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  1. #41
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    I understand the BiS list currently has no trinkets -- but if the trinekt with 8% spirit ends up being BiS (which I suspect it will end up being) I think your list could undergo a drastic change since this gives us 8% additional hit rating from spirit. Also possibly making spirit gear worth more than hit gear.

    Thus, would you not want to add in trinkets to either verify/deny whether this trinket is BiS before continuing with small tweaks on the BiS list?
    Trinket stats and procs haven't been added to WrathCalcs yet--when they are, you can be guaranteed I'll do an overhaul of the list with trinket combos and gear interaction.

    It's not of my own volition that trinkets aren't included. I'm just looking for a good discussion on other aspects (talents/off-piece/stats) while Tec has a go at modelling the trinket procs.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-08-19 at 01:42 AM.

  2. #42
    Ok, haha. You could always have fun assuming an 8% increase to spirit and make another list that 'assumes' the trinket will be included if you are bored.

  3. #43
    Hi Slippy,

    Can you do this too for the normal gear?
    Or it's just the same?

  4. #44
    Field Marshal
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    Thanks Skippykins, great work as usual. I can't wait to see how Trinkets look for us when WrathCalcs is updated.

    Do we know if the Legendary Cape is still being buffed by Solar Eclipse and Boomkin Form (Nature increases)? This is something I heard from people on PTR a week or two ago.

  5. #45
    The Patient
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    No longer 8% on the AMP trinkets, they've been toned down to 6% already. So I doubt they'll become BiS for anyone

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by narzhul View Post
    No longer 8% on the AMP trinkets, they've been toned down to 6% already. So I doubt they'll become BiS for anyone
    Unless I missed a change to the PTR, where do you see the 6%? The normal version is showing 7% right now, and the heroic 8% still.

    You might be confused by seeing 6% in a raid test environment where its item level and percentage was scaled to 6%?

  7. #47
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henesys View Post
    Unless I missed a change to the PTR, where do you see the 6%? The normal version is showing 7% right now, and the heroic 8% still.

    You might be confused by seeing 6% in a raid test environment where its item level and percentage was scaled to 6%?
    Apologozies, was referring to the flex versions of these

  8. #48
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunnar View Post
    Thanks Skippykins, great work as usual. I can't wait to see how Trinkets look for us when WrathCalcs is updated.

    Do we know if the Legendary Cape is still being buffed by Solar Eclipse and Boomkin Form (Nature increases)? This is something I heard from people on PTR a week or two ago.
    Yes Solar eclipse still increases the damage of the cloak.

  9. #49
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoshi View Post
    Hi Slippy,

    Can you do this too for the normal gear?
    Or it's just the same?
    I'll make a normal list again, but not until the tier is already underway. I'd like to get this list mostly finalised before I worry about maintaining a separate gear set.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    I'll make a normal list again, but not until the tier is already underway. I'd like to get this list mostly finalised before I worry about maintaining a separate gear set.
    There is no point in a Normal BiS if there is no HC-only boss and your guild isn't doing only Normals, which is unlikely as even casual guilds will probably get 1-2 HC bosses down. In ToT, Ra-den loot had a big effect on loot availability.

  11. #51
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    There is no point in a Normal BiS if there is no HC-only boss and your guild isn't doing only Normals, which is unlikely as even casual guilds will probably get 1-2 HC bosses down. In ToT, Ra-den loot had a big effect on loot availability.
    True enough, and if breakpoints are easily attained it shouldn't change the gear much. I can have a go at compiling one, but if the gear ends up being the same with just reforge/gemming differences, I wont post an official list.

  12. #52
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Just curious, did you try using 2pc plus 3 Warforged pieces? Or did you only try combinations with 4pc assuming it would be best to use it?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Just curious, did you try using 2pc plus 3 Warforged pieces? Or did you only try combinations with 4pc assuming it would be best to use it?
    We're essentially balanced around having our 4pc set so it would be silly not to use it.

  14. #54
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    My Wrathcalcs has been broken for some odd reason with importing armory the past few days, but how much of a DPS increase is 2p and 4p T16 over T15? if you take it from the T15 bis list if anyone has a number or a % for it

  15. #55
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabb View Post
    My Wrathcalcs has been broken for some odd reason with importing armory the past few days, but how much of a DPS increase is 2p and 4p T16 over T15? if you take it from the T15 bis list if anyone has a number or a % for it
    T16 2-piece: ~3.5%
    4-piece: ~1.7%

    (below is in T15 gear...)
    T15 2-piece: ~2.9%
    4-piece: ~3.1%

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Just curious, did you try using 2pc plus 3 Warforged pieces? Or did you only try combinations with 4pc assuming it would be best to use it?
    I assumed 4-piece would be best, but considering it's only worth around 1.7% DPS, I'll have a look at Warforged alternatives and 2-piece.

  16. #56
    Even if it isn't best on paper, I think you should retain it on the BiS list for practicality reasons. More SS procs after the multidot nerf will be more valuable than their on-paper contribution. I don't think there are many single target encounters coming up in this tier?

    Also, trinkets updated. I couldn't see any good data on Bindings & Frenzied Crystals' respective uptimes, so they're just proctime/ICD for now (i.e. their DPS will come down a little once we get better data or Hamlet does something on it).

    Added your latest profile (check if I've missed something, as secondary stat numbers look different). Remember when using the Amp trinket we'll have more room to drop Haste for that last FoN cast (actual Haste value after amp is on the Haste page) and you should be able to lose a few of those Crafty gems as you have ~302 more hit you can drop.

    Link to new version:

    http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t114017-...0/#post2326667

  17. #57
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    Even if it isn't best on paper, I think you should retain it on the BiS list for practicality reasons. More SS procs after the multidot nerf will be more valuable than their on-paper contribution. I don't think there are many single target encounters coming up in this tier?

    Also, trinkets updated. I couldn't see any good data on Bindings & Frenzied Crystals' respective uptimes, so they're just proctime/ICD for now (i.e. their DPS will come down a little once we get better data or Hamlet does something on it).

    Added your latest profile (check if I've missed something, as secondary stat numbers look different). Remember when using the Amp trinket we'll have more room to drop Haste for that last FoN cast (actual Haste value after amp is on the Haste page) and you should be able to lose a few of those Crafty gems as you have ~302 more hit you can drop.

    Link to new version:

    http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t114017-...0/#post2326667
    Thanks Tec! I'll probably go over the list later tonight and hopefully go over the other suggestions as well.

  18. #58
    Cloak automatically goes to 608 when you make it legendary even if the base version isnt upgraded. least on the ptr it does.

  19. #59
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Alright, with Tec's addition of the trinkets to WrathCalcs I've gone and done another trinket analysis, much like last tiers. Since this is still during the PTR the list will probably change, but I'll update it when changes occur.

    Similar to the last trinket analysis I did, this one also features trinket combinations instead of sole trinkets. This is to ensure trinket interactions are properly accounted for, as well as gear and stat disruptions. Please note that this list is subject to change. A caveat is that I haven't included the cleave trinket in this list, as it's really a separate entity and only good for stacked targets. I make a point on this trinket later.

    Additionally, all trinkets are assumed to be double upgraded, and all T15 trinkets are Heroic Thunderforged and upgraded.

    ** note: this trinket list has been updated on 11/9/2013 (patch day)

    Trinket Combinations: Most DPS to least
    1. Kardris' + Purified (Heroic WF)
    2. Blood + Purified (Heroic WF)
    3. Blood + Kardris' (Heroic WF)
    4. Kardris' + Purified (Heroic)
    5. Blood + Kardris' (Heroic)
    6. Blood + Purified (Heroic)
    7. Kardris' + Purified (Normal WF)
    8. Blood + Kardris' (Normal WF)
    9. Blood + Purified (Normal WF)
    10. Kardris' + Purified (Normal)
    11. Blood + Kardris' (Normal)
    12. Blood + Purified (Normal)
    13. Kardris' + UVLS (Flex)
    14. Purified + UVLS (Flex)
    15. Kardris' + Purified (Flex)
    16. Kardris' + Cha-Ye's (Flex)
    17. Purified + Cha-Ye's (Flex)
    18. Cha-Ye's + UVLS (Heroic TF)
    19. Blood + UVLS (Flex)
    20. Blood + Kardris' (Flex)
    21. Blood + Purified (Flex)
    22. Blood + Cha-Ye's (Flex)
    23. Breath + UVLS (Heroic TF)
    24. Kardris' + Breath (Flex)
    25. Purified + Breath (Flex)
    26. Wushoolay's + UVLS (Heroic TF)
    27. Kardris' + Wushoolay's (Flex)
    28. Purified + Wushoolay's (Flex)
    29. Kardris' + Purified (LFR)
    30. Cha-Ye's + Breath (Heroic TF)
    31. Wushoolay's + Cha-Ye's (Heroic TF)
    32. Blood + Breath (Flex)
    33. Blood + Kardris' (LFR)
    34. Blood + Purified (LFR)
    35. Blood + Wushoolay's (Flex)
    36. Wushoolay's + Breath (Heroic TF)
    37. Kardris' + Yu'lon's (Flex)
    38. Purified + Yu'lon's (Flex)
    39. Blood + Yu'lon's (Flex)

    So, what can we surmise from this list? Well, there are quite a few things prevalent from this analysis.

    • Kardris' Toxic Totem and Purified Bindings of Immerseus are clearly the best trinkets in the instance (for single-target).
    • Kardris' and Purified interchange a lot through the list - when together they provide the absolute best benefit, but when separated there's no clear winner. Therefore, all we can surmise from this is that Kardris' and Purified are relatively equal in DPS gain, but have interactions with other trinkets.
    • The cleave trinket is difficult to place because WrathCalcs is still working on its multi-target functionality. From the limited functionality, however, it's possible to see that the Frenzied Crystal of Rage becomes potent at around an additional 2 targets. This means two things: you can replace either of the two BiS trinkets for it, and also that the fight must on average have 3 targets standing near each other. This could mean that 50% of the time there's 5 adds to cleave and the other 50% only a single target, or anything like that. The targets must be stacked though. More testing needs to be done, but this sounds reasonable for a cleave trinket.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    In general:

    Kardris' = Purified > Blood

    Please let me know if you see any errors, I've undoubtedly made a few.

    For anyone interested in the numbers - http://i.imgur.com/9inPoJ6.png
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-09-11 at 02:32 AM.

  20. #60
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Just as something to wonder it doesn't appear that we will be able to upgrade the ilvl of the Hellscream Weapons and Offhand and since that, appears, to be the case won't the current MH and OH drop down since we can get about 6 ilvls a piece from using other options?
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    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

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