shit. Dunno, maybe it is time for hots alltogether to go away?

[Thirteen]

HW:Sanctuary.

Either make it actually worth casting, or scrap it.
I might do a quick test when I'm home tonight - LFR dogs (For constant stacked people + aoe damage), casting it on cd. See how much healing it actually does...

Don't bother using it for now. The t16 4-piece will make it fantastic though. The only worthwhile use of Sanctuary at the moment is when you have about .5 seconds left of your meta's Clearcasting and not much else to cast.

Inner will is another almost never usable spell. It should be baseline, or maybe it should be removed at all, I don't know. It has almost none sence at all currently (pve-vise, maybe on arenas people use it to run faster, I don't know. On RBG I never use it.)

Why are so few priests finding Inner Will useful? There are times when you just want to keep people topped off with Renew, and it does help a lot, especially if you haven't had luck with regeneration trinkets (personally, I've been dragging Spirits of the Sun with me for what seems like forever; curse you Horridon). It's not a miracle worker, just means that you can cast 11 Renews for the price of 10. But I will agree that its uses are far more limited than Inner Fire's universally beneficial +10% spell power and +6% spell resistance with Inner Sanctum. Not to mention the fact that it interacts poorly with Pandaren's Step, meaning you either have to enchant your boots with haste - at the cost of movement speed when not using Inner Will - or use Pandaren's Step, making Inner Will just a 10% mana discount on Circle, Prayer of Mending and Renew, which is largely overwhelming in most scenarios. Personally, I'd like to see something done with it. It's obviously meant to interact largely with Renew and PW: Shield, so why not just have it boost the spellpower coefficient of instant spells? Not only will it make it much more viable for both Holy and Discipline, but Shadow will also gain an enormous benefit on multidotting encounters (and let's face it, they need it).

[l33t]

Why are so few priests finding Inner Will useful? There are times when you just want to keep people topped off with Renew, and it does help a lot, especially if you haven't had luck with regeneration trinkets (personally, I've been dragging Spirits of the Sun with me for what seems like forever; curse you Horridon). It's not a miracle worker, just means that you can cast 11 Renews for the price of 10. But I will agree that its uses are far more limited than Inner Fire's universally beneficial +10% spell power and +6% spell resistance with Inner Sanctum. Not to mention the fact that it interacts poorly with Pandaren's Step, meaning you either have to enchant your boots with haste - at the cost of movement speed when not using Inner Will - or use Pandaren's Step, making Inner Will just a 10% mana discount on Circle, Prayer of Mending and Renew, which is largely overwhelming in most scenarios. Personally, I'd like to see something done with it. It's obviously meant to interact largely with Renew and PW: Shield, so why not just have it boost the spellpower coefficient of instant spells? Not only will it make it much more viable for both Holy and Discipline, but Shadow will also gain an enormous benefit on multidotting encounters (and let's face it, they need it).

Well, the problem is that maybe too small percent of priests can actually use Renew as a healing mechanic? Since I, for example, don't find it possible, because its healing is way too weak, no actual rotational mechanics like Riptide is based around using renew, and it anyway will go overheal due to large amount of absorbs and all other nonhealer raidheals. In other way speaking, it is a wasted mana. I'm raiding in 10 man though, maybe in 25 there are more uses to it. I also don't like this particular healing style, being a bad resto druid parody and all that.

[Crudelitas]

I wouldn't say no to losing the 90 talents (shadow)

[Thirteen]

Why does using HoT spells have to make you a bad druid parody? Fact is that holy priests currently have strong heal over time effects - between Renew, Lightwell, Sanctuary (which will be very powerful with the new 4-piece) and Echo of Light, and I find that refusing to use, say, Renew or Lightwell is simply a waste. The glyphed renew is pretty damn strong, especially if you're reaching the haste breakpoint, and Serenity lets you keep a single cast going for an entire encounter.

[Yvaelle]

I don't think you need to macro Kafa Press, Mana Potions, or Ra'sha's Sacrificial Dagger, at least I don't. I haven't used a mana potion all expansion - I always have a ton of int pots so my Kafa Press probably has two dozen clicks this expansion as well, and I don't use Ra'sha's very often - though I probably should more often I guess.


I want to see them remove all Shadow's holy/disc spells, and Mind Spike - and make our buffs into auras/stances (Inner Fire, Fortitude, etc). I'd rather our utility be more shadowy - rather than the "utility" of having access to crappy Renew / ProM.

With that said, I am deeply saddened by the prospect of losing ProM: how will Shadow play Priest-Catch?!

They should make a minor glyph called Glyph of False Prayers - lets Shadow cast a visual ProM solely for the sake of Priest-Catch