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  1. #1
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    [Balance] T16H BiS List

    This is the current BiS list for boomkins in T16H gear. Numbers and gearset have been evaluated using WrathCalcs (http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t114017-balance_wrathcalcs/), and other spreadsheets/simulations may vary. This BiS list was last updated on 21/09/13.

    Oh look pretty colours (trinket comparison): http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post22152247

    Item comparison (updated 23/09/13!): http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22223448

    Name Gem Gem Enchant Reforge
    Head Darkfang Mask Sinister Primal Diamond Smooth Sun's Radiance --- Mastery -> Haste
    Neck Necklace of Fading Light --- --- --- Spirit -> Crit
    Shoulders Shoulderwraps of the Shattered Vale Crafty Vermilion Onyx Crafty Vermilion Onyx Greater Crane Wing Inscription ---
    Back Xing-Ho, Breath of Yu'lon Crafty Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Cloak - Superior Intellect ---
    Chest Vestment of the Shattered Vale Crafty Vermilion Onyx Crafty Vermilion Onyx x2 Enchant Chest - Glorious Stats Haste -> Crit
    Bracers Bracers of Purified Spirit --- --- Enchant Bracer - Super Intellect Spirit -> Mastery
    Gloves Gloves of the Shattered Vale Potent Vermilion Onyx Potent Vermilion Onyx Enchant Gloves - Greater Haste Haste -> Mastery
    Belt Seal of Karmic Return Potent Vermilion Onyx Smooth Sun's Radiance Smooth Sun's Radiance Spirit -> Crit
    Pants Leggings of the Shattered Vale Smooth Sun's Radiance Smooth Sun's Radiance Greater Cerulean Spellthread Mastery -> Haste
    Boots Boots of Broken Reliance Smooth Sun's Radiance --- Enchant Boots - Pandaren's Step Spirit -> Mastery
    Ring Laser-Slice Signet Smooth Sun's Radiance --- --- Spirit -> Crit
    Ring Signet of the Dinomancers Potent Vermilion Onyx --- --- Mastery -> Crit
    Trinket Purified Bindings of Immerseus --- --- --- ---
    Trinket Kardris' Toxic Totem --- --- --- ---
    Main-Hand Horned Mace of the Old Ones Potent Vermilion Onyx --- Enchant Weapon - Jade Spirit Spirit -> Crit
    Off-Hand Juggernaut's Power Core Smooth Sun's Radiance --- Enchant Off-Hand - Major Intellect Haste -> Mastery

    OVERALL STATS: 26880 Int, 42195 Spell Power, 10290 (9440) Haste, 17318 Crit, 8569 (7861) Mastery, 5071 (4717) Hit

    DPS: 380194.45

    CAPS: 29 under hit cap, 1 over haste cap

    Just a few tid-bits:

    • 2x crit and 2x mastery beats int, so gemming is still toward secondary stats. Crit is still our best stat for this tier.
    • This BiS list is evaluated with 2/2 upgrades in mind.
    • When comparing items, please use Engineering/Tailoring for comparative purposes. Also set your race to Worgen and talents to Inc/DoC.
    • Off-piece comparison has been sort-of done, and I found having the Hat as the off-piece worked out best in terms of reducing spirit and maximal DPS.

    Again, if anyone would like to contribute to this list, please post constructively and back up your post with maths! Idly arguing a point without proving yourself wont get you anywhere. Remember to use WrathCalcs and upgrade your gear.

    --------------------------------------

    Anyway, feel free to comment on this as well. I'm always up for testing out anything new you guys come up with!

    Also, I must have a few transcription errors somewhere here - feel free to point them out, so others don't get confused.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-09-29 at 07:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Great work as per usual, I was curious about your formula for the equilibrium point which occurs around crit = mastery + 7.5k. I'm guessing that this only applies once we have obtained the tier 16-4p which would lower the value of crit somewhat.

  3. #3
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigp100 View Post
    Great work as per usual, I was curious about your formula for the equilibrium point which occurs around crit = mastery + 7.5k. I'm guessing that this only applies once we have obtained the tier 16-4p which would lower the value of crit somewhat.
    Yeah 4-piece was included in this version of WrathCalcs. I'm assuming the equilibrium point occurs because as one stat gets higher, the other stats comparatively increase (we can see this at any gear level). The crit = mastery + 7.5k is just something I tried to deduce from adding and subtracting crit/mastery manually. The equilibrium is almost certainly not linear, but it should be a good enough approximation for the limited amount of stat variance this tier.

    Of course, it could just be an error in WrathCalcs since it was only just updated today, so I wont be fussed if it disappears with a few revisions. Just going with what I've seen so far.

  4. #4
    Wouldn't http://www.wowhead.com/item=65357 be more appropriate for a trinket?

    In all seriousness, I do look forward to having to think about mastery, and I hope trinkets are interesting in the end. It won't be fun if everyone and their kids want the amp trinket. Oh and of course, I look forward to when the first sets of cloaks drop.

  5. #5
    Wouldn't Hellscream's Tome of Destruction be a better OH (2 ilvls higher)?

    EDIT: nvm noticed the lack of socket. derp. But surely an OH with a better stat balance would be better? (more overall secondary stats)
    Last edited by Gebuz; 2013-08-17 at 04:25 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    Wouldn't Hellscream's Tome of Destruction be a better OH (2 ilvls higher)?

    EDIT: nvm noticed the lack of socket. derp.
    I started with the Tome assuming the extra ilvls would boost it up, but swapping in the Cricket Cage was ~400 DPS increase. Small, but something. Gear is pretty close this tier.

    Edit: I'll have another look at the OH tomorrow when I wake up.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-08-17 at 05:05 PM.

  7. #7
    Really likes thoose trinkets !
    Last edited by Cyteriz; 2013-08-17 at 07:26 PM.

  8. #8
    This list will change really drastically due to the fact no trinkets are included, I'd assume the crit damage and garrosh trinket are best unless the multstrike ones get buffed thus making most items possibly change more to crit mastery items instead of haste items.

    Awesome work as usual slippy.

  9. #9
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleuria View Post
    This list will change really drastically due to the fact no trinkets are included, I'd assume the crit damage and garrosh trinket are best unless the multstrike ones get buffed thus making most items possibly change more to crit mastery items instead of haste items.

    Awesome work as usual slippy.
    The Amplification trinket will really throw a spanner in the works... not looking forward to comparing it with the others.

    Once trinkets are in the list should be a bit more permanent, but this is at least a start. If anyone sees better optimisation or a transcription error, let me know like usual!

  10. #10
    im getting better results with http://i.imgur.com/04yLW6d.jpg , in wrathcalcs and ofc without the trinkets.
    295158,77dps 10524 haste 17756 crit 4452 mastery 5275 hit red: int + crit yellow: crit blue: spirit + crit.
    Normaly i would go for 9534 haste and 4723hit (the caps with amp trinket), but had to go for more without the trinket ofc.
    Last edited by Dumdidum; 2013-08-17 at 05:15 PM.

  11. #11
    Regarding set bonuses, 2t16 looks to be a bit of a monster at the moment. With Slippy's profile, it's showing as 9.5k DPS, compared to 8.5k for the T15 4 piece. 4t16 looks less exciting at 4.7k, though I'd imagine real world it'll be a bit more useful when multidotting.

    Slippy: I'm hoping to get the trinkets sorted this weekend.

    Does anyone know if they've nerfed using dual amp trinkets yet (i.e. DPS + healer versions)?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    Regarding set bonuses, 2t16 looks to be a bit of a monster at the moment. With Slippy's profile, it's showing as 9.5k DPS, compared to 8.5k for the T15 4 piece. 4t16 looks less exciting at 4.7k, though I'd imagine real world it'll be a bit more useful when multidotting.

    Slippy: I'm hoping to get the trinkets sorted this weekend.

    Does anyone know if they've nerfed using dual amp trinkets yet (i.e. DPS + healer versions)?
    They did make the proc parts spec-specific, but I searched wowhead comments and I can't find anything about the passive amp effect

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumdidum View Post
    im getting better results with X, in wrathcalcs and ofc without the trinkets.
    295158,77dps 10524 haste 17756 crit 4452 mastery 5275 hit red: int + crit yellow: crit blue: spirit + crit.
    Normaly i would go for 9534 haste and 4723hit (the caps with amp trinket), but had to go for more without the trinket ofc.
    First off all, I don't really get where and what you reforge. Could you please tell me? Secondly and more importantly: your list looks to me like it isn't with 2/2 Upgrades and you didn't use Tailoring as profession I assume, because your cloak has too much INT on it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tecton View Post
    Regarding set bonuses, 2t16 looks to be a bit of a monster at the moment. With Slippy's profile, it's showing as 9.5k DPS, compared to 8.5k for the T15 4 piece. 4t16 looks less exciting at 4.7k, though I'd imagine real world it'll be a bit more useful when multidotting.

    Slippy: I'm hoping to get the trinkets sorted this weekend.

    Does anyone know if they've nerfed using dual amp trinkets yet (i.e. DPS + healer versions)?
    They added "only works in healer specialization" on it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearowlkin View Post
    First off all, I don't really get where and what you reforge. Could you please tell me? Secondly and more importantly: your list looks to me like it isn't with 2/2 Upgrades and you didn't use Tailoring as profession I assume, because your cloak has too much INT on it.
    The link is only a list of items i made when the items where final, to see the overall stats. I used the same items in wrathcalcs with 2/2 upgrade and reforged to hit and haste cap and i used tailoring profession

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire
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    Did you calculate the DPS with T15 trinkets or is it completely without trinkets?

  17. #17
    First of all, this is a preliminary list guys. That's because, correct me if I'm wrong, there's potentially one more PTR build to be released prior to 5.4. Also it will really suck if Breath keeps it's current proc chance with half the duration... makes 0 sense. Another problem is that I can't get any of the stacking int trinkets to 10 reliably before the proc expires.

    Anyway, trinkets not final b/c they are constantly changing, but it's pretty safe to say Purified Bindings of Immersius will be one of them and likely multistrike to be the other, but nothing can be 100% determined atm so please understand why there's placeholders and that the list isn't final.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearowlkin View Post
    First off all, I don't really get where and what you reforge. Could you please tell me? Secondly and more importantly: your list looks to me like it isn't with 2/2 Upgrades and you didn't use Tailoring as profession I assume, because your cloak has too much INT on it.
    It's clearly stated that the results were with 2/2 upgrades and tailoring + engineering as professions. It's not possible to link it like that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Also set your talents to FoN/HotW.
    I... I... I'm done...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Liax View Post
    They added "only works in healer specialization" on it.
    Does that apply to the multiplier portion, though?

  20. #20
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumdidum View Post
    im getting better results with http://i.imgur.com/04yLW6d.jpg , in wrathcalcs and ofc without the trinkets.
    295158,77dps 10524 haste 17756 crit 4452 mastery 5275 hit red: int + crit yellow: crit blue: spirit + crit.
    Normaly i would go for 9534 haste and 4723hit (the caps with amp trinket), but had to go for more without the trinket ofc.
    Odd! For some reason I can't seem to recreate your results. I've changed the gear to your list and reforged/gemmed appropriately, but I'm sitting at 27280 int and only 290k DPS. Would you be able to send me your WrathCalcs in a PM? That way I can compare the two sheets side-by-side.

    Edit: I also manually changed my stats to yours, then proceeded to hit the haste/hit caps, but that only showed 274178 DPS. The int disparity between your total stats and my sheet is dragging it down somewhat, but for some reason you also have less secondaries than my set. Whenever you get a chance, upload your WrathCalcs to Google Drive and send it to me if ya can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybb View Post
    I... I... I'm done...
    Is there a problem with using FoN/HotW for comparative purposes? Not sure why you're dissenting haha.

    Edit: typically I'll choose the talents most represented for a tier - T14 was Incarnation, T15 was Incarnation for the first half then FoN, but I don't think FoN was used as much as expected when 5.3 dropped. I just simply haven't changed FoN out yet, if it is indeed to be replaced by Incarnation again (or even SotF). Same thing with HotW, though I do believe DoC is still a DPS loss to use appropriately, and NV is still a worse DPS choice unless your fight is something like a minute long (ie. doesn't matter at that point).

    Also, since there's been no hard-set theorycrafting numbers on all the talents this coming tier, there's no bounds for me to change anything until said numbers are produced. I can't predict Talent X will beat Talent Y if I have no examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    First of all, this is a preliminary list guys. That's because, correct me if I'm wrong, there's potentially one more PTR build to be released prior to 5.4. Also it will really suck if Breath keeps it's current proc chance with half the duration... makes 0 sense. Another problem is that I can't get any of the stacking int trinkets to 10 reliably before the proc expires.

    Anyway, trinkets not final b/c they are constantly changing, but it's pretty safe to say Purified Bindings of Immersius will be one of them and likely multistrike to be the other, but nothing can be 100% determined atm so please understand why there's placeholders and that the list isn't final.



    It's clearly stated that the results were with 2/2 upgrades and tailoring + engineering as professions. It's not possible to link it like that.
    And this is pretty much why the list is very temperamental right now. It'll be more stable with the next PTR version, but even more so when the patch is released. This is just a very early look at the gear, I very much doubt it'll stay this way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    Wouldn't Hellscream's Tome of Destruction be a better OH (2 ilvls higher)?

    EDIT: nvm noticed the lack of socket. derp. But surely an OH with a better stat balance would be better? (more overall secondary stats)
    Alright so I tried it again and got the same results. I made a stat comparison by hand to show why:

    Stat Hellscream's Cricket Cage Total
    Int 1409 1364 +45
    Crit 940 0 +940
    Haste 819 842 -23
    Spirit 0 1160 -1160
    Total Secondaries 1759 2002 -243

    So the two rows to look at are the Int and Total Secondaries rows. You can see Hellscream's has more int, but is actually down 243 secondaries overall. Even if 1 Int = 2x Secondary (which it doesn't), it would still be below the Cricket Cage.

    Therefore, Cricket Cage should be the better DPS option.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-08-18 at 06:04 AM.

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