[Balance] T16H BiS List

[Phoon]

Whats our mastery per % ? can't find it anywhere.

[Droodpile]

Kardris' Scepter

Could we not just use this weapon... to replace the non-upgradeable boa.

[Stommped]

We're essentially balanced around having our 4pc set so it would be silly not to use it.

Well the 4pc is marginal DPS gain on single target so I'm not sure why you think we're "balanced" around it. Well have to see how the 8% interacts with reduced chance with multiple targets, but if you could get more of a 2% increase from 12 extra item levels that 2 Warforged pieces would give you, it would be silly TO use the 4pc bonus. Probably not likely, but you never know with scaling.

[Juvencus]

http://wowpedia.org/Combat_rating_system says 600 rating per 1 point of (old ) mastery which still exists underneath, but the point -> % differs by spec, which I can't find

[huth]

Just divide your base mastery by 8. Every class still gets 8 points of mastery baseline.

[boomkinhero]

Well the 4pc is marginal DPS gain on single target so I'm not sure why you think we're "balanced" around it. Well have to see how the 8% interacts with reduced chance with multiple targets, but if you could get more of a 2% increase from 12 extra item levels that 2 Warforged pieces would give you, it would be silly TO use the 4pc bonus. Probably not likely, but you never know with scaling.

It's about a 10% difference in proc rate at 1 and 2 targets, ~8% at 3, ~6.5% at 4, and ~5.5% at 5 targets.. before crit.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-7s...lUUTlSaUU/edit
refer to combined chance that is the statistical chance to get a proc per tick cycle - multiply by crit chance to get in-practice numbers. This also means the differences quoted above are before crit chance i.e. if you have 30% crit chance then the difference for 1 and 2 targets will be 3% instead of 10% (.10 * .30).

Also, if your dot's are ticking at 0.86 ticks / second (individually) with 45% crit chance on 3 targets with T16 4p, the correct math would be (0.874732 * 0.45 * .86) = .3385 procs per second on average.

[Slippykins]

Kardris' Scepter

Could we not just use this weapon... to replace the non-upgradeable boa.

Already said twice now I'll be looking over the non-Hellscream's weapons in comparison to non-upgraded Hellscream's. I just happened to go to bed over the last 8 hours haha.

[Deleted]

Kardris' Scepter

Could we not just use this weapon... to replace the non-upgradeable boa.

Actually that would be the worst of the 3 1h weapons. The other 2 have more secondary stats.

[Deleted]

I am curious, are you finding in your evaluation that Mastery > Crit?

Because even if they come out at the same value, surely crit is the better choice for varied situations. I have nothing against stacking some mastery in our gear, but it seems from your list that the value of crit must have dropped alot? Running with crit and mastery equal, i dunno seems logical on pen and paper for smooth rotation fights, but i cant see how it is better when our rotation get obstructed by multi targets, burst phases, etc. And every second we spend outside of eclipse mastery becomes useless.

I need to run my own wrathcalcs later this week, but something just doesnt seem right in practicality with the evaluation that mastery and crit should be equal on gear.

Also has the value of int dropped in your calcs? Since i would contend some gemming you have done, and maybe look to maximise the int we can take overall on the gear.

Edit: Also is your hit 5145 with the 8% amplification from Purified Bindings of Immerseus or is your hit 5557? Meaning we can change some of the gems your using.
If it is could you state the actual hit number you are at and that the 8% brings it to x Value that would be better thanks

Also once again thanks to everyone and mainly slippy who does this, really helpful.

[Slippykins]

I am curious, are you finding in your evaluation that Mastery > Crit?

Because even if they come out at the same value, surely crit is the better choice for varied situations. I have nothing against stacking some mastery in our gear, but it seems from your list that the value of crit must have dropped alot? Running with crit and mastery equal, i dunno seems logical on pen and paper for smooth rotation fights, but i cant see how it is better when our rotation get obstructed by multi targets, burst phases, etc. And every second we spend outside of eclipse mastery becomes useless.

I need to run my own wrathcalcs later this week, but something just doesnt seem right in practicality with the evaluation that mastery and crit should be equal on gear.

Also has the value of int dropped in your calcs? Since i would contend some gemming you have done, and maybe look to maximise the int we can take overall on the gear.

Edit: Also is your hit 5145 with the 8% amplification from Purified Bindings of Immerseus or is your hit 5557? Meaning we can change some of the gems your using.
If it is could you state the actual hit number you are at and that the 8% brings it to x Value that would be better thanks

Also once again thanks to everyone and mainly slippy who does this, really helpful.

I'm not entirely sold by the mastery and crit equalling thing myself. I've been thinking going all-out on crit, while it does convey less paper DPS, will help to reduce RNG and increase movement DPS. Because of the sqrt(x)/x modifier for SS procs I'm not sure if crit will be superior for multi-targets, but I think that's a better question for SimCraft later on

Int didn't drop, it's just secondary stats increased disproportionately. I'm getting around 7.3 DPS per int compared to around 4.2-4.5 DPS per crit/mastery. So secondary gemming should net the most DPS.

The 5145 hit includes the amplification bonus. If you look at the screenshot I provided for the trinket comparison, in the top-right corner I have haste, mastery and hit modified by the amplification. I can add the non-amplified haste/mastery/hit in brackets next to the total stat if you'd like.

[dark666105]

Weren't they talking about letting tier be warforged? did nothing ever come of that?

[boomkinhero]

They didnt want to because then (for druids) there would be 5 * 4 * 2 items in the vendor just for tier, as opposed to 5 * 4.. too much clutter. They need a different form of managing tier items (i.e. making them a usable item instead of a token, similar to the timeless isle epics) before making tier warforged etc.

[dark666105]

4*5*5
4 specs
5 pieces
5 levels of gear with LFR-N-NWF-H-HWF

[boomkinhero]

Yea mah bad lol ^ that tired
Too much man

[Slippykins]

4*5*5
4 specs
5 pieces
5 levels of gear with LFR-N-NWF-H-HWF

Don't forget flex!

[dark666105]

wasnt aware flex had its own level of tier. can flex stuff be warforged?

[Slippykins]

wasnt aware flex had its own level of tier. can flex stuff be warforged?

Don't think so, but flex does have its own tier (for example: http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/104675-pu...s-of-immerseus).

Also, updated the OP and switched the non-upgradeable Hellscream's mace for Horned Mace of the Old Ones. My reasoning is that the hit and crit don't get amplified on Rik'kal's Bloody Scalpel, and Kardris' Scepter has less secondary stats than the other options. It also gets me the most DPS in WrathCalcs.

Furthermore, I've changed the reforges slightly to maximise crit, even though on paper it shows a couple hundred less DPS. In the scheme of things, the paper DPS loss equates to less than 1%, ie. not even noticeable, and if we follow previous tier logic the additional crit should improve our multi-target and reduce RNG. I'll still need to verify with SimCraft when it's updated later.

[boomkinhero]

I agree with that mentality on still stacking crit -- It's still very nice to know though, so we don't tend to shy away from mastery upgrades on our track to BiS. It might be considered the worst stat, but there is no issue what-so-ever in having it. Gearing up, gemming, reforge, etc is just going to be purely about reaching breakpoints and mastery is there without a breakpoint to fall back to.

[Slippykins]

I agree with that mentality on still stacking crit -- It's still very nice to know though, so we don't tend to shy away from mastery upgrades on our track to BiS. It might be considered the worst stat, but there is no issue what-so-ever in having it. Gearing up, gemming, reforge, etc is just going to be purely about reaching breakpoints and mastery is there without a breakpoint to fall back to.

Yeah mastery has definitely had a negative skew these past few tiers (or even expansions), and it's unfortunate because a lot of boomkins now have this idea that it'll never be a good stat. It's going to be at least competitive in a single-target scenario, but it's uncertain whether or not more targets will convey more relative strength to crit. We'll just have to see how accurate we can make SimCraft, and if it correlates well to in-game observations.

[dark666105]

a long tier list in the vendor would be completely manageable with the simple addition of a filter. Maybe a class filter and/or a difficulty filter.