[Balance] T16H BiS List

[Aboubacar]

If you insist on manually entering a haste / hit breakpoint into reforgelite rather than using askmrrobot...

Cmode/Proving - 463 - 3.0267
528- 5.5462
536 - 5.9754
540 - 6.2023
548 - 6.6823
553 - 7.0009
561 - 7.5427
559 - 7.4035
567 - 7.9764
566 - 7.9024
574 - 8.5140
572 - 8.3568
580 - 9.0035

Select which Ilvl of the trinket and find the corresponding %, and subtract that % from 1. So for example, assuming you have the heroic warforged version you would do 1 - 0.090035 which gives you 0.909965. Then multiply that number by the haste or hit breakpoint you wish to hit. So once again us ing the H-WF version and searching for the 10296 gcd cap you would do 0.909965*10296 which gives you 9368.99964, or 9369. The number that you get from that should be the number you input on reforgelite. Hopefully my math is correct :P

Why would anyone use reforgelite rofl? It doesn't take gems and enchants into account so you'll never get the most ideal setup...

[Sepe]

Some people insist on using it, I was just giving them the ability to do so. Obviously since askmrrobot takes more than just reforging alone into account it gives you a more ideal setup. Some people just like knowing the numbers I guess :P

[huth]

Why would anyone use reforgelite rofl? It doesn't take gems and enchants into account so you'll never get the most ideal setup...

When was the last time you tried it? It certainly has taken those into account for the entirety of MoP.

[Aboubacar]

When was the last time you tried it? It certainly has taken those into account for the entirety of MoP.

No, it never has recommended better gem + enchanting solutions in addition to reforging, hence the name reforgelite. Imo askmrrobot has really improved this expansion, as long as you edit the stat weights properly (in this case haste BP) you will get the absolute best gear setup possible rather than hackjobbing it and only changing your reforges.

I haven't used it for other specializations, but it would be better than reforgelite in that case as well, as long as you set it up properly, which still takes less time than doing it in your head/changing things manually.

[Fleuria]

No, it never has recommended better gem + enchanting solutions in addition to reforging, hence the name reforgelite. Imo askmrrobot has really improved this expansion, as long as you edit the stat weights properly (in this case haste BP) you will get the absolute best gear setup possible rather than hackjobbing it and only changing your reforges.

I haven't used it for other specializations, but it would be better than reforgelite in that case as well, as long as you set it up properly, which still takes less time than doing it in your head/changing things manually.

pretty much this, amr is by far the best tool to reforge / gem / enchant your gear.

[Lilija]

If you really wanted hit cap, it's easily attained by swapping a crit gem for crit/spr.

Was really hoping for that answer because I absolutly lack time to test for another gear set up myself ^^

[Stommped]

No, it never has recommended better gem + enchanting solutions in addition to reforging, hence the name reforgelite. Imo askmrrobot has really improved this expansion, as long as you edit the stat weights properly (in this case haste BP) you will get the absolute best gear setup possible rather than hackjobbing it and only changing your reforges.

I haven't used it for other specializations, but it would be better than reforgelite in that case as well, as long as you set it up properly, which still takes less time than doing it in your head/changing things manually.

Well enchanting is certainly out of the question, the only possible enchant you would ever change would be gloves, but in all liklihood changing that enchant is only going to lead to a 170 mastery --> haste elsewhere on your gear, unless it leads to a 170 crit --> haste which it means it is negatively effecting your dps.

Gemming is the most simple thing ever as long as you pay attention to your personal stat weights in WC. Smooth's in yellows, misty's in blue (unless the socket bonus sucks then smooth again), and crafty's or potent's in red depending on your secondary stat weights compared to int as well as the spirit on your gear. We are gemming to maximize our crit, while not sacrificing too much intellect to do so, period. At current gear levels you should never be gemming haste or pure intellect so the only possible gem you would change would be dropping a crit gem for mastery. I do realize that there is a point in our current gear where Mastery is showing slightly more valuable than Crit, but I hardly think it's worth gemming around.

It's not a complicated process, there shouldn't be a need for AMR to tell which gems to use because it should be immediately obvious. Reforgelite works perfect because I know as long as I am as close to 10296 haste and 15% hit as possible first and foremost, it will take my personal stat weights (WC!) after those caps are reached to yield the highest possible results.

[huth]

No, it never has recommended better gem + enchanting solutions in addition to reforging, hence the name reforgelite. Imo askmrrobot has really improved this expansion, as long as you edit the stat weights properly (in this case haste BP) you will get the absolute best gear setup possible rather than hackjobbing it and only changing your reforges.

I haven't used it for other specializations, but it would be better than reforgelite in that case as well, as long as you set it up properly, which still takes less time than doing it in your head/changing things manually.

It doesn't change them. It does take them into account. It works perfectly fine for its stated purpose.

AMR pretty much just adds bloat as far as i am concerned, since there's barely any options for gems or enchants anyway.

[Aboubacar]

Well enchanting is certainly out of the question, the only possible enchant you would ever change would be gloves, but in all liklihood changing that enchant is only going to lead to a 170 mastery --> haste elsewhere on your gear, unless it leads to a 170 crit --> haste which it means it is negatively effecting your dps.

Gemming is the most simple thing ever as long as you pay attention to your personal stat weights in WC. Smooth's in yellows, misty's in blue (unless the socket bonus sucks then smooth again), and crafty's or potent's in red depending on your secondary stat weights compared to int as well as the spirit on your gear. We are gemming to maximize our crit, while not sacrificing too much intellect to do so, period. At current gear levels you should never be gemming haste or pure intellect so the only possible gem you would change would be dropping a crit gem for mastery. I do realize that there is a point in our current gear where Mastery is showing slightly more valuable than Crit, but I hardly think it's worth gemming around.

It's not a complicated process, there shouldn't be a need for AMR to tell which gems to use because it should be immediately obvious. Reforgelite works perfect because I know as long as I am as close to 10296 haste and 15% hit as possible first and foremost, it will take my personal stat weights (WC!) after those caps are reached to yield the highest possible results.

My point is that sometimes the difference between most optimal and not is a reckless gem and dropping a 60 int bonus or something. If you can do that in your head or going off reforgelite, that's great, but I'm not taking my chances in missing a gear setup solution. It also takes 10seconds to put ur char in and set the soft haste cap, so I'm not sure why you'd want to risk gimping yourself, unless you're certain you can do it faster.

yes, it's often worth adjusting gemming slightly to get more crit from reforging or closer to perfect haste soft cap/hit cap. Reforgelite will never show you that.

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It doesn't change them. It does take them into account. It works perfectly fine for its stated purpose.

AMR pretty much just adds bloat as far as i am concerned, since there's barely any options for gems or enchants anyway.

Okay if that's how you feel about min/maxing that's your preference at this point, everyone can choose what they want. There is no bloat, actually far less since reforgelite uses ~5mb RAM or something and AMR is a website.

[huth]

Okay if that's how you feel about min/maxing that's your preference at this point, everyone can choose what they want. There is no bloat, actually far less since reforgelite uses ~5mb RAM or something and AMR is a website.

Having to run a browser and switch tasks makes it harder to use, not easier. I also don't have to manually reforge every item with ReforgeLite.

[Deleted]

AMR pretty much just adds bloat as far as i am concerned, since there's barely any options for gems or enchants anyway.

By switching between Smooth and Quick Sunstones as well as Crafty, Potent and Reckless Vermilion Onyxes you can come closer to the Hit and Haste caps than by reforging alone (also, sometimes certain weak socket bonuses - namely 60 Spirit - aren't worth it and you're better off using a yellow gem in that socket).

[Stommped]

By switching between Smooth and Quick Sunstones as well as Crafty, Potent and Reckless Vermilion Onyxes you can come closer to the Hit and Haste caps than by reforging alone (also, sometimes certain weak socket bonuses - namely 60 Spirit - aren't worth it and you're better off using a yellow gem in that socket).

As I said though, it's almost never correct to gem haste. You are sacrificing 100% crit doing it this way when if you were to get there by reforging, you would ideally be getting there by reforging off some crit and some mastery. Either way you should be able to get very close to the cap with all the reforge possibilities.

[huth]

You pretty much only gem haste when you can't reach the cap through reforging alone. You only ignore socket bonuses if you can't make use of them.

It's not exactly rocket surgery. I certainly have no need for some sort of tool to "calculate" that. Reforging optimization on the other hand is quite a bit more complex.

[Juvencus]

rocket surgery

I lol'd :P

I don't really like to change gems for every single reforging I do. I'd rather have reforging work for me.

[Aboubacar]

You pretty much only gem haste when you can't reach the cap through reforging alone. You only ignore socket bonuses if you can't make use of them.

It's not exactly rocket surgery. I certainly have no need for some sort of tool to "calculate" that. Reforging optimization on the other hand is quite a bit more complex.

No, you're wrong. As I said before, if you're able to gain more from a reforge by gemming haste somewhere overall becomes a gain. I really doubt you can go over every possible solution in your head yourself to find the most optimal one. And if you don't like to get the most out of your gear, that's you sacrifice, but it's just plain stupid to punish your raid for your laziness because you couldn't open up a website to see if it had a better gearing solution.

Don't believe me? Stop being lazy and use the tool yourself

For example If you put Juvencus' character into it he stands to gain 197 mastery and 127 crit, as well as dropping some of his excess hit, down to exact cap.

If all you really need is reforges, link your armory Huth, so we can see how well that worked out for you...

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As I said though, it's almost never correct to gem haste. You are sacrificing 100% crit doing it this way when if you were to get there by reforging, you would ideally be getting there by reforging off some crit and some mastery. Either way you should be able to get very close to the cap with all the reforge possibilities.

It is often correct to gem some haste, usually a mixed gem, or some expertise, especially in between tiers, like we are now, in order to gain more by allowing you to reforge more crit for instance. Reforgelite won't tell you that. Again, this is something that literally takes less than a minute. Just plain being lazy and not checking it to see if it has a better setup is stupid to run suboptimally, just because people couldn't be bothered to check a website.

[Fleuria]

As I said though, it's almost never correct to gem haste. You are sacrificing 100% crit doing it this way when if you were to get there by reforging, you would ideally be getting there by reforging off some crit and some mastery. Either way you should be able to get very close to the cap with all the reforge possibilities.

Just chucked your gear into amr, you are horribly optimized to say the least. You can drop 3% mastery for almost 1.2k int, gain crit and drop some haste which is far better than your "reforgelite" option sure you have to spend some gold but I guess min/maxing and all but if you want to be sub optimal sure go ahead.

Don't get why people are slating amr when its by far the best optimization tool around at the moment.

[Juvencus]

No, you're wrong. As I said before, if you're able to gain more from a reforge by gemming haste somewhere overall becomes a gain. I really doubt you can go over every possible solution in your head yourself to find the most optimal one. And if you don't like to get the most out of your gear, that's you sacrifice, but it's just plain stupid to punish your raid for your laziness because you couldn't open up a website to see if it had a better gearing solution.

Don't believe me? Stop being lazy and use the tool yourself

For example If you put Juvencus' character into it he stands to gain 197 mastery and 127 crit, as well as dropping some of his excess hit, down to exact cap.

If all you really need is reforges, link your armory Huth, so we can see how well that worked out for you...

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It is often correct to gem some haste, usually a mixed gem, or some expertise, especially in between tiers, like we are now, in order to gain more by allowing you to reforge more crit for instance. Reforgelite won't tell you that. Again, this is something that literally takes less than a minute. Just plain being lazy and not checking it to see if it has a better setup is stupid to run suboptimally, just because people couldn't be bothered to check a website.

I'm already familiar with AMR and I even have the addon, but I don't bother to spend the better invested in pots and flasks gold in order to change 5 gems for each little reforge I set my mind to do, i order to gain negligible amount of stats.

Btw I just checked and I don't see the same results.

[Aboubacar]

I'm already familiar with AMR and I even have the addon, but I don't bother to spend the better invested in pots and flasks gold in order to change 5 gems for each little reforge I set my mind to do, i order to gain negligible amount of stats.

Btw I just checked and I don't see the same results.

Yes, I can agree with you, if you don't have the extra few hundred gold (depending on server ofc) to do it, that's fine. I guess my point was more from a heroic raiding perspective, why not just open up the site and see the solution? It's probably going to be better. I mean it applies for everyone. If you don't have the gold just do reforges with reforgelite, but still check AMR's results to see if those changes are something you can afford to deal with.

But saying you can't be bothered, or thinking you can do it in your head better is what I didn't understand. I perceived some posters as wanting to be ignorant to other solutions.

[Stommped]

Just chucked your gear into amr, you are horribly optimized to say the least. You can drop 3% mastery for almost 1.2k int, gain crit and drop some haste which is far better than your "reforgelite" option sure you have to spend some gold but I guess min/maxing and all but if you want to be sub optimal sure go ahead.

Don't get why people are slating amr when its by far the best optimization tool around at the moment.

Considered I just bought a belt off BMAH last night and threw some gems in without checking wrathcalcs (including other items), yeah I wouldn't doubt that. Seriously you can check an item feed to see when items are obtained... AMR is using it's own personal stat weights, i.e. it is telling you to put potent gems in most red sockets which is why you see 1.2k int gain. Wrathcalcs overwhelmingly favored using Crafty gems in red sockets when I last updated my gear so I don't know what to tell you. But it's definitely possible that that has changed so I will have to check this weekend.

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No, you're wrong. As I said before, if you're able to gain more from a reforge by gemming haste somewhere overall becomes a gain. I really doubt you can go over every possible solution in your head yourself to find the most optimal one. And if you don't like to get the most out of your gear, that's you sacrifice, but it's just plain stupid to punish your raid for your laziness because you couldn't open up a website to see if it had a better gearing solution.

Don't believe me? Stop being lazy and use the tool yourself

For example If you put Juvencus' character into it he stands to gain 197 mastery and 127 crit, as well as dropping some of his excess hit, down to exact cap.

If all you really need is reforges, link your armory Huth, so we can see how well that worked out for you...

- - - Updated - - -



It is often correct to gem some haste, usually a mixed gem, or some expertise, especially in between tiers, like we are now, in order to gain more by allowing you to reforge more crit for instance. Reforgelite won't tell you that. Again, this is something that literally takes less than a minute. Just plain being lazy and not checking it to see if it has a better setup is stupid to run suboptimally, just because people couldn't be bothered to check a website.

You're missing the point, if reforging puts you at 10300 haste and 15.06% hit lets say, you are not wasting any stats. By doing this witout gemming any haste you are maximizing your crit, because reforging will use mastery and crit to get to 10300, as opposed to dropping only crit.

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The biggest problem I see with using AMR is the fact that it doesn't update stat weights. You can't just say "Ok optimize my gear using these weights" because if it ends up changing 10 gems/reforges lets say, your stat weights are going to change any time int/crit/haste/mastery go up or down. Say for instance you put in a crit at a weight of 4.0, it's going to tell you to optimize by throwing a smooth gem in every single socket, but the time you use that 6th or 7th smooth gem, that stat weight of crit has plummeted to somethign well below 4.0

Also I feel the need to remind you guys that the BIS list in the OP of this thread was optimized with Wrathcalcs, not AMR.

[Fleuria]

Considered I just bought a belt off BMAH last night and threw some gems in without checking wrathcalcs (including other items), yeah I wouldn't doubt that. Seriously you can check an item feed to see when items are obtained... AMR is using it's own personal stat weights, i.e. it is telling you to put potent gems in most red sockets which is why you see 1.2k int gain. Wrathcalcs overwhelmingly favored using Crafty gems in red sockets when I last updated my gear so I don't know what to tell you. But it's definitely possible that that has changed so I will have to check this weekend.

amr also favors crafty gems when needed if it can gain secondary stats some where else, thing is we aren't elemental shamans where one stat equals the other and when you are high in one stat the other gains value, so technically you don't particularly need your own personal stat weights as long as haste to cap > crit > mastery > haste over cap then you are going to always get the best possibly gear gain, it's your choice if you don't want to use amr that's fine but don't try and discredit it when its actually a very valuable tool now than it was.